DNA Doe Project - General Discussion #2

[JovanSrna]

The one thing that's throwing me that she might be ID'd is just the verbiage used, like her case "proved" to be difficult rather than "is proving"

They use the term "has been an extremely challenging case", which implies they're not quite done.

 

[djanga]

The DDP thinks this Jane Doe was adopted, her half-sister they located was adopted as well, they also identified Jane Doe’s mother:

Unsolved Jane Doe murder case reopened using rootless hair DNA | KTVU FOX 2

In 1985, a woman was found shot and killed in a field in Newark. To this day, no one knows who she is. Rootless hair DNA and drawings developed from pictures of her skull may provide the leads to help crack the case and ultimately find the killer.

www.ktvu.com

“However, that potential mother, Marian Marie Richardson, of a small town in Missouri near the Kansas border, is no longer living. Interviews with family members did not provide any connections to California.”

 

[djanga]

According to Carl’s post on the dedicated thread The Rock County Sheriff's office will release Rock County John Does identity during press conference they are holding today at 1:30 PM Wisconsin time

 

[djanga]

Article about Clinton/ Rock County John Doe identification. His name is Carl Junior Isaacs Jr.

Rock Co. body found in 1995 identified as Delavan man

On Monday, the Sheriff’s Office revealed for the first time that, thanks to DNA evidence, investigators are now confident they know who the individual was.

www.nbc15.com

 

[doggybag2355]

I’m surprised nothing was mentioned in the article about what took them so long to confirm the ID. I was hoping it would help put folks waiting on Harper JD’s minds at ease since people are starting to fall back on the “The cops are withholding information on purpose” excuse.

 

[djanga]

According to the facebook pin post, Hardin County John Doe is now in active research. However, on the website many of now active cases are still listed as pending or were not added to the website and not announced

 

[djanga]

For the spreadsheet: there is a gedmatch bag, so all cases have decrease in number of matches. In regards to new highest matches: it looks like Ventura County Jane Doe has a new highest match of 114 cM

 

[Tired Professor]

Article about Clinton/ Rock County John Doe identification. His name is Carl Junior Isaacs Jr.

Rock Co. body found in 1995 identified as Delavan man

On Monday, the Sheriff’s Office revealed for the first time that, thanks to DNA evidence, investigators are now confident they know who the individual was.

www.nbc15.com

Is he related to the guy with almost the same exact name who killed that family in Georgia in the 70’s? It looks like junior would have been conceived right after the murders…

 

[djanga]

Is he related to the guy with almost the same exact name who killed that family in Georgia in the 70’s? It looks like junior would have been conceived right after the murders…

Carl wrote on the dedicated thread, that thede teo have no apparent relationship

 

[Tired Professor]

Carl wrote on the dedicated thread, that thede teo have no apparent relationship

Awesome, thank you!

 

[Oakie]

Is he related to the guy with almost the same exact name who killed that family in Georgia in the 70’s? It looks like junior would have been conceived right after the murders…

Isaacs is a common name in the South.

 

[djanga]

Awesome, thank you!

Sorry, for a typo, “ these two” I mean. Also from the articles/interviews, both Carl’s Junior half-brother and father agreed to give DNA for comparison and as far as I know the notorious Carl Isaacs died in 2003, so cant be our guys father.

 

[djanga]

Sorry, for a typo, “ these two” I mean. Also from the articles/interviews, both Carl’s Junior half-brother and father agreed to give DNA for comparison and as far as I know the notorious Carl Isaacs died in 2003, so cant be our guys father.

My fault, actually his father is not alive, from the DDP website:

John Clinton Doe | DNA Doe Project

dnadoeproject.org

Usually, we are able to use the DNA of living relatives to confirm the identities of our Does, but in this case there was no one close enough to meet the standards set by the medical examiner,” said DNA Doe Project co-founded Margaret Press. “It’s a testament to the commitment of the Rock County team to definitively solve this case that they took the extraordinary step of exhuming Mr. Isaacs’ father in order to confirm the identification.”

 

[Tired Professor]

My fault, actually his father is not alive, from the DDP website:

John Clinton Doe | DNA Doe Project

dnadoeproject.org

Usually, we are able to use the DNA of living relatives to confirm the identities of our Does, but in this case there was no one close enough to meet the standards set by the medical examiner,” said DNA Doe Project co-founded Margaret Press. “It’s a testament to the commitment of the Rock County team to definitively solve this case that they took the extraordinary step of exhuming Mr. Isaacs’ father in order to confirm the identification.”

Oh wow. Thank you. No wonder it was awhile before his name was released.

 

[carbuff]

I’m surprised nothing was mentioned in the article about what took them so long to confirm the ID. I was hoping it would help put folks waiting on Harper JD’s minds at ease since people are starting to fall back on the “The cops are withholding information on purpose” excuse.

