Dna

[southerngal]

So how much has she "raked in", and how can you guarantee that she doesn't need to keep begging for it? How much do the current level of DNA tests run into, in your estimate? And how much has the supporters fund garnered?

Facts and figures, please. Assertions with no evidence are not at all convincing from a non-supporter source, (or indeed any source). No disrepect intended, but you do have an obvious bias.

In 2008 or 2009, when I was a supporter it was over a million dollars and in that same time frame, IF memory serves me correct, the testing ran around 2500-2800. It has probably gone up some but I don't believe it would be some astronomical amount. I think I read where it was about $140,000 for testing in the past few years. I think I have the articles links saved at the house and will post it when I get there.

 

[southerngal]

I believe Bode is the laboratory used. Here is their forensic price list:

http://www.bodetech.com/forensic-solutions/ordering-information/forensic-services-price-list/

Thanks, saved me from looking it up, has gone up a bit.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Yes, it has. Remember, some of those costs (most of them) are per item or per test. In other words, if they want to test an item against three different DNA samples, that will be three different charges. So, to have STR DNA testing done on one hair against all six samples (the WM3 and the victims) would cost over $6500. That's not cheap.

And the DNA testing, although the greatest expense, is only part of why the money is needed. Experts who testify have to have their expenses paid. Although most of them donate their time and expertise, they do need to be reimbursed for travel expenses and the like. There's private investigators to be paid, too. I don't believe Lorri is "raking it in" at all.

 

[Jaxson]

I don't think an attack on Lorri has anything to do with the innocence of the WM3. Just another distraction from the real issue. I don't really care who donates what to whom or what they do with it. I care that justice be served.

 

[justthinkin]

IMO, with the very deep pocketed friends the WM3 have, no supporter who is struggling in the least little bit needs to worry about the WM3 having enough money for their defense.

I personally think it's a sham to be asking the general public for help when the likes of Vedder, Depp, Maines, Rollins, Osborne, etc. are on board.

Let Lori Davis ask her deep pocketed friends for money. Until she makes a full disclosure of where any money goes that's sent to her directly, people are just asking for disappointment. Get all the facts before you donate. If you don't, then it's your own fault if monies you thought were going one place wind up in another or in fact in Lori Davis's own pockets.

 

[southerngal]

http://wm3ip.blogspot.com/

Supporters of the three teens convicted in the brutal 1993 slayings of three West Memphis boy say they've raised more than $1 million for their court appeals from rock star donors and the Internet-savvy.

But a longtime attorney for Jason Baldwin says he and those defending Jessie Misskelley haven't seen any of the recent large donations that have come into the trust and legal defense funds of death-row inmate Damien Echols. Meanwhile, other supporters of the men known to sympathizers as the "West Memphis Three" are setting up a nonprofit corporation to funnel donations equally to the three.

"What we're talking about here is simple and uncontroversial _ it's about accountability and it's about transparency," said Kelly Duda of a new group called The West Memphis Three Innocence Project. "This is about making sure there are sufficient funds to support all three men, not just one."

Even farther down the page:

The division focuses on money -- more than $1 million -- raised to pay for new DNA testing of evidence linked to the 1993 murders of three 8-year-old boys.

Those tests have raised questions about the case and have given new life to claims by convicted killers Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley that they've been wrongfully imprisoned the past 15 years.
Nonetheless, a splinter group of West Memphis Three supporters has launched a rival fund-raising organization, saying it is fed up with the handling of a legal defense fund that's attracted large donations from wealthy Hollywood actors and musicians along with smaller gifts from citizens across the country.

Leaders of the new organization contend there's been no accounting of defense funds raised so far and that the money hasn't been evenly split among the three defendants.

I don't know if we can post links from another group here but if we can I can show you another article posted on the blackboard that states the same... more than a million.

http://www.freewebs.com/boohiss13/thewm3defensefund.htm
Just in the past 2 years approximately $120,000-$140,000 had to be paid out for DNA testing.

