DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match.

[jaejae]

As people might guess I find this genetic genealogy and ethical questions around it an interesting subject although if I had a magic wand I would remove all the crimes on this board. The article above mentions that Dr. Barbara Rae-Venter is planning to 'join forces' with a private company it would appear to expand the use of genetic genealogy which of course most famously she used to identify Joseph James DeAngelo as a suspect in the Golden State Killer. This was partly achieved by her discovery that the suspect had Italian heritage from the DNA sample that Paul Holes obtained from a crime scene years after the original DNA was taken from the crime scene. Here are details of the company that the above article states that Dr. Rae-Venter intends to link up with and I am sure the Department Of Justice and the FBI will ensure this fits in with the new guidelines about the use of investigative genealogy by LE:

Gene By Gene - We are genetics! What's in YOUR genes?

Gene by Gene - Wikipedia

Family Tree DNA - Wikipedia

If any civil liberty groups, politicians who have concerns about the US Constitution, US Citizens with privacy concerns, innocence groups and public defenders read my posts I am addressing this to you please. The real issue with the use of genetic genealogy is the misidentification of offenders and therefore the accusing of innocent people of crimes they did not commit with supposed DNA hits which are not actually scientifically valid. It is my belief this happened in the Golden State Killer case where an innocent man in my opinion an innocent man has been held in custody for over a year with very serious implications on his health. Unless I am reading this wrong the attempt to link up with Family Tree DNA might be an attempt by Dr Barbara Rae-Venter to by pass GEDMATCH so to speak after their change to an OPT IN for their customer and gain access to further DNA profiles at Family Tree DNA where according to the information below has an OPT OUT policy for its customers rather than an OPT IN. This of course could lead in my opinion to further misidentifications with the subsequent serious impact on the health and lives of innocent men and their families wrongly accused:

The guidelines don’t address the qualifications of genealogists doing the analysis of the DNA results; there’s no recognition that genealogy has accepted standards and best practices or that all credentialed genealogists and most professional genealogists commit to abide by ethics codes that require informed consent from all DNA testers — which would require an opt-in system and not an opt-out system such as used by Family Tree DNA.

Justice Department issues DNA guidelines

Dr. Barbara Rae-Venter And Gene By Gene Join Forces To Shape The Future Of Investigative Genetic Genealogy

 

[jaejae]

It is my view the suffering of innocent men and their families has gone on long enough because of in my opinion the use of very unethical and unscientific processes by LE and genealogists they clearly do not understand and use so recklessly in my opinion. Here is a another report and as I have to any civil liberties groups and lawyers the main problem is they do not get the right person in many of the cases. Hence it is my view Anne-Marie Schubert has very likely three innocent men in her Sacramento Jail through her brand of investigative genetic genealogy alone and we can have a quiz on who actually committed the crimes :

The Messy Consequences of the Golden State Killer Case

 

[jaejae]

If any civil liberty groups, politicians who have concerns about the US Constitution, US Citizens with privacy concerns, innocence groups and public defenders read my posts I am addressing this to you please. The real issue with the use of genetic genealogy is the misidentification of offenders and therefore the accusing of innocent people of crimes they did not commit with supposed DNA hits which are not actually scientifically valid. It is my belief this happened in the Golden State Killer case where an innocent man in my opinion an innocent man has been held in custody for over a year with very serious implications on his health. Unless I am reading this wrong the attempt to link up with Family Tree DNA might be an attempt by Dr Barbara Rae-Venter to by pass GEDMATCH so to speak after their change to an OPT IN for their customer and gain access to further DNA profiles at Family Tree DNA where according to the information below has an OPT OUT policy for its customers rather than an OPT IN. This of course could lead in my opinion to further misidentifications with the subsequent serious impact on the health and lives of innocent men and their families wrongly accused:

The guidelines don’t address the qualifications of genealogists doing the analysis of the DNA results; there’s no recognition that genealogy has accepted standards and best practices or that all credentialed genealogists and most professional genealogists commit to abide by ethics codes that require informed consent from all DNA testers — which would require an opt-in system and not an opt-out system such as used by Family Tree DNA.

