Doc Who Tied Vaccine to Autism Ruled Unethical

  • #21
I saw this on the news today and thought it quite interesting. In my son's case, autism is hereditary. His dad, grandfather, and uncle all have Asperger's.

My issue with this is - genetically we all may be pre-disposed to something. Addiction, obesity, high cholesterol, heart disease, etc. But if we are pre-disposed to alcoholism, and never take a drink of alcohol - we won't become alcoholics, there are things we can do to control our genetics (for the most part).

Why won't doctor's sign an acceptance of liability if the vaccinations are so safe and not related to so many issues that plague our kids?
 
  • #22
The problem with looking at the unvaccinated Amish community is that there are other environmental differences that don't make them a good control group. Their foods, their medical care, their very physical environments set them apart. A control group would be needed of children exposed to the same environments, with the only factor of note that was different being the vaccines. In the samples available in the general public, there is very little change. I agree with you, it's hard to have a legitimate study with the figures available to work with.
I'm not going to argue over vaccinating or not. At this point, I still consider choosing not to a personal choice instead of an indepth medical decision.

I really hope that they take his license, as his methods prove that he shouldn't be anywhere near kids. Ever.

What exactly would it take to convince you that vaccinations were in fact at fault for a majority of autism/increase in children's neurological issues?
 
  • #23
I understand why so many parents of autistic children believe the vaccine cause it. I have a very close friend with twin boys. Those boys were on target developmentally, they were engaged, speaking words and obviously fully attached and had a very loving bond with their parents. I witnessed myself that right after their 2 year old vaccines...they were none of those things. They had completely shut down. One child is severe and the other was mildly effected. It's very hard to claim that vaccines didn't cause it..or that some genetic, environmental cause coupled with the vaccines.

How sad to witness....imo ...it is not the vaccine itself - it is what they mixed in to extend the Shelf Life, Thimerosal - Mercury.
 
  • #24
What exactly would it take to convince you that vaccinations were in fact at fault for a majority of autism/increase in children's neurological issues?

Proof.
 
  • #25
How sad to witness....imo ...it is not the vaccine itself - it is what they mixed in to extend the Shelf Life, Thimerosal - Mercury.


I agree with you I believe it's the mercury. I have a daughter who has Asberger's Syndrome. When she was`a new born in the hospital a nurse was shaking a thermometer and it broke and went all over her. Now is that the cause? Who knows but I suspect it is.
 
  • #26
Maybe vaccines are excessive in the amount we give but I would much rater give them to my kids then have them end up with polio or other terrible disease. Once more and more people jump on the non vaccine bandwagon we will start seeing a rise in diseases like this again.
 
  • #27
When I was three, I swallowed the entire mercury load from a real mercury thermometer. If that does it, why don't I have autism?
Just curious.
To me, that says that if it is the mercury, there has to be a genetic predisposition to go along with it.

The only thing that happened to me was it made all my hair fall out. I was one streamlined toddler, but not autistic.
 
  • #28
Maybe vaccines are excessive in the amount we give but I would much rater give them to my kids then have them end up with polio or other terrible disease. Once more and more people jump on the non vaccine bandwagon we will start seeing a rise in diseases like this again.


I don't believe it's totally the vaccines. I believe it's some sort of genetic reaction coupled with the crazy crap in food and the vaccines.

i think it may be too many vaccines, too soon. I think they should be spaced out further.

I think looking at the Amish community is helpful, because the eat whole foods, grass fed meet etc...I think it's absolutely INSANE what they're doing to food found in supermarkets.
 
  • #29


Note, the wording on the youtube video ( I don't have working speakers so can't listen to the video) reads: "in the presense of mitochondrial disorders". I don't know if anyone here has or knows of anyone with children with mitochondrial disease. I used to know one from the net and used to work with one mother of a child with mitochondrial disease years ago. There are a few types, and depending on which area of the body mitochondrail disease strikes it can be fatal. It makes me wonder if autism is related more so to mitochondrial disease of some kind, and I know from other parents with children who have mitochondrial disease the only way to test for it is through spinal taps.
 
  • #30
I agree with you I believe it's the mercury. I have a daughter who has Asberger's Syndrome. When she was`a new born in the hospital a nurse was shaking a thermometer and it broke and went all over her. Now is that the cause? Who knows but I suspect it is.


When I was a kid I used to deliberately break thermometers in the kitchen sink and play with the mercury. (No my mother didn't know and I did it at least 3 times). No ill effect on me, and no ill effect on my child.
 
  • #31
But in the grand scheme of things the pharmaceutical companies and medical industry would make more money to treat measles, mumps, or rubella? Or any disease we ger vaccinated for? IDK was just thinking on it. I honestly don't know one way or another, it just stands to reason desease treatment makes more money than prevention.

But aren't all the Pharm companies just as involved in selling the vaccinations as in selling the cures? And vaccinations are practically required and we show no signs of slowing down our reproductive habits, so they have a ready made market. Those scoundrels will find a way to make obscene profits either way.

I don't have a strong feeling about whether or not vaccinations and autism are connected, but I do have a strong feeling about the trustworthiness of the opinion of any group that is so completely in bed with Big Pharm....
 
