Doogie Howser is Gay!

[Nova]

Heterosexuality is automatically accepted all the time - but announced? Homosexuals do have wedding rings, wedding showers, anniversaries, and they too can be the spouse who is being told where they should stand, how they should behave as their spouse wins or loses an election. The only difference is the gender of the spouses.

Details, if you don't want to stand where you are told at your wedding, you absolutely have my permission to stand somewhere else.

But if you step back a moment and listen to almost any conversation involving heterosexuals, I think you will find they announce their sexuality repeatedly and all the time. In fact, it's one of the ways in our culture that one asserts oneself as "normal."

Our local state assemblywoman caused a flap during the recent campaign when she remarked of our governor (Schwarzenegger) that "I wouldn't kick him out of my bed." What was an issue was that she said it in front of a group of high school students (minors); nobody found the remark itself otherwise surprising.

Now I have no problem with all this announcing until someone argues that sexuality is "private." Because it just isn't, unless it's a marginalized and persecuted minority sexuality.

 

[csds703]

Its all very empty if there is no legal rights behind it. Ceremonies are all well and good. Just let me know I can protect my loved one when I die.

I was wondering... Couldn't someone just draw up legal documents stating their wishes should they become ill or die on who they want to inherit their property or make medical decisions for them. What if I wasn't even in a relationship but wanted to leave everything to my friend and bypass my family, couldn't I just do that?

 

[Nova]

Not where I live. It's called the Domestic Partnership Law ( I think ) and you can have your domestic partner on your medical insurance, whether your are straight or gay. Which is how it should be.

HOWEVER, you are taxed on every dollar provided toward that insurance by your employer. Unlike legally married heterosexuals doing the same job who receive that benefit for free. (Yes, I know this from personal experience.)

 

[julianne]

Tax law. It happens. Extra taxes that married people do not have to pay that might put an elderly gay out on the streets while grieving the loss of their 50 year partnership.

1049 rights afforded in marriage:
http://scribbling.net/1049-federal-rights-depend-on-marital-status

Oh, I guess I misunderstood. When you said property rights I figured you meant who gets the house if one dies. You're right about taxes, though---married people DO have many more tax benefits and breaks & I don't agree with that. So much of our system is antiquated. It's not surprising, though, when the majority of our government is made up old, white men in suits.

Hey, don't flame that you guys---it's a fact!

 

[IrishMist]

Not where I live. It's called the Domestic Partnership Law ( I think ) and you can have your domestic partner on your medical insurance, whether your are straight or gay. Which is how it should be.

Your location must really be Paradise... can't do that here in regular ol' Michigan.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I was wondering... Couldn't someone just draw up legal documents stating their wishes should they become ill or die on who they want to inherit their property or make medical decisions for them. What if I wasn't even in a relationship but wanted to leave everything to my friend and bypass my family, couldn't I just do that?

Read my above post with link and you'll see how it is different even with many expensive legal papers filed.

Also no social security benefits for the survivor. Spouses have the option of using the married spouse's benefits who has earned the most.

 

[Nova]

I was wondering... Couldn't someone just draw up legal documents stating their wishes should they become ill or die on who they want to inherit their property or make medical decisions for them. What if I wasn't even in a relationship but wanted to leave everything to my friend and bypass my family, couldn't I just do that?

Yes, you can do that. But the legal relatives you disinherit in the process can contest your will. Depending on the laws of the state where you live, a judge might well overturn your will and award your property to one or more of your biological relatives. (This has happened countless times; it is not an abstract example.)

As for medical powers-of-attorney, when my partner and I had ours drawn up, our lawyer warned us that the paper depended on the good will of the hospital where a life-or-death decision was being made. The hospital might decide to ignore the document, in which case the only recourse would be a lengthy lawsuit that could not be resolved until long after the medical decision had to be made.

 

[julianne]

HOWEVER, you are taxed on every dollar provided toward that insurance by your employer. Unlike legally married heterosexuals doing the same job who receive that benefit for free. (Yes, I know this from personal experience.)

I don't believe that's the way it is here, but I don't know that for a fact. Frankly, I am really shocked at that. That is atrocious!!!!!!!!!! WTF???? So, in essence, it's discrimation cloaked in forward-thinking acceptance???

 

[narlacat]

That's a pretty broad statement. Tolerance works both ways.

It may well be, but it's the truth, unless of course you are a Catholic priest, then it's okay

You think I should be tolerant of people that think it's okay to persecute/ostracize/bash to death gays?
I'm sorry but my level of tolerance doesn't stretch that far.

 

[IrishMist]

I was wondering... Couldn't someone just draw up legal documents stating their wishes should they become ill or die on who they want to inherit their property or make medical decisions for them. What if I wasn't even in a relationship but wanted to leave everything to my friend and bypass my family, couldn't I just do that?

Your family could argue it, and conceivably win. Also, I don't know if it's the same everywhere, but here Power of Attorney papers have to be re-filed every six months.

The point is, at least to me, is why should our fellow Americans, tax paying, hard working, just like the rest of us fellow Americans have to jump through these hoops?

