Does this make sense?

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

IMO the EA device was constructed by children about two days before the murder -- around the 23rd. If the end of the wooden handle was whittled into a phallus, it was not done Christmas night because of the time restraints.

The EA device was likely left imbedded in JonBenet's neck because it looked like an elaborate garrote and was a part of the shock the perp appears to have wanted to create. The marks left on the neck after the EA device was removed would obviously be from a 1/4" wide cord and the cops would be searching for the cord anyway. The killer knew the cord couldn't be traced to a Ramsey. I think the perp also likely posed JonBenet obscenely, and the cord and stick were a necessary part of the posing.

The blood on the underwear was postmortem seepage after she had been wiped down and changed into clean underwear (the size 12/14's) in an effort to hide all sexual aspects of the crime. The killer obviously wasn't aware of the seepage. I doubt if the perp was even aware of autopsies.

The body wasn't removed from the house because Mother Nature intervened and put down an unexpected dusting of snow that would have left the killer's footprints from the house AND BACK AGAIN. The perp was trapped in his own house with a body and a ransom note that now didn't make any sense. Mother Nature made sure the snow didn't melt before the cops got there by bizarrely dropping the temperature to below 10 degrees that night.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Thanks for your reply,

So these children took the risk some days prior to Christmas night, hoping Patsy would never miss the paintbrush?

There were shards of wood found nearby or in the paint tote, were these from the paintbrush handle, or are they from another source?

Either John or Patsy could have placed JonBenet's body into the boot of a car and driven it away to be dumped. If it was snowing at this point, then the snow would only record tire tracks, not footprints, just like the bicycle tracks.
So I dont consider snowfall a serious obstacle to removing JonBenet's body.

IMO the ligature and paintbrush tied around JonBenet's neck is quite simply a Garrote, as per the definition here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote it may even be a badly staged looking Garrote, but by no stretch of the imagination, does the evidence allow it to be interpreted as an EA Device, that interpretation is a consequence of Lou Smits Intruder Theory, and the BDI is simply a variation on this theme.

This latter BDI interpretation has so many holes and extraordinary explanations needed to fill the gaps in Lou Smit's IDI, that I no longer consider it as credible.

JonBenet's hair was so tightly embedded in the knotting that the Coroner Dr. John Meyer, had to cut her hair to remove the cord. Also JonBenet's gold chain and cross were tangled in the ligature.

This is distinct and clear forensic evidence, also using your assumption that this was not JonBenet's first session, anyone experienced in performing EA, would not have allowed these entanglements!

This was not an EA Device Accidental Asphyxiation, but a classical asphyxiation by garrotte, quite similar in style to the scene from the The Godfather, where Luca Brasi is garroted.



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[narlacat]

QUOTE>>So I dont consider snowfall a serious obstacle to removing JonBenet's body.<<

I think also UKGuy, that they may have been worried about the noise that would be made by leaving the house in the early hours of the morning, thus attracting the attention of the neighbours.
Apparently the garage roll a door made a real racket.

 

[UKGuy]

QUOTE>>So I dont consider snowfall a serious obstacle to removing JonBenet's body.<<

I think also UKGuy, that they may have been worried about the noise that would be made by leaving the house in the early hours of the morning, thus attracting the attention of the neighbours.
Apparently the garage roll a door made a real racket.

narlacat,

Fair enough, but its not an insurmountable obstacle, who would the neighbours think was driving the car, would they know who owned it, could it be Christmas guests returning home after partying?

JonBenet's death was an elaborately staged homicide, so well staged the fake evidence has misled many people!

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[narlacat]

UKGuy
The Ramsey's didn't have Christmas guests that night.
The neighbours were scrutinized...it would have come out who left the house that night/early morning, someone would have noticed or heard. They sure noticed and heard other things that went on that night ie the scream, different lights on, lights off, lights moving around in the kitchen area around midnight....

 

[rashomon]

IMO the ligature and paintbrush tied around JonBenet's neck is quite simply a Garrote, as per the definition here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote it may even be a badly staged looking Garrote, but by no stretch of the imagination, does the evidence allow it to be interpreted as an EA Device, that interpretation is a consequence of Lou Smits Intruder Theory, and the BDI is simply a variation on this theme.

ITA agree with you on that.

JonBenet's death was an elaborately staged homicide, so well staged the fake evidence has misled many people!

Who do you think staged it, and why?

 

[UKGuy]

ITA agree with you on that.