  • #32
But aren't all the Pharm companies just as involved in selling the vaccinations as in selling the cures? And vaccinations are practically required and we show no signs of slowing down our reproductive habits, so they have a ready made market. Those scoundrels will find a way to make obscene profits either way.

I don't have a strong feeling about whether or not vaccinations and autism are connected, but I do have a strong feeling about the trustworthiness of the opinion of any group that is so completely in bed with Big Pharm....
I don't really care about their profits. It keeps my kids from getting diseases and they have eraticated some diseses thru vaccination. I am not a bad mother or have less healthy kids b/c of it just like if you choose to not vaccinate you are not a bad parent or stupid. Now if these diseases start popping up and you don't vaccinate then yea thats a problem. I have a bigger problem with the money made of off cancer treatment instead of finding a cure.
My dad thinks it is ridiculous that kids up to 5 have to be in a child protective seat. he says someone is in bed with car seat companies and it is a money making scheme. maybe, maybe not, my kids are safe in the vehicle though so i could care less. Most companies have an agenda and are in bed with someone.
 
  • #33
He also was looking at GASTROINTESTINAL issues with the vaccination. Let's be honest when we're discussing credentials.

What do you do with this little factoid? 1 in 166 children are diagnosed with autism (1 in 90 if boys are isolated), in the generally vaccinated public.

1 in 10,000 children are diagnosed with autism in an amish community of about 50/50 vaccinated (look it up, there are tons of references to it online) Less than 10% of the population are giving zero vaccinations (although I am in that camp, and I can tell you how much better my daughter's health is than any - and I mean ANY of her peers).

I personally, don't think it is really legitimate to say because more and more people aren't vaccinating the rates should be going down, until it reaches a higher level and consistent level of nonvaccinated vs. vaccinated kids, and until the pharmaceuticals don't control the studies.

what I find fascinating is the idea that we have no idea what causes it - but we are damn sure it's not the up to THIRTY TWO plus vaccinations a child receives by the time they are six.

Good point. I have thought there is a link between vaccines and autism for a long time. I don't think vaccines necessarily cause autism but I do think that if a child has a genetic predisposition, excessive vaccines can trigger it, where it may not have surfaced otherwise.
I also think many other things could trigger it, like serious illnesses.

How sad to witness....imo ...it is not the vaccine itself - it is what they mixed in to extend the Shelf Life, Thimerosal - Mercury.

I do not believe that it is mercury in vaccines in and of itself that triggers autism. From what I understand, the amounts of mercury were trace, not significant enough to cause any kind of mercury poisoning. And, kids exposed to multiple vaccines that do NOT contain mercury, are still showing higher autism rates than children who do not receive vaccines.

Vaccines have saved billions of lives. I am all for vaccines. However, it is the manner in which they are used that disturbs me.

I do not think millions of mothers out there are hysterical when it comes to their belief that their children were normal one moment and a few days after a vaccine, they showed symptoms of autism. Maternal instinct is powerful and much like vaccines, I think it has saved millions of lives.

What disturbs me is the vaccination schedule. I have atopic dermatitis, an immune system skin disorder (which, by the way, I control through ongoing treatment from Europe. In 21 years, no U.S. doctor could help me). Based on my experiences and (limited) knowledge of immune system malfunctions, I have no doubt that the immune system can wreak devastation. If the immune system can attack organs as it does with various illnesses, or fail to adequately protect them, as it has with my condition, why can't it cause a neurological condition like autism? The brain is an organ. It can be affected.

When I was a child, I received 6 vaccines by the time I was 2. Kids today receive 32 and gaining. Vaccines are meant to and do cause a reaction in the immune system. If there is an overload due to repeated assaults on the immune system by repeated vaccines of young, developing bodies and brains, I can see that something could go very wrong.

I agree that this doctor used unethical methods to support his article. That does not mean that a link has been disproved although some say it has been disproved by other studies.

But, I do not trust the American medical establishment 100% and I do not trust powerful lobbies, American or otherwise, that have a massive financial stake in the outcome of studies. I believe that because our medical industry is based on money, and that companies are making billions off our illnesses, there exists a conflict of interest when it comes to determining whether these treatments, medications and yes, even vaccines, are always warranted or safe.

For gosh's sake, in the 50's and 60's, pregnant women were given an anti-nausea drug called thalidomide. Here's what that caused: http://images.google.com/images?q=t...ent=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi
I'm sure doctors were encouraged to promote the drug with vigor.
Years ago, lobotomies were also popular and electric shock therapy was used indiscriminately and we know what to think of those approaches now.
Further, people with depression were given Halcion or Haldol which was the exact opposite of what should have been given and which had disastrous results.
Even earlier, in the 1800's, doctors "bled" sick patients, or used dangerous mustard plasters as enemas or shoved in other areas which hastened the deaths of people with cholera. Gosh, at that time, doctors completely scoffed at the idea that germs caused illness!
I can go on and on with examples of horrendous mistakes in medical treatment.