Justice Department issues DNA guidelines

Dr. Barbara Rae-Venter And Gene By Gene Join Forces To Shape The Future Of Investigative Genetic Genealogy

It is my opinion that the FBI were not involved in an official way in the process that lead to the identification or I would say misidentification of Mr Joseph DeAngelo as the offender in the Golden State Killer case. The FBI involvement in the case was through Paul Holes and was one agent and the reason for his involvement I may elaborate on another time. However as mentioned above my concern is if further access to databases is gained by genealogists like Barbara Rae-Venter there may be more mistakes and the associated suffering of innocent US Citizens and their families. Here is part of the article posted above that touches on the website Family Tree DNA:

Then, another genealogy site entered the story. In January 2019, BuzzFeed reported that FamilyTreeDNA had quietly changed its terms of service after it began working with the FBI—unbeknownst to any of its customers. Like GEDmatch, FamilyTreeDNA allows users who tested with other companies to upload their DNA profiles. (23andMe and AncestryDNA do not allow uploads of results from other companies, and they have resisted law-enforcement collaboration.)

The news angered some genealogists, not because they objected to law-enforcement use but because the company acted in secret. Over the next several months, FamilyTreeDNA changed its story about how it came to work with the FBI. In March, CEO Bennett Greenspan told Forensic Magazine that he himself did not know how long FBI had been using FamilyTreeDNA. He became aware, he claimed, when the company discovered strangely formatted uploads in late 2018. “When they first started using it? I don’t know,” he said. In August, after the initial furor had settled down, Greenspan admitted to The Wall Street Journal that he had been aware of the FBI’s uploads. In fact, after the bureau approached FamilyTreeDNA about the uploads, he had personally approved them in August 2018.

The Messy Consequences of the Golden State Killer Case

 

[jaejae]

It is my opinion that the FBI were not involved in an official way in the process that lead to the identification or I would say misidentification of Mr Joseph DeAngelo as the offender in the Golden State Killer case. The FBI involvement in the case was through Paul Holes and was one agent and the reason for his involvement I may elaborate on another time. However as mentioned above my concern is if further access to databases is gained by genealogists like Barbara Rae-Venter there may be more mistakes and the associated suffering of innocent US Citizens and their families. Here is part of the article posted above that touches on the website Family Tree DNA:

Then, another genealogy site entered the story. In January 2019, BuzzFeed reported that FamilyTreeDNA had quietly changed its terms of service after it began working with the FBI—unbeknownst to any of its customers. Like GEDmatch, FamilyTreeDNA allows users who tested with other companies to upload their DNA profiles. (23andMe and AncestryDNA do not allow uploads of results from other companies, and they have resisted law-enforcement collaboration.)

The news angered some genealogists, not because they objected to law-enforcement use but because the company acted in secret. Over the next several months, FamilyTreeDNA changed its story about how it came to work with the FBI. In March, CEO Bennett Greenspan told Forensic Magazine that he himself did not know how long FBI had been using FamilyTreeDNA. He became aware, he claimed, when the company discovered strangely formatted uploads in late 2018. “When they first started using it? I don’t know,” he said. In August, after the initial furor had settled down, Greenspan admitted to The Wall Street Journal that he had been aware of the FBI’s uploads. In fact, after the bureau approached FamilyTreeDNA about the uploads, he had personally approved them in August 2018.

The Messy Consequences of the Golden State Killer Case

Just one more thing from me on this subject at the moment. Again to the lawyers, concerned politicians, human rights and innocence groups, concerned individuals and this is it is my belief that the Washington State case was also a misidentification with a wrongful conviction after information about that case and the Golden State Killer was withheld from the defendants defence team:

This summer should have been a triumphant time for genealogy and forensics. It marked a year since a genealogist had helped law enforcement track down the man suspected of being the notorious Golden State Killer, and in the ensuing months genealogists had helped police identify suspects in more than 40 other cases. In June, such work led to its first conviction. In July, the first exoneration.

