Disposing of evidence

  • #21
Thanks, NP.

I edited my question because I, too, realized that it probably could've been brought up in the book if it was an area of concern for the R.'s.

But, I do know that there has been talk about the doll and the tape for years now---not by anyone close to the case, I mean as far as message boards and forums go. I'll see if I can find a link.
 
  • #22
Well, although I have found a multitude of sites discussing the fibers from the American Doll (Molly) on the duct tape, I haven't found anything that states that LE investigated it---again, though, it wouldn't be posted if they did.

I did find this. Sort of interesting. I've heard about this angle before, but always brushed it off. As of right now, it is making a lot of sense to me.

http://www.geocities.com/pinker44/

Where would the case stand today if Burke Ramsey murdered his sister JonBenet? Would it be in limbo? The case is so public it can't be closed to do so would make his guilt obvious and it can never be revealed he was responsible. The parents can't even be charged with the easily proven conspiracy as to do so would again reflect on Burke's involvement. Any legal action on Burke's behalf such as the Ramseys have carried out would end, as they all have, in secret settlements, again to protect his rights. They can never charge John and Patsy because to do so exposes Burke. Burke's rights to privacy eclipse any other in this case. The rights of juvenile criminals supercede those of their victims.



In the ensuing years since the murder an enhanced 911 tape suggests the brother was not asleep as the parents contend. When confronted the Ramseys were forced to publicly change the sequence of their son's entanglement. A sibling is more statistically likely to have harmed JonBenet than any other person, parent or stranger. Sibling abuse is believed more common than husband/wife domestic abuse. It is usually just swept under the rug and has no statistical base. It is socially acceptable for siblings to physically abuse siblings. Many sibling injuries would be assault in the eyes of the law if inflicted outside of the family. From broken limbs to black eyes, there are no laws to report this type of injury. The police are the last person anybody would think of calling when a parent shows up in the ER with a son needing his head stitched up from an attack by a brother. If a stranger were to do the same the police would be involved in an instant. Harm from sibling abuse is given a pass afforded no other injury.



Famed criminologist Dr Henry Lee's esteemed opinion; based on forensic science not emotion, is a domestic incident caused a mortal brain injury. The strangulation and un-kidnapping were staged to divert attention away from what really happened and protect the person responsible for the head trauma. The case will likely never be prosecuted. To this day Pam Paugh has never been adequately questioned about the items she removed. Fact remains there were unsourced tan cotton fibers found at the scene that descriptively match the tan cotton fibers of the doll's cloth torso. There was an unsourced piece of duct tape on JonBenet's mouth and the doll company trained employees to tell parents to apply duct tape if there was a problem brushing the hair. There were unsourced dark blue fibers found on JonBenet's body and her shirt. One of the dolls removed comes dressed in a skirt of visibly shedding navy wool. The Ramsey's claim they'd never seen that type of duct tape. The DA claims there were no matches to the unsourced fibers in the Ramsey possession so they are innocent. How could they be matched up if the Ramseys were allowed to remove them from the crime scene?

For whatever reason, this scenario of Burke fatally injuring JonBenet with the head injury (accidentally) and the parents staging a coverup to protect him, AND LE and the DA following suit seems more plausible than the Ramseys being guilty of the murder. If Burke did it, LE are legally bound to NOT disclose that information, or disclose information that would even lead people to believe that. In fact, the above theory really explains many unanswered questions in this case if you think about it.
 
  • #23
julianne said:
Well, although I have found a multitude of sites discussing the fibers from the American Doll (Molly) on the duct tape, I haven't found anything that states that LE investigated it---again, though, it wouldn't be posted if they did.

I did find this. Sort of interesting. I've heard about this angle before, but always brushed it off. As of right now, it is making a lot of sense to me.

http://www.geocities.com/pinker44/

Where would the case stand today if Burke Ramsey murdered his sister JonBenet? Would it be in limbo? The case is so public it can't be closed to do so would make his guilt obvious and it can never be revealed he was responsible. The parents can't even be charged with the easily proven conspiracy as to do so would again reflect on Burke's involvement. Any legal action on Burke's behalf such as the Ramseys have carried out would end, as they all have, in secret settlements, again to protect his rights. They can never charge John and Patsy because to do so exposes Burke. Burke's rights to privacy eclipse any other in this case. The rights of juvenile criminals supercede those of their victims.



In the ensuing years since the murder an enhanced 911 tape suggests the brother was not asleep as the parents contend. When confronted the Ramseys were forced to publicly change the sequence of their son's entanglement. A sibling is more statistically likely to have harmed JonBenet than any other person, parent or stranger. Sibling abuse is believed more common than husband/wife domestic abuse. It is usually just swept under the rug and has no statistical base. It is socially acceptable for siblings to physically abuse siblings. Many sibling injuries would be assault in the eyes of the law if inflicted outside of the family. From broken limbs to black eyes, there are no laws to report this type of injury. The police are the last person anybody would think of calling when a parent shows up in the ER with a son needing his head stitched up from an attack by a brother. If a stranger were to do the same the police would be involved in an instant. Harm from sibling abuse is given a pass afforded no other injury.