Who do you think staged it, and why?

rashomon,

I cannot be certain, but probably all three Ramseys, were involved in the staging at various points in time.

It was probably staged from mixed motives, that is each Ramsey, removed evidence that they thought implicated them, or conflicted with how she was intended to be percieved.

What cannot be determined currently is who killed her and why? What I am convinced of is the wholesale relocation and removal of evidence, as in a final cleaning up phase, with JonBenet being moved to the wine-cellar.

The manner of her death was not accidental, so either she was killed in anger or to silence her.

If you factor in potential prior abuse, then it appears this may have been why she was killed, but its also possible she was killed in rage, then the person abusing her decided to alter her prior staging away from those pigtails and jewellry look to something a little more reflective of a sexual assault, obviously nobody needs to be told about this, since it may have been done clandestinely alone in the wine-cellar. That may be the reason why she was re-located there, certain aspects of her staging could be continued in private.



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[tipper]

rashomon,

I cannot be certain, but probably all three Ramseys, were involved in the staging at various points in time.

It was probably staged from mixed motives, that is each Ramsey, removed evidence that they thought implicated them, or conflicted with how she was intended to be percieved.

What cannot be determined currently is who killed her and why? What I am convinced of is the wholesale relocation and removal of evidence, as in a final cleaning up phase, with JonBenet being moved to the wine-cellar.

The manner of her death was not accidental, so either she was killed in anger or to silence her.

If you factor in potential prior abuse, then it appears this may have been why she was killed, but its also possible she was killed in rage, then the person abusing her decided to alter her prior staging away from those pigtails and jewellry look to something a little more reflective of a sexual assault, obviously nobody needs to be told about this, since it may have been done clandestinely alone in the wine-cellar. That may be the reason why she was re-located there, certain aspects of her staging could be continued in private.

.

They'd have had to alter her fairly quickly or else her body would show she'd been moved.

Also I would be amazed if Burke was able to stand up to hours of questioning and not incriminate himself and his parents.

 

[ellen13]

They'd have had to alter her fairly quickly or else her body would show she'd been moved.

Also I would be amazed if Burke was able to stand up to hours of questioning and not incriminate himself and his parents.

That's the part that always shocked me. But, my theory is that Burke had attachment disorder and had the makings of a sociopath at a very young age due to his time away from his mother and father due to her illness and JR being gone for business. Sociopaths become pathological liars.
Is it possible that this is who Burke really is? It might be a stretch
but it is a theory. Has anyone done any research on kids age 9 who
have committed horrific crimes??

 

[tipper]

That's the part that always shocked me. But, my theory is that Burke had attachment disorder and had the makings of a sociopath at a very young age due to his time away from his mother and father due to her illness and JR being gone for business. Sociopaths become pathological liars.
Is it possible that this is who Burke really is? It might be a stretch
but it is a theory. Has anyone done any research on kids age 9 who
have committed horrific crimes??

If that were true one would expect to find a history prior to the murders of sociopathic behavior at school, with other kids, animals etc. Information like that would have come out early on from school personnel, other parents and kids.

 

[Linda7NJ]

That's the part that always shocked me. But, my theory is that Burke had attachment disorder and had the makings of a sociopath at a very young age due to his time away from his mother and father due to her illness and JR being gone for business. Sociopaths become pathological liars.
Is it possible that this is who Burke really is? It might be a stretch
but it is a theory. Has anyone done any research on kids age 9 who
have committed horrific crimes??

I've worked with children as young as 7 that have committed violent crimes. It's not rare. Exceptionally bright children with reactive attachment disorder are often perceived as "perfect" to others outside the family. Often times the rage is directed at the mother and no one else believes her until something horrid like this happens. It's not out of the question to think he may have killed her to get back at & hurt his mother.

He may very well be a sociopathic killer, I just doubt he was a sadistic sexual predator. He wouldn't have stopped. There would have been a build-up ...maybe there was. But I believe the sexual assault was staged

 

[ellen13]

If that were true one would expect to find a history prior to the murders of sociopathic behavior at school, with other kids, animals etc. Information like that would have come out early on from school personnel, other parents and kids.

Scott P. showed no signs of this behavior prior to what he did to Laci.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Scott P. showed no signs of this behavior prior to what he did to Laci.

According to who? His parents?

Anyway...S.P. wasn't a sadistic sexual predator either...psychopath, yes. Sex offender..nope.

