Domestic Violence/Is EB a Battered Wife?

[Hickory Born]

WestsideFox, In the 911 call Adam stated "WE checked in there last night about 2:30 and she was there." Adam did not say Elisa checked, he said "we." By using that particular word, I would think that he (along with someone else) went and checked on Zahra.

I am very well aware that he changed his statement later on to say Elisa checked on Zahra. But this part of Adam's initial statement via 911 call was a lie. IMO

tlcox, I think AB can be violent...with the charge of assault with a deadly weapon (trying to hit BB with his car) and also the charge of communicating threats.

I understand where both of you are coming from, but logic tells me the man was aware and invoved. IMO.

 

[raisincharlie]

Jeffrey Allred remembers, with a shudder, the last time he saw her in the spring of 1998.

She had put her daughters in the car and headed to Walmart for groceries. When the tail lights receded in the night, he pulled a packed suitcase from a bedroom closet, jumped in his truck and headed in the opposite direction.

"I just couldn't take the abuse anymore," said the 6-foot-2 Allred, who weighs 260 pounds.

He said she beat him with a baseball bat and threw rocks at him. He was so spooked that he never divorced her; he was too afraid he might see her in court.

snipped from AP article with a lot of info on EB's life pre-Adam.

http://www.valleynewslive.com/Global/story.asp?S=13964441

From your link I find one of the most interesting comments to be from Andrew Harris:

"We just hit it off," he said. "She was easy to talk to."
They married a few months later on April 17, 1992.
Soon her personality changed. She was often angry, and she took it out on her daughters, Harris said. She yelled and hit them, he said.
"I'd say to her, 'Why do you have them in their rooms again?' She'd just start mumbling about how she didn't want to deal with them. The truth is she treated them like dirt," he said.


re-posting link to stay in the rules:

http://www.valleynewslive.com/Global/story.asp?S=13964441

 

[Mountain_Kat]

We're only hearing one side of the story with these previous husbands. I doubt any of them would be very willing to come out and say, "Yeah, we beat the crap out of each other." Maybe it was all one sided, and maybe it wasn't. But in the case of Adam Baker, we pretty much know it wasn't all one sided, because we have eye witnesses who tell us otherwise.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

I love you MK. but I do not know that yet. I feel the menacing and behavior exhibitted during that situation may very well have been an attemp to placate EB after realizing this marriage was a bad situation and not knowing how to get himself and Z out of it. I will have to look at the timeline again to determine, when CPS started coming round (opportunity for AB to realize abuse may be going on) the road chase with whatserface and the menacing situation and the Zhara missing situation.

EB strikes me as an extremely "you are with me - or against me" sort of individual.

ETA and please dont make fun of typos as I have a sick kid who is sleeping on couch beside me and I am typing in the dark right now. SOrry

 

[Allusonz]

I keep coming back to the pillows and blanket found in his work vehicle IIRC

As most of you know I have been of the opinion for some time that AB really did sleep in that vehicle for the most part, what i dont know is for how long....

I am beginning to think we should rename this "Were EB's husbands abused"

 

[Hickory Born]

I keep coming back to the pillows and blanket found in his work vehicle IIRC

As most of you know I have been of the opinion for some time that AB really did sleep in that vehicle for the most part, what i dont know is for how long....

I am beginning to think we should rename this "Were EB's husbands abused"

I first thought the same thing, that the pillow and blanket were taken from the car. MSM wrote it up that way, but after reading the warrant, I think they were taken from the house along with other items to see if LE could get Zahra's DNA. I think they also took a brush and toothbrush. I might be wrong, but I think MSM led us in the incorrect direction.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I love you MK. but I do not know that yet. I feel the menacing and behavior exhibitted during that situation may very well have been an attemp to placate EB after realizing this marriage was a bad situation and not knowing how to get himself and Z out of it. I will have to look at the timeline again to determine, when CPS started coming round (opportunity for AB to realize abuse may be going on) the road chase with whatserface and the menacing situation and the Zhara missing situation.

EB strikes me as an extremely "you are with me - or against me" sort of individual.

ETA and please dont make fun of typos as I have a sick kid who is sleeping on couch beside me and I am typing in the dark right now. SOrry

I love you too.

But, the "road rage" incident aside, we have reports from former neighbors telling us that AB and EB were violent with each other. These reports don't say that EB chased AB out into the yard and beat the living tar out of the poor man. They say that they BOTH fought with each other, and even took fights out into the parking lot.

A few weeks after they moved in, she started hearing Adam and Elisa Baker a lot.

“They fought verbally and physically with each other. You could hear it through the walls,” Mims said. “They’d even take it out into the parking lot.”

The Bakers were fighting so much one time that it knocked the pictures off the wall the Mimses shared with the Bakers, Mims said.

The fighting got so bad that Mims said she asked them to move out in early November 2009. In a day and a half, they were gone.



http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2010/nov/01/stepmother-abused-her-neighbors-say-ar-499832/

 

[Flakes]

WestsideFox, In the 911 call Adam stated "WE checked in there last night about 2:30 and she was there." Adam did not say Elisa checked, he said "we." By using that particular word, I would think that he (along with someone else) went and checked on Zahra.

I am very well aware that he changed his statement later on to say Elisa checked on Zahra. But this part of Adam's initial statement via 911 call was a lie. IMO

...