The total of over a million was before some of the celebrities even jumped on board. I just don't think the fund is as poor as she claims and evidently it wasn't and she keeps asking for more and more. I can see where this matters not to some of you but I was one of those sending in money thinking they had nothing, I believe the plea at the time was "all testing would stop and they would remain in jail without more donations" and then all this came out.

 

[southerngal]

Yes, it has. Remember, some of those costs (most of them) are per item or per test. In other words, if they want to test an item against three different DNA samples, that will be three different charges. So, to have STR DNA testing done on one hair against all six samples (the WM3 and the victims) would cost over $6500. That's not cheap.

And the DNA testing, although the greatest expense, is only part of why the money is needed. Experts who testify have to have their expenses paid. Although most of them donate their time and expertise, they do need to be reimbursed for travel expenses and the like. There's private investigators to be paid, too. I don't believe Lorri is "raking it in" at all.

mtDNA sequencing is now 3200, I was thinking on the high end of around 2600-2800,so yes,they all did go up. I respect that you don't agree, you have your opinion and I have mine and I am not here to try and change anyone's mind or convince anyone of anything by what I say. I just remember when all the hoopla was going on about JB and JM not getting any money and I stated what I thought was the reason for the updates or press releases as I call them.

OT- do you know why the defense didn't use the sample that Terry Hobbs gave in 1994 instead of going for the cigarette butt that was gathered? I had asked this question a few times but never got an answer.

 

[Cappuccino]

I don't think an attack on Lorri has anything to do with the innocence of the WM3. Just another distraction from the real issue. I don't really care who donates what to whom or what they do with it. I care that justice be served.

Exactly!!

The non-supporters seem to think that if they can convince you Lorri wotsername is a money grabbing *****, they will automatically have convinced you that the West Memphis 3 are guilty of murder. Sorry, but that doesn't add up.

It also smacks of deliberate manipulation - ie, people who are more worried about making sure no more money is available for DNA tests than they are about finding the truth. Anybody who was truly convinced of the WM3's guilt would be pushing for more testing, because they would be sure that DNA tests would eventually provide evidence of the three men at the crime scene.

To such a person, the fact that the WM3's supporters are willing to pay for all this would be a welcome bonus, but I never met a non who saw things that way. Pretending that Stevie Branch's blood was found on Damien's pendant is a more common approach.

 

[iluvmua]

Exactly!!

The non-supporters seem to think that if they can convince you Lorri wotsername is a money grabbing *****, they will automatically have convinced you that the West Memphis 3 are guilty of murder. Sorry, but that doesn't add up.

It also smacks of deliberate manipulation - ie, people who are more worried about making sure no more money is available for DNA tests than they are about finding the truth. Anybody who was truly convinced of the WM3's guilt would be pushing for more testing, because they would be sure that DNA tests would eventually provide evidence of the three men at the crime scene.

To such a person, the fact that the WM3's supporters are willing to pay for all this would be a welcome bonus, but I never met a non who saw things that way. Pretending that Stevie Branch's blood was found on Damien's pendant is a more common approach.

It WAS found on that pendent....... You would know that if you read the facts.

Mike Allen says that Jessie is still confessing to this day.......

 

[Compassionate Reader]

southerngal,

Since the WMPD collected that sample and have never, well at least not yet anyway, considered TH a suspect, I believe that he had the right to refuse to let the defense use the sample. I could be wrong, but I believe that's the simple answer to your question. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that, after the hearing, TH's DNA just might be collected again and tested or the existing sample (if the WMPD hasn't lost it) tested. Then, if the WMPD has a pair, TH will be a suspect, will be investigated, will be tried, and will finally be where he should have been since 1994 - in prison.