Famed criminologist Dr Henry Lee's esteemed opinion; based on forensic science not emotion, is a domestic incident caused a mortal brain injury. The strangulation and un-kidnapping were staged to divert attention away from what really happened and protect the person responsible for the head trauma. The case will likely never be prosecuted. To this day Pam Paugh has never been adequately questioned about the items she removed. Fact remains there were unsourced tan cotton fibers found at the scene that descriptively match the tan cotton fibers of the doll's cloth torso. There was an unsourced piece of duct tape on JonBenet's mouth and the doll company trained employees to tell parents to apply duct tape if there was a problem brushing the hair. There were unsourced dark blue fibers found on JonBenet's body and her shirt. One of the dolls removed comes dressed in a skirt of visibly shedding navy wool. The Ramsey's claim they'd never seen that type of duct tape. The DA claims there were no matches to the unsourced fibers in the Ramsey possession so they are innocent. How could they be matched up if the Ramseys were allowed to remove them from the crime scene?

For whatever reason, this scenario of Burke fatally injuring JonBenet with the head injury (accidentally) and the parents staging a coverup to protect him, AND LE and the DA following suit seems more plausible than the Ramseys being guilty of the murder. If Burke did it, LE are legally bound to NOT disclose that information, or disclose information that would even lead people to believe that. In fact, the above theory really explains many unanswered questions in this case if you think about it.
Hi Julianne, I don't think Berke had anything to do with it. I am going by what is heard on the phone - "What did you find and what can I do?" He was 9 at the time, I think. I don't see it happening at all. This is a very very violent death. Her skull was split open - 8 1/2 inches all the way to the rim of her nose. Berke did not do this thing.
 
  • #24
I have questions as to how well Burke would have withstood police and GJ questioning, if he was responsible for his baby sister's murder, and how well he'd have been able to cover up and remain silent all these years. I also don't see any evidence prior to or after the murder that indicates Burke is capable of such violence. The golf club incident was by all accounts an accident, and he may have resented the attention JonBenet got, but no one has ever said that Burke was deeply jealous of JonBenet enough to harm her or that he was able to get so angry with her that he could crack her skull like was done. I don't think he did it, and I don't think he knows for sure what really happened to her.
 
  • #25
Nuisanceposter said:
I have questions as to how well Burke would have withstood police and GJ questioning, if he was responsible for his baby sister's murder, and how well he'd have been able to cover up and remain silent all these years. I also don't see any evidence prior to or after the murder that indicates Burke is capable of such violence. The golf club incident was by all accounts an accident, and he may have resented the attention JonBenet got, but no one has ever said that Burke was deeply jealous of JonBenet enough to harm her or that he was able to get so angry with her that he could crack her skull like was done. I don't think he did it, and I don't think he knows for sure what really happened to her.
The same could be said for John and Patsy---there was no evidence prior or after the murder that indicates they were capable of such vilence either.
 
  • #26
julianne said:
The same could be said for John and Patsy---there was no evidence prior or after the murder that indicates they were capable of such vilence either.
Do you think he hit her over the head with the flashlight when they were in the kitchen? I think if Berke had hit her they would have called the police and tried to save her.
 
  • #27
julianne said:
The same could be said for John and Patsy---there was no evidence prior or after the murder that indicates they were capable of such vilence either.
Yes, but they were adults, and as such, much more experienced in deception and manipulation and dissembling to cover up than a nine year old boy would have been. I can believe both John and Patsy could withstand police questioning, but I don't believe Burke would have.

It also would have been easier for J&P to hide any domestic abuse situations from the public than it would have been for Burke - perhaps even teachers or other parents would have noticed he was violent or extremely jealous of his sister, because at that age, a child doesn't really realize as an adult would what behaviors he exhibits that indicate what he may be capable of, and who to hide it from and when. If Burke had had it in him to do to JonBenet what was done to her, he'd have shown signs of it before and after and would have been unable to hide it as adeptly as adults would be able to.

Does that make sense? J&P as adults would be able to deceive and cover up much better than a child of nine would be able to. I also think Burke would have been more likely to tell someone about what happened at some point than J&P would have been.
 
  • #28
Nuisanceposter said:
I. I don't think he did it, and I don't think he knows for sure what really happened to her.
I think he was in his room,and the R's didn't question him the next morning,just got him out of there asap,b/c they didn't want to remind him of anything he might have heard..let him think it was a dream?I also think they would have kept BR nearby if they were sure he knew anything.
I think that also says something about the time of the murder...if BR was already asleep,then JB likely was too,and maybe it was indeed bedwetting that triggered it.
 
  • #29
Nuisanceposter said:
As far as I can determine, none of these trace back to actual news sources. I question their accuracy. Does anyone have anything more definitive?
Alexi
 
  • #30
I think the reason the R's got BR out of the house the next morning so quickly was because JR had convinced PR that BR was the one who had 'accidentally' killed JBR. In the morning, after talking to BR, JR tells PR that BR doesn't remember any of it; he hints at some kind of trauma-induced amnesia (something PR, as a fan of the kind of novels Mary Higgins Clark writes, will find believable IMO). So the important thing is to get him away from the crime scene in case all the activity and bustle somehow trigger BR's 'guilty' memory; they especially don't want him there when JBR's body is found.

Now, PR is buying all this, but JR doesn't want BR there for his own reasons--whatever he decides to tell the police about the night before, he doesn't want BR to be in a position to say, "No, dad, that's not right. JBR was awake when we got home, remember?" etc. By the time BR actually is questioned, some months later, his contradictory statements are interpreted by the LE officer questioning him as evidence that the boy really doesn't remember anything of what happened that night!
 
  • #31
The same could be said for John and Patsy---there was no evidence prior or after the murder that indicates they were capable of such vilence either.

Not sure I'd agree with that...
 

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