Why not let these adults marry the adults of their choosing???

 

[windovervocalcords]

It may well be, but it's the truth, unless of course you are a Catholic priest, then it's okay

You think I should be tolerant of people that think it's okay to persecute/ostracize/bash to death gays?
I'm sorry but my level of tolerance doesn't stretch that far.

narla-

Catholics are not going around beating gays to death generally. They actually have policies to help families with gay relatives now.

The older generation has not benefited as much from this "enlightened policy".

Its all still sin. Hate the sin, love the sinner or some such.

 

[Nova]

I don't believe that's the way it is here, but I don't know that for a fact. Frankly, I am really shocked at that. That is atrocious!!!!!!!!!! WTF???? So, in essence, it's discrimation cloaked in forward-thinking acceptance???

It's federal tax law in the U.S. So unless you are in another country, it's true in your area as well.

ETA: it isn't a matter of cloaking so much as it is a matter of forward-thinking local/state laws v. backward federal laws. The federal government (and the power there of the right wing) is the problem in this instance.

 

[Details]

Details, if you don't want to stand where you are told at your wedding, you absolutely have my permission to stand somewhere else.

But if you step back a moment and listen to almost any conversation involving heterosexuals, I think you will find they announce their sexuality repeatedly and all the time. In fact, it's one of the ways in our culture that one asserts oneself as "normal."

Our local state assemblywoman caused a flap during the recent campaign when she remarked of our governor (Schwarzenegger) that "I wouldn't kick him out of my bed." What was an issue was that she said it in front of a group of high school students (minors); nobody found the remark itself otherwise surprising.

Now I have no problem with all this announcing until someone argues that sexuality is "private." Because it just isn't, unless it's a marginalized and persecuted minority sexuality.

You seem to be thinking I'm saying something I'm not. I'm not saying that were it your local state assemblyman who said, "I wouldn't kick him out of bed." - that that is an inappropriately private comment for a gay man to make. It's just the same thing as the assemblywoman saying it. I'm just saying that it's not a problem, not a failing, not being in the closet, or whatever, if someone who happens to be gay doesn't make the formal announcement to one and all, "Hi, I'm gay". In fact, it seems to me to be something of an ideal for sexual orientation to be sufficiently accepted as irrelevant that you don't need to say it - you introduce your loved ones to your family, you marry, etc.

Now, we're a ways away from that time so far as the laws are concerned, but still I just don't see why it's not OK for a gay person to not have the big coming out party, but simply to live as a gay person, making whatever jokes about who they would and wouldn't kick out of bed, bringing their latest girl/boyfriend home to meet the family, getting married, introducing their spouse, having wedding rings, parties, and anniversaries. It just sounds wrong to me to have to make the formal announcement, as if it's something so shocking, so troubling that you have to warn people, "I'm gay", before they find out incidentally just through conversation - or a value on a myspace page.

 

[julianne]

Your location must really be Paradise... can't do that here in regular ol' Michigan.

Ha ha, not quite paradise, but this was one of the propositions that anti-gays tried to reverse & last night in the elections it was voted to keep the domestic partnership law. Not only because it's the right thing to do, but the majority of people for keeping it a law took the stance that it would hurt many children of domestic partnerships by removing their health insurance, which is true. I just can't understand why ANYONE could possibly be against this.

 

[csds703]

Yes, you can do that. But the legal relatives you disinherit in the process can contest your will. Depending on the laws of the state where you live, a judge might well overturn your will and award your property to one or more of your biological relatives. (This has happened countless times; it is not an abstract example.)

As for medical powers-of-attorney, when my partner and I had ours drawn up, our lawyer warned us that the paper depended on the good will of the hospital where a life-or-death decision was being made. The hospital might decide to ignore the document, in which case the only recourse would be a lengthy lawsuit that could not be resolved until long after the medical decision had to be made.[/QUOTE

This goes along the same lines as someone being treated in a Catholic Hospital for rape and not being allowed to get the morning after pill.

 

[michelle]

No, Michelle, I was trying to say what my line of thinking would be, if I were in her place. Not saying that you said that. You have said you believe it's a sin...

I understand but I have also said that I dont believe people go to hell for it. I have always believed that God be the judge, thats all.

 

[windovervocalcords]

You seem to be thinking I'm saying something I'm not. I'm not saying that were it your local state assemblyman who said, "I wouldn't kick him out of bed." - that that is an inappropriately private comment for a gay man to make. It's just the same thing as the assemblywoman saying it. I'm just saying that it's not a problem, not a failing, not being in the closet, or whatever, if someone who happens to be gay doesn't make the formal announcement to one and all, "Hi, I'm gay". In fact, it seems to me to be something of an ideal for sexual orientation to be sufficiently accepted as irrelevant that you don't need to say it - you introduce your loved ones to your family, you marry, etc.

Now, we're a ways away from that time so far as the laws are concerned, but still I just don't see why it's not OK for a gay person to not have the big coming out party, but simply to live as a gay person, making whatever jokes about who