One thing you didn't mention about that article is that it's over three years old. I doubt that you could find a similar article now. And, as Cappuccino was saying, what is done with the money raised really has nothing to do with the innocence of the WM3. I believe most supporters now feel that the money is being equally distributed, especially since the upcoming evidentiary hearing is to be joint (unless Jessie's attorney has an unresolvable conflict).



iluvmua,

ALL THAT WAS DISCOVERED FROM THE TESTING WITH THE PENDANT WAS BLOOD TYPE. SINCE MICHAEL AND JESSIE HAVE THE SAME TYPE (and that type is shared with thousands of other people) AND STEVIE AND JASON HAVE THE SAME TYPE (also shared with thousands of others), THE TESTING WAS REALLY NOT THAT HELPFUL. Although the testing didn't exclude Jessie and Jason, it was certainly not a "smoking gun" or anything like that!

I had believed that the State was retesting that sample in its "secret" testing, but I have since learned that the sample, because of its small size, was destroyed in the initial testing. I don't really know what was tested, and, since the testing was done well before Judge Laser issued the gag order, I wonder why the State didn't reveal the results (if they were incriminatory to the WM3) to counter all of the information the defense was releasing. Failure to do so makes it appear that the State's testing, like that being conducted by the defense, continues to exclude the WM3.

As to the RUMOR that Jessie is still "confessing" to Allen, that's all it is - rumor fueled IMO by the desperation of those who want to delay justice and keep the WM3 unjustly imprisoned. Again, if that were true, the State would have released some of these statements long ago. Since the initial reports of the Hobbs and Jacoby hairs, the State of Arkansas and the WMPD have looked like back-water to the rest of the country. If they had anything that could lessen the image damage, they would have revealed it. Period.

 

[justthinkin]

Exactly!!

The non-supporters seem to think that if they can convince you Lorri wotsername is a money grabbing *****, they will automatically have convinced you that the West Memphis 3 are guilty of murder. Sorry, but that doesn't add up.

It also smacks of deliberate manipulation - ie, people who are more worried about making sure no more money is available for DNA tests than they are about finding the truth. Anybody who was truly convinced of the WM3's guilt would be pushing for more testing, because they would be sure that DNA tests would eventually provide evidence of the three men at the crime scene.

To such a person, the fact that the WM3's supporters are willing to pay for all this would be a welcome bonus, but I never met a non who saw things that way. Pretending that Stevie Branch's blood was found on Damien's pendant is a more common approach.[/QUOT

You've got it wrong. I think nons feel that if supporters want to send money, they should be sure and make their check out to the defense fund, and not pay to the order of Lori Davis.

I am one non who says test everything. I've said that in the past, and I certainly hope the state will do some testing of its own, particularly regarding the older tests that did not exclude Damien Echols.

I do believe the WM3 are guilty, but if cumulative physical evidence proves otherwise, then thats the direction I'd have to go with. I've just seen nothing compelling at this point to make me change my mind. And if I did change my mind it would be based on what comes out through the courts, and not anything that some fanatic supporter has to say, least of all, anyone with ties to the Blackboard.

I didn't come to Websleuths from any other crime board or any board that exists only because of the WM3 case. The first I learned about this case was here at Websleuths. I didn't start out thinking the WM3 were guilty. That's the conclusion I came to from reading the case documents and trial transcripts at Callahans 8K, and the lies Damien Echols has told since he's been incarcerated.

Furthermore, I don't know a single person who has anything to do with this case. I don't know any nons personally or any supporters personally.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

jt,

Like you, I have no personal connection to anyone in this case. I just want to see justice done, and, IMO, justice involves freeing the WM3 and putting the real killer behind bars.

I have always respected you because you, unlike so many other nons, don't try to use foul language and ad hominem attacks in a vain attempt to prove your point. I also respect this board because it is the only one on the Internet where I have found civil discussion from both sides of this emotionally-charged issue. Non boards contain atrocious language and ban supporters at the drop of the hat. Supporter boards, unfortunately, also ban nons. However, I haven't found the language to be nearly as bad.

I'm happy to see that you will still consider the possibility of innocence because most of the nons with whom I have interacted will not. As I have stated before, if new evidence that incontrovertibly proved the WM3 guilty were to surface, I, too, would consider it. Also, like you, I feel that no such evidence has surfaced so far IMO.