Violent sexual deviance isn't something that goes away. It tends to escalate

 

[UKGuy]

They'd have had to alter her fairly quickly or else her body would show she'd been moved.

Also I would be amazed if Burke was able to stand up to hours of questioning and not incriminate himself and his parents.

tipper,

She was wrapped in a blanket, she was wiped down, those pigtails, hair-ties and size-12 underwear are likely post-mortem, as possibly are the white-longjohns, although thats contentious, she is wearing no socks or shoes, I'll speculate those were removed to reflect her staging. She was still wearing the white top she wore to the White's party, unless you accept the straight to bed routine, why is she wearing white-longjohns and a white gap top?

So yes someone moved quickly, where from is an open question, but she was not garrotted in the wine-cellar, her body was relocated there, then she was made to appear the victim of a viscious sexual assault.

We have the removal of forensic evidence from somewhere else, the relocation of JonBenet to the wine-cellar, from the forensic evidence in the wine-cellar, its reasonable to infer that her staging was revised, her final appearance was to be that of 6-year old girl dressed in her night-time barbie gown, for some reason that aspect was not completed! Possibly the prior staging was too amatuerish, and pointed towards a Ramsey, and it had to be altered to take the form we now interpret as an intruder led abduction.

Burke like John and Patsy only needs to remember a minimal set of things, then he went to bed, woke and JonBenet was gone!

Even if I am wrong regarding the Ramsey's, the forensic evidence does not lie, the case for plural crime-scene stagings is I feel stronger than that of a EA Device led BDI, since the latter is an interpretation of an obvious garrotting. It also employs the staged forensic evidence, giving it the credibility that the stager intended!

 

[rashomon]

tipper,

She was wrapped in a blanket, she was wiped down, those pigtails, hair-ties and size-12 underwear are likely post-mortem, as possibly are the white-longjohns, although thats contentious, she is wearing no socks or shoes, I'll speculate those were removed to reflect her staging. She was still wearing the white top she wore to the White's party, unless you accept the straight to bed routine, why is she wearing white-longjohns and a white gap top?

So yes someone moved quickly, where from is an open question, but she was not garrotted in the wine-cellar, her body was relocated there, then she was made to appear the victim of a viscious sexual assault.

We have the removal of forensic evidence from somewhere else, the relocation of JonBenet to the wine-cellar, from the forensic evidence in the wine-cellar, its reasonable to infer that her staging was revised, her final appearance was to be that of 6-year old girl dressed in her night-time barbie gown, for some reason that aspect was not completed! Possibly the prior staging was too amatuerish, and pointed towards a Ramsey, and it had to be altered to take the form we now interpret as an intruder led abduction.

Burke like John and Patsy only needs to remember a minimal set of things, then he went to bed, woke and JonBenet was gone!

Even if I am wrong regarding the Ramsey's, the forensic evidence does not lie, the case for plural crime-scene stagings is I feel stronger than that of a EA Device led BDI, since the latter is an interpretation of an obvious garrotting. It also employs the staged forensic evidence, giving it the credibility that the stager intended!

Very convincing explanations, UK GUY!

What is also interesting: Patsy first stated that JB was wearing a red turtleneck when going to bed, and indeed, the garment was found balled-up on the bathroom floor. Now which intruder would change the victim's clothes, rummaging through her bedroom? So the changing of clothes points to the Ramseys too.
In terms of JB not being garrotted in the wine cellar: was the paint tray in the wine cellar too? For if yes, I would think she was garotted there because the brush was in the cellar too. I can imagine that the garotting was the last thing they did in their staging, when JB had already been taken to the cellar.

 

[UKGuy]

Very convincing explanations, UK GUY!

What is also interesting: Patsy first stated that JB was wearing a red turtleneck when going to bed, and indeed, the garment was found balled-up on the bathroom floor. Now which intruder would change the victim's clothes, rummaging through her bedroom? So the changing of clothes points to the Ramseys too.
In terms of JB not being garrotted in the wine cellar: was the paint tray in the wine cellar too? For if yes, I would think she was garotted there because the brush was in the cellar too. I can imagine that the garotting was the last thing they did in their staging, when JB had already been taken to the cellar.

rashomon,

Yes the red turtleneck , we can speculate about that, that may have been part of her initial staging along with her hair-styling etc. Since it has been washed or soaked, however you interpret it, possibly it was forensically contaminated, leading to the white gap top being placed on her?