My partner and I often use the expression "we" when we mean one or the other of us, as we share parenting duties. We don't see our activities as completely independent, we see them as collective. I think the use of "we" in the 911 call is a pretty vague basis for accusations of being a "liar" (which I interpret as being deliberately misleading and dishonest). I think it's more likely a case of: 1) collective thinking; or 2) a lack of attention to detail. And of course I could be quite wrong.

 

[Hickory Born]

My partner and I often use the expression "we" when we mean one or the other of us, as we share parenting duties. We don't see our activities as completely independent, we see them as collective. I think the use of "we" in the 911 call is a pretty vague basis for accusations of being a "liar" (which I interpret as being deliberately misleading and dishonest). I think it's more likely a case of: 1) collective thinking; or 2) a lack of attention to detail. And of course I could be quite wrong.

I did not try to be deliberately misleading or dishonest (that is not me or my personality). You have a good point about the collective use of "we" and I accept your point. But I personally think parts of the 911 call were a lie, all planned out in advance.

 

[LCoastMom]

Joseph Proctor & EB were married Sept. 5, 1987. She was 19; he was 28.

The marriage was rocky. The couple lived in a home owned by Proctor's mother, Levirtis White. In April 1989, White asked a judge for a restraining order, claiming Elisa was stealing and destroying property in the home.

According to the mother-in-law, Elisa said: "If I have to get out of here, I'll burn the house down. I'm going to kill this baby. I'm going to wreck this car. I'll kill those kids."

Two months later, the couple reconciled. Proctor's mother dropped the complaint.

The relationship ended Christmas Day in 1990 when Elisa walked out. She gained custody of Amber and Brittany; Douglas went to live with Proctor.

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20110203/WIRE/110209957/1151?p=3&tc=pg

This article doesn't say it wasn't mutual abuse but it sure paints a clear picture of EB and her temper.

Interesting that Proctor took Douglas but she was allowed to keep B.S. (not to mention A.F.) even after saying she would kill them. Very scary indeed.

The RO was obtained by Proctor's mother, another case of a man who knew not to cross her?

 

[Jacie Estes]

Domestic violence....the potential for violence was on both sides. ab went after eb's daughter for money owed and eb's traits are becoming well known with recent media stories.

Having been violently assaulted in a dv incident, I want to say that there is no doubt in my mind that the actions perpetrated upon each other [eb/ab] also affected Zahra and may have ultimately been the reason/cause of Zahra's death. If she had tried to be peacemaker between the 'adults' she could have very well been hurt and susbsequently died.

Both eb/ab are not small people in size/stature and when that 'force' is unleashed it would very easily physically harm Zahra. I am using the term would because I know that severe physical harm, not just emotional harm, does come from dv assaults. True there are cases of slapping and pushing but there are assaults where people die.

[CAUTION GRAPHIC] My attack was a one time thing and lasted maybe 5 minutes, I don't remember much beyond that. I am not a large person, 5'4" and 130lbs; the end result for me was blunt force trauma injuries to my head/skull that cased Traumatic Brain Injury, memory problems and PTSD 3 years later, I'm still in Physical Therapy for injuries to my back/neck/ribs and shoulder/arm as well as pain from cervical fractures. I had injury to my facial bones, teeth/crowns knocked out and one of my eyes was partially detached at the BACK of the eye ball from the impact of the blows to my head. Both of my eyeball structures have been damaged w/ the inner liner/substance of the eye being torn and chunked away, much like the damage in shaken baby syndrome. [I just want to say that after reading this thread and knowing what dv truly is I thought and prayed about writing this comment. I hope that no one is offended or upset by it but it is one of MANY true stories about domestic violence. I have spoken to university classes/groups and spoken publicly about this to other groups. By speaking out more are aware of the effects of domestic violence.] Yes, my ex went to jail and NO I did not got back into the situation. I was given a 5 year order of protection by the court because of the severity of my injury and the fact that a gun was involved in the assault

I know that if Zahra got in the way of ab/eb she was in great danger. It hurts me to know that Zahra was captive in a dynamic that she was powerless against. ab and eb would have complete control in the situation.

 

[tlcya]

Thank you Jacie, for sharing your own personal knowledge of DV. I am so glad you are alive! I agree with everything you've said about the potential for severe harm having come to Zahra if she got caught in the middle of such an incident. Even the emotional toll alone saddens me to consider. Zahra had so little here in the US, it is heartbreaking to think she may have also spent time, locked up in her room, hearing the screaming, the throwing, the breaking and perhaps even blows being delivered. What an awful existence for such a sunny little lass to be stuck with. Each time I picture that smiling face, I am angered and outraged afresh that this adorable girl was treated so poorly in so many ways. I need to know what happened to that child, but I dread knowing, as it can only further break my heart.

 

[Flakes]

I did not try to be deliberately misleading or dishonest (that is not me or my personality). You have a good point about the collective use of "we" and I accept your point. But I personally think parts of the 911 call were a lie, all planned out in advance.

OH GOSH! Hickory Born, the thought NEVER passed through my mind that YOU were being deliberately misleading or dishonest! I meant I define a person telling "Lies" as being deliberately misleading and dishonest - not making innocent oversights in attention to detail (ie "I" versus "we"). I was relating that to AB's words in the phone call. So sorry you thought I was meaning you ... not in the slightest!!!

 

[Flakes]

Jacie, thanks and a big :hug:

 

[Jacie Estes]

Jacie, thanks and a big :hug:

Thanks to you and tlcox for your posts. I am grateful for every day.

I think that sometimes people tune out to what domestic violence is; I want to express the fact that it can be horribly brutal.

There has to be justice for Zahra.