The Messy Consequences of the Golden State Killer Case

 

[cherrymeg]

Just one more thing from me on this subject at the moment. Again to the lawyers, concerned politicians, human rights and innocence groups, concerned individuals and this is it is my belief that the Washington State case was also a misidentification with a wrongful conviction after information about that case and the Golden State Killer was withheld from the defendants defence team:

This summer should have been a triumphant time for genealogy and forensics. It marked a year since a genealogist had helped law enforcement track down the man suspected of being the notorious Golden State Killer, and in the ensuing months genealogists had helped police identify suspects in more than 40 other cases. In June, such work led to its first conviction. In July, the first exoneration.

The Messy Consequences of the Golden State Killer Case

If you take a DNA test you can choose to keep your results from being given out to sources outside say the company you bought a test from. I checked the box that gave Ancestry permission to do whatever with my DNA. I haven't kept up with the Golden State case but don't they need evidence to support the DNA? I think DNA tests can be used to point to a killer or in their direction, and from there you have a person that you can look at as a suspect and go through their life.

 

[jaejae]

If you take a DNA test you can choose to keep your results from being given out to sources outside say the company you bought a test from. I checked the box that gave Ancestry permission to do whatever with my DNA. I haven't kept up with the Golden State case but don't they need evidence to support the DNA? I think DNA tests can be used to point to a killer or in their direction, and from there you have a person that you can look at as a suspect and go through their life.

Thanks for your interest as always. I will try and stick to my general policy that I do not always keep to of trying not discuss this with other posters because it can cause arguments but as it is you LE present it in that way that you find an offender and then use traditional methods but I do not think it works that way and the science is flawed and because the DNA is put through so many unscientific and subjective processes it makes no difference in many cases who the genealogists identify before the DNA tests in hotel lobbies etc. Anyway one day I might be shown to be right and I have always tried to do what I think is right and I think it is morally wrong that perhaps innocent people are in prison and their families suffering while the odd individual exploits their suffering in the most callous way. If I were you I might not get involved in this subject until all the facts come to light. Cheers

 

[cherrymeg]

Thanks for your interest as always. I will try and stick to my general policy that I do not always keep to of trying not discuss this with other posters because it can cause arguments but as it is you LE present it in that way that you find an offender and then use traditional methods but I do not think it works that way and the science is flawed and because the DNA is put through so many unscientific and subjective processes it makes no difference in many cases who the genealogists identify before the DNA tests in hotel lobbies etc. Anyway one day I might be shown to be right and I have always tried to do what I think is right and I think it is morally wrong that perhaps innocent people are in prison and their families suffering while the odd individual exploits their suffering in the most callous way. If I were you I might not get involved in this subject until all the facts come to light. Cheers

This is funny but informative.

 

[jaejae]

This is funny but informative.

You are right interesting and informative while being funny. I would like to say again I am in favour of LE protecting people including myself and I want criminals to be caught and the victims and relatives of victims to get justice and answers.

 

[cherrymeg]

@jaejae at the 9:01 mark it starts with fingerprints and goes to DNA by about 10 minutes in.

 

[jaejae]

@jaejae at the 9:01 mark it starts with fingerprints and goes to DNA by about 10 minutes in.

Thanks. I am not saying all forensic science is bad but it is my view that LE do not understand genetic genealogy and they way they have used it is very unethical and unscientific and have therefore lead to serious mistakes. I want to say again I am in favour of good forensic science catching the right offenders and these crime cases are not easy to deal with. I am also in favour of justice for crime victims and see you have a particular interest in the Springfield Three case and that is one I have studied

 

[cherrymeg]

Thanks. I am not saying all forensic science is bad but it is my view that LE do not understand genetic genealogy and they way they have used it is very unethical and unscientific and have therefore lead to serious mistakes. I want to say again I am in favour of good forensic science catching the right offenders and these crime cases are not easy to deal with. I am also in favour of justice for crime victims and see you have a particular interest in the Springfield Three case and that is one I have studied

DNA can clear people of a crime. Those home tests can help identify Jane and John Does potentially. The Golden State Killer confuses me without the science. He seemed to have several names (original night stalker, really? lol). I wasn't sure if one person was responsible for all the crimes or if they lumped similar crimes together.
I wish they could solve the Springfield Three case.