One thing that bothers me with your last post is the dismissive attitude that you have toward the "Blackboarders" as you call us. As a very active member of that site, I am truly sorry that you feel that way. There is much wisdom on that site, and many people who are very knowledgeable about the case. I wish you would reconsider your broad stroke condemnation of so many people, including me!

Finally, I anxiously await the hearing in December. I am confident that many questions will be answered and that a good deal of new information will be made public. I am very confident that the information forthcoming from the hearing will be more than sufficient to grant new trials to the WM3. Then, I guess we'll have to wait and see if the WMPD feels that their case is strong enough to take to trial without the hysteria that surrounded the case back in 1994.

 

[Jaxson]

It WAS found on that pendent....... You would know that if you read the facts.

Mike Allen says that Jessie is still confessing to this day.......

I'm sorry I have never read that fact. I have only read that Stevie's blood type was found on the pendant. I understand that there are 4 blood types.
A couple of them are more common than others, however we all fall into one of those categories. What is Stevie's blood type and how many people fall into that group?
Did they test further and narrow it down from these 4 types?

Do you have a link to provide me with this fact that it was Stevie's blood?

Thank you

 

[Cappuccino]

It WAS found on that pendent....... You would know that if you read the facts.

Mike Allen says that Jessie is still confessing to this day.......

I was about to say something rude about Mike Allen, but on second thoughts, I only have your word for it that Allen says this. And you falsely claimed Stevie's blood was found on one of the defendant's pendants, so I will give Mr. Allen the benefit of the doubt.

 

[claudicici]

I see a big difference between the attitude of LE against the 3 and what posters on a crime SLEUTHING forum say about someone.
Yes,we are not LE so we have every right to SUSPECT someone and discuss KNOWN facts about said suspect.(Like the DNA evidence,his former behaviour (which by the way is undoubtably and undeniably disgracful and deplorable among other things,that's the reason I don't like to post on this particular subject because it makes me so angry)
That's a far cry from putting 3 kids behind bars for the rest of their lives without any physical evidence.

 

[justthinkin]

Drats, I am very careful about deleting posts of mine, but I didn't see your post, clauddicici or I wouldn't have done a deletion.

Well CR, if you come along later, I think you can get the drift of what my post said by clauddicici's response. You know, the usual NONsense as what nons have to say has often been labeled.

In brief, I think the YUKU board is better run than the BB. It's more of a balanced board as well. It's not the members of a board that are the problem so much as it is how the board is run.

 

[justthinkin]

I see a big difference between the attitude of LE against the 3 and what posters on a crime SLEUTHING forum say about someone.
Yes,we are not LE so we have every right to SUSPECT someone and discuss KNOWN facts about said suspect.(Like the DNA evidence,his former behaviour (which by the way is undoubtably and undeniably disgracful and deplorable among other things,that's the reason I don't like to post on this particular subject because it makes me so angry)
That's a far cry from putting 3 kids behind bars for the rest of their lives without any physical evidence.

Actually it's against the Terms of Service here to victimize the parent of a murdered child until LE names that person as a suspect.

 

[claudicici]

it's not against TOS to discuss known facts.It's a known fact that TH has victimized people in the past.No one is victimizing him.

 

[iluvmua]

I see a big difference between the attitude of LE against the 3 and what posters on a crime SLEUTHING forum say about someone.
Yes,we are not LE so we have every right to SUSPECT someone and discuss KNOWN facts about said suspect.(Like the DNA evidence,his former behaviour (which by the way is undoubtably and undeniably disgracful and deplorable among other things,that's the reason I don't like to post on this particular subject because it makes me so angry)
That's a far cry from putting 3 kids behind bars for the rest of their lives without any physical evidence.

Who says you have to have physical evidence to put someone behind bars?

Most murder cases are based on circumstantial evidence, (Which this case was).

We cannot sleuth TH until he is named a suspect. I don't even think we can discuss his past history.

 

[iluvmua]

And the title of this thread is misleading....... The WM3 are not cleared of anything