Yes, we have come along way with science and technology and I respect the field of medicine tremendously. And usually, I trust what my doctors have to say. They do have hard earned degrees! But medical science is NOT infallible and when you add a massive financial incentive to the mix which influences what the AMA pushes, I think there is nothing wrong with listening to your gut, doing research, getting second opinions and following your instincts as a parent and a patient when that instinct is telling you something is wrong.
 
  • #34
I don't know a lot about autism, so I have a question. I understand that it is a neurological disorder, but I've heard people say that their children were progressing normally, interacting normally, and then suddenly withdrew and lost skills. If I understand correctly, other disorders, like muscular disorders, often let a child progress to a certain point and then begin to regress, but the disorder is frequently diagnoised before or soon after the regression begins, and sometimes at birth....and the regression is more gradual.

My question is, doesn't the sudden onset with rapid loss of interaction and skills point to "something" happening? It just doesn't sound like a condition the children are born with.

I have a friend with MS, and she told me no one knows why it happens, no one knows what triggers it; I may be reading more into what she said than she meant, but to me, it sounds as though the current understanding of MS is that it is triggered by something, they just don't know what.
There are variable degrees of autism. It can also be known as a developmental disorder and therefore may not be diagnosed until a child is a certain age and reaches certain milestones. A child may progress normally and then show signs of regression and begin withdrawing and become nonverbal. I have seen some children that were nonverbal who were low functioning autistic children.

My son was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome when he was 6 years old. There were signs early on with language, was very articulate, had acute attention to detail, and he could read very well before going to kindegarden. There are varying degrees or autism and diagnoses of children vary. In my situation, it is genetic, as my father and brother have it.
 
  • #35
It is amazing to see how many many children are being born with some form of autism...."on the spectrum"..

is it just "found" more??? Diagnosed?? was it not diagnosed years ago?
or can it be that "high functioning" autistics and Asperinger people, like Bill Gates, meet and marry others like themselves and have more kids with this?? I forget where I read it, but in Silicon Valley the rate of kids born diagnosed with this is astounding..and often the parents have some form of it??

I also think that many people had this before but were simply not diagnosed as such...the severely affected were called "mentally retarded" and the "high functioning" were called nerds or whatever.

As far as the Amish go...they have various diseases from their close knot community, small gene pool. And as was mentioned, their "simple" lifestyle could be a factor....healthy foods, unprocessed foods, no additives etc

It is a shame that researcher did not adhere to the standards. Hopefully some other more legit researchers will be able to get answers

until then...what other things do you think are contributing to this huge rise in Autism? Or is it just now "described" and "diagnosed" as such??
 
  • #36
Not my Kids- I love all your posts on this subject; you are intelligent, thoughtful, and well versed---thank you. I too, injested mercury as a child and I did not develop autism. So many people are so quick to jump on the vaccination bandwagon without proof. More children are helped than harmed with vaccinations. There are so many other environmental factors that should be looked at---more pollutants in our water supply, hormones in milk, etc. The bottom line is that 99.9% of pediatricians want to help our children--they would not give vaccinations if they were not more help than harm.
When I was three, I swallowed the entire mercury load from a real mercury thermometer. If that does it, why don't I have autism?
Just curious.
To me, that says that if it is the mercury, there has to be a genetic predisposition to go along with it.

The only thing that happened to me was it made all my hair fall out. I was one streamlined toddler, but not autistic.
 
  • #37
I personally dont think that vaccines have anything to do with autism. I have never seen anything to convince me otherwise. I have on the other hand seen a lot of conspiracy theory information on both sides. I choose to believe they dont cause autism because it seems to me that there would be a lot more people with it because of the millions and millions that are vaccinated. Also there are so many disorders that keep comming up and they have to do with mutated genes or recessive genes or a number of abnormalities. There are several thoughts as to how autism is caused. I do hope they find out for sure soon so parents of these chidren can have some definitive answers.
 
  • #38
I think it all has to do with more diagnosing of all conditions. Look at how many diagnoses of ADD there are these days (called something else now probably) when if you look back, there were just as many kids in school in my day that behaved as if they had ADD but since it did not have a name, it was not diagnosed. Also depression, which is way over diagnosed IMO.
I don't really buy into the link of vaccines to autism but can't fault those who do, as long as they accept that their children may contract other illnesses or conditions from not having the shots. I know it is not a good choice to make, but it is a choice I guess.
I have a brother with severe mental disorders, but as he is in his 40's now he was never really diagnosed with anything in particular and not sure giving it a name would have helped matters.
I do agree that the pharm. companies have way too much power in Washington, no matter who is in charge of the White House, but this goes for all types of drugs and conditions. Hard for me to believe that more cures couldn't be found in this day and age, but then we wouldn't need the costly meds...but i am not a conspiracy theory person, so it all gets confusing :(
 
  • #39
See, speaking of ADD and ADHD those are 2 diseases I have a real problem with. Don't get me wrong, I am not doubting their existense but I think they are way over diagnosed. I do not belive that this many kids have that disease.
 
  • #40
In my opinion only-ADD is used nowadays to cover a lot of kids who would have just been called brats in the old days! so it makes it hard to sort out who really needs medical help and medication and who just needs some rules and "time-outs"...
 

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