 

[cherrymeg]

Thanks. I am not saying all forensic science is bad but it is my view that LE do not understand genetic genealogy and they way they have used it is very unethical and unscientific and have therefore lead to serious mistakes. I want to say again I am in favour of good forensic science catching the right offenders and these crime cases are not easy to deal with. I am also in favour of justice for crime victims and see you have a particular interest in the Springfield Three case and that is one I have studied

Do you have any theories on the springfield three?

 

[jaejae]

DNA can clear people of a crime. Those home tests can help identify Jane and John Does potentially. The Golden State Killer confuses me without the science. He seemed to have several names (original night stalker, really? lol). I wasn't sure if one person was responsible for all the crimes or if they lumped similar crimes together.
I wish they could solve the Springfield Three case.

It is a good thing of course if they can identify Jane and John Does in a ethical way. Identifying offenders is a different thing and it is my opinion that the genealogists have no right to make a mistake because of what I consider to be the unethical procedures they use. I mainly call him EAR/ONS although I have nothing against the term Golden State Killer. When the true scale of his crimes come out I think people will struggle to believe it and I call him the real life Michael Myers. With the Springfield Three case it is amazing in a terrible way that three adults disappeared like that. It is a very sad case and might be difficult to get a conclusive answer but as usual I have my suspect in that case and it would be the offender know as the I70 Killer. Thanks

 

[cherrymeg]

It is a good thing of course if they can identify Jane and John Does in a ethical way. Identifying offenders is a different thing and it is my opinion that the genealogists have no right to make a mistake because of what I consider to be the unethical procedures they use. I mainly call him EAR/ONS although I have nothing against the term Golden State Killer. When the true scale of his crimes come out I think people will struggle to believe it and I call him the real life Michael Myers. With the Springfield Three case it is amazing in a terrible way that three adults disappeared like that. It is a very sad case and might be difficult to get a conclusive answer but as usual I have my suspect in that case and it would be the offender know as the I70 Killer. Thanks

Using DNA to link missing people with UID people or give a person back their identity wouldn't deal with the same ethical issues. It wouldn't go through the same branch of LE as criminals and it might not even be LE as much as a database for this type of thing. Anytime you submit DNA it's potentially fair game. Using a familiar match to convict someone is different than identifying a Jane/John Doe. Family members of missing people have been submitting DNA to Namus, using commercial DNA testing wouldn't be much different than finding a lost relative and it would help return UID people to their families.

 

[jaejae]

If any civil liberty groups, politicians who have concerns about the US Constitution, US Citizens with privacy concerns, innocence groups and public defenders read my posts I am addressing this to you please. The real issue with the use of genetic genealogy is the misidentification of offenders and therefore the accusing of innocent people of crimes they did not commit with supposed DNA hits which are not actually scientifically valid. It is my belief this happened in the Golden State Killer case where an innocent man in my opinion an innocent man has been held in custody for over a year with very serious implications on his health. Unless I am reading this wrong the attempt to link up with Family Tree DNA might be an attempt by Dr Barbara Rae-Venter to by pass GEDMATCH so to speak after their change to an OPT IN for their customer and gain access to further DNA profiles at Family Tree DNA where according to the information below has an OPT OUT policy for its customers rather than an OPT IN. This of course could lead in my opinion to further misidentifications with the subsequent serious impact on the health and lives of innocent men and their families wrongly accused:

The guidelines don’t address the qualifications of genealogists doing the analysis of the DNA results; there’s no recognition that genealogy has accepted standards and best practices or that all credentialed genealogists and most professional genealogists commit to abide by ethics codes that require informed consent from all DNA testers — which would require an opt-in system and not an opt-out system such as used by Family Tree DNA.