JonBenet may have been garrotted down in the basement, she may have been garrotted elsewhere. The fact that the paintbrush was in the basement does not mean she was garrotted in the wine-cellar. I will suggest that the paintbrush handle is an ad-hoc addition to the cord already around her neck, strands of JonBenet's hair are tied into the knotting on the paintbrush handle, so firmly embedded that the coroner Dr. John Meyer had to cut her hair to remove the cord.

An experienced practitioner of EA would not have allowed that to occur, also her gold chain and cross were tangled in the ligature, all evidence that its not EA related.


.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab, in the autopsy report Dr Meyer states, "this wooden stick is irregularly broken at both ends", he does not say it was whittled.

Seeker,

The wooden paintbrush handle looks whittled on to me. The tip of the handle is missing and there were wooden shards from the handle on the basement floor.

Patsy says her paintbrushes were relatively new and none were broken. But the one used to make the EA device looks like it's a million years old. Why?

BlueCrab

 

[Nehemiah]

rashomon,Since it has been washed or soaked, however you interpret it, possibly it was forensically contaminated, leading to the white gap top being placed on her?

I think, UK Guy, that it was balled up on the counter in her bathroom. Patsy said that she fussed with a jumper that was soiled and this occurred outside JB's bedroom, in her laundry area. First thing we have Patsy saying that JB was wearing the turtleneck, then she changed her story. Although the pics have never been released, we have been told that JB wore the white Gap top to the White's that evening. So, if Patsy's initial statements are true, then JB went to the White's in the Gap top, came home and changed her clothes for some reason. Then, she was redressed into the Gap top. I've always thought her clothes held the clues as to what really happened.

 

[BlueCrab]

So you seriously believe that children constructed an erotic asphyxiation device and whittled the tip of the paintbrush handle into the head of a penis???

rashomon,

Please don't lock me in. It's a THEORY that tries to explain the physical evidence (the contraption wrapped around JonBenet's neck). I have no set theory. But to answer your question, YES, children could have constructed the EA device -- with the previous tutoring of an older teen. EA devices are usually the product of males in their teens or early twenties, and there are several likely tutor suspects in this case I could point a finger at.

The EA device on JonBenet obviously didn't work as the slip knot on the ligature likely tightened up but then didn't loosen when it was supposed to and JonBenet was accidentally asphyxiated. Almost all EA and AEA devices have safety mechanisms designed into them -- to timely release the ligature and guard against accidental hangings. The poor design of the EA device suggests the builder(s) didn't know for sure how to construct it -- especially the safety mechanism.

So far as to why the tip of the paint brush handle is missing, how about YOU or someone else stepping up to the plate and providing a theory on why it's missing. Making believe the mysterious missing tip evidence doesn't exist will not advance the understanding of the case.

BlueCrab

 

[BlueCrab]

I thought that your theory revolved around accidental strangulation through EA? This sounds like you're suggesting a more deviant, premeditated situation. I don't know...sometimes your theory makes a lot of sense, but other times I have a hard time accepting it (e.g., carving a wooden penis, a massive coverup involving the entire colorado court system)

VOR,

As you know, I have several variations of the BDI theory which support the known evidence, but my main theory is that JonBenet was accidentally asphyxiated while children were experimenting with something they knew too little about -- erotic asphyxiation.

After the accidental strangulation the scene would have been re-staged to try to hide the sexual aspects of the death and make it appear to be the work of a foreign terrorist intruder. By extremely tightening the ligature already on JonBenet's neck to the point of imbedding the cord deep into her neck, it changed the appearance of the device from an EA device to a garrote device. It worked because most of you to this day still call the device a garrote, which, IMO, it originally was not.

About the missing tip of the paintbrush handle, can we have YOUR theory on why it was apparently whittled off (the shards were on the basement floor)?

And about the Boulder court engaged in "a mass coverup", it takes just ONE order from a court and every court in the nation will respect it. No mass coverup is needed to carry out a court order protecting the identities of minor children.

However, you are right about the possible premeditated aspects of this crime. There's one thing that bothers me a lot. The evidence of a stun gun having been used on JonBenet, if proven beyond reasonable doubt, IMO would throw the case into the premeditated murder category.

BlueCrab

 

[Jayelles]

Do we know if the missing bit is the bit which was used to assault JBR?

If so, I would imagine it was disposed of with the cord and tape in case it had forensic evidence which could identify the killer.