Some of the articles mention that most of the delay was in getting the final, conclusive ID. That seems to be a very common source of these kinds of delay. It takes time to find the relatives, time to get the DNA samples (especially when exhumation is involved), lab delays for both extraction and processing, delays in informing other near kin...

 

[ntt1]

Some of the articles mention that most of the delay was in getting the final, conclusive ID. That seems to be a very common source of these kinds of delay. It takes time to find the relatives, time to get the DNA samples (especially when exhumation is involved), lab delays for both extraction and processing, delays in informing other near kin...

I am pretty sure that a lot of ME offices require direct relatives' DNA for comparison (daughter, son, mother, father, full sibling) to confirm a match, by law. So in some cases where there are no surviving immediate relatives, as with JCD, I can see why it might take a while to confirm.

There can be a lot of bureaucracy involved with getting permits/warrants for exhumation, etc., then adding on the lab delays, sometimes months at a time, for comparison. I wonder what they'd do in a case if there were no living direct relatives, and both parents' remains were cremated.

 

[ntt1]

Also, not sure if these were posted

The Pima county cases seem like they're centered around Tucson.

Here is the list as of 6/16/2022, not sure if I saw it posted. Didn't check for threads here yet, though a warning that a few of the Ohio ones have some PM photos as their primary NAMUS pics.

• Roosevelt Phoenix Jane Doe 2004 (AZ) NamUs #UP2015 at lab for sequencing
• "Downtown Phoenix" John Doe 2004 (AZ) NamUs #UP2006 at lab for sequencing
• Pima Co John Doe 2019 (AZ) NamUs #UP59307 at lab for sequencing
• Pima Co John Doe 2019 (AZ) NamUs #UP56117 at lab for sequencing
• Pima Co Jane Doe 2010 (AZ) NamUs #UP9040 at lab for sequencing
• Franklin Co John Doe 2006 (OH) NamUs #UP263 at lab for sequencing
• Franklin Co John Doe 2007 (OH) NamUs #UP616 at lab for sequencing
• Sonoma Co John Doe 2004 (Jenner, CA) NamUs ?? at lab for extraction
• Sonoma Co John Doe 2001 (CA) NamUs ?? at lab for extraction
• Sonoma Co John Doe 1994 (Forestville, CA) NamUs ?? at lab for extraction
• Sonoma Co John Doe 1993 (Healdsburg, CA) NamUs #UP65610 at lab for extraction
• Sonoma Co John Doe 2002 (Sonoma, CA) NamUs #UP85570 at lab for extraction
• Eaton Co John Doe 2002 (MI) NamUs #UP5546 at lab for extraction
• Freeborn Co John Doe 2015 (MN) NamUs #UP13731 at lab for sequencing

 

[djanga]

I am pretty sure that a lot of ME offices require direct relatives' DNA for comparison (daughter, son, mother, father, full sibling) to confirm a match, by law. So in some cases where there are no surviving immediate relatives, as with JCD, I can see why it might take a while to confirm.

There can be a lot of bureaucracy involved with getting permits/warrants for exhumation, etc., then adding on the lab delays, sometimes months at a time, for comparison. I wonder what they'd do in a case if there were no living direct relatives, and both parents' remains were cremated.

Yes, there is a Jefferson County John Doe (Tennessee), the Namus profile was deleted around a year and a half ago, the Doe Network stated that his identity was confirmed using x-rays. I wonder if it is not enough for official identification. There was no official announcement from the LE and he is still listed as active case on the DDP website.

 

[ntt1]

Yes, there is a Jefferson County John Doe (Tennessee), the Namus profile was deleted around a year and a half ago, the Doe Network stated that his identity was confirmed using x-rays. I wonder if it is not enough for official identification. There was no official announcement from the LE and he is still listed as active case on the DDP website.

Have to think that there is some investigative reason for the witholding of that one, as well as Harper JD and the Philadelphia JD 2017. A bit strange through as all of those cases were reported in the local news, you'd think that at some point they would follow up on them.

X-rays I would assume would have to do with cross-referencing healed fractures, etc or dental records, but I'm not sure what the forensic standard for those are. I would assume that those comparisons are much cheaper and easier to do than DNA comparison in most cases, though could maybe be more ambiguous or inconclusive.

 

[djanga]

Have to think that there is some investigative reason for the witholding of that one, as well as Harper JD and the Philadelphia JD 2017. A bit strange through as all of those cases were reported in the local news, you'd think that at some point they would follow up on them.

X-rays I would assume would have to do with cross-referencing healed fractures, etc or dental records, but I'm not sure what the forensic standard for those are. I would assume that those comparisons are much cheaper and easier to do than DNA comparison in most cases, though could maybe be more ambiguous or inconclusive.

Yes, I think the same, all thee cases are violent crimes and maybe the law enforcement decided to try to solve them before announcing the identifications.

Also there is a rumor that Ramsey County Jane Doe might be identified, I don’t really know, but looking at her matches, I think she has good chances to be identified. I think her cause of death was not considered to be a homicide.