Justice Department issues DNA guidelines

Dr. Barbara Rae-Venter And Gene By Gene Join Forces To Shape The Future Of Investigative Genetic Genealogy

Here is some more information about Dr. Barbara Rae-Venter's new role. I am a layman and not a genetic genealogist expert although I do have a high level history qualification but it sounds to me if her new role will be similar to that of CeCe Moore's at ParaBon Labs:

HOUSTON, Sept. 27, 2019 — Genetic genealogist Dr. Barbara Rae-Venter, recognized for her groundbreaking work in the Golden State Killer case, named one of Time’s 100 most influential people of 2019, and Nature’s 10 people who mattered in science in 2018, has been named Director of Gene By Gene’s newly formed Investigative Genetic Genealogy Unit.

Dr. Barbara Rae-Venter and Gene By Gene Join Forces to Shape the Future of Investigative Genetic Genealogy

 

[jaejae]

Here is Paul Holes recent speech at a scientific conference. In my opinion this situation is no longer good enough with innocent people wrongly being accused of crimes they did not commit. Paul Holes genealogy in my opinion has actually accused an innocent man and the actual offender was Ralph Leon Jackson. The FBI know this but so far in my opinion an innocent man Joseph DeAngelo has been suffering for his crimes:

 

[jaejae]

Here is Paul Holes recent speech at a scientific conference. In this opinion this situation is no longer good enough with innocent people wrongly being accused of crimes they did not commit. Paul Holes genealogy in my opinion has actually accused an innocent man and the actual offender was Ralph Leon Jackson. The FBI know this but so far in my opinion an innocent man Joseph DeAngelo has been suffering for his crimes:

Paul Holes has made this case personal and in the most unprofessional way he has taken this out on an innocent man and his family after the wrongful arrest of Mr DeAngelo. Someone I do not know who released a photo of Mr DeAngelo's interrogation to a victims family member and of course this was in my opinion of an innocent mans suffering. I again urge innocent groups, politicians, human rights groups to look at the treatment of Mr DeAngelo and what I believe are other innocent men wrongly accused by a flawed and unethical genealogy science that is used by genealogists and LE who do not understand it. So in the above presentation with have Paul Holes in my view stood in front of photos of an innocent man and again wrongly accusing him of the crimes. Let's say he is the actual offender again in my opinion Paul Holes has had no interest in any proper legal procedure with his book Evil Has A Name conclusively naming the offender yet what makes it worse in my view it is not even the right offender. Again in my view Mr DeAngelo has had his human and constitutional rights as a US Citizen violated and therefore please I again I ask those groups in the US that have concerns about this to look into it including the Governor of California.

 

[jaejae]

Here a recent report about DNA collection. I will post it here because I think it has relevance here with the use of genetic genealogy and access to databases by genealogists like CeCe Moore and Barbara-Rae Venter. The US is not even my country so it is not a political statement just an article about DNA genetic genealogy is about DNA:

US to collect DNA of all undocumented migrants

 

[Skully]

Perhaps there could be a separate thread to discuss Mr DeAngelo and concerns about DNA and Genealogy.

 

[jaejae]

Perhaps there could be a separate thread to discuss Mr DeAngelo and concerns about DNA and Genealogy.

Websleuths will decide if necessary but I think this is the right thread as all the cases where a suspect has been identified were inspired by the arrest of Mr DeAngelo. I claim the right to make my sincere and heart felt views under the US First Amendment. Also if the science of genetic genealogy is so solid it can withstand one poster questioning the science, ethics and validity of Mr DeAngelo as a suspect. All those qualifications and all those scientists and just me Thanks for your suggestion and if there is a thread for that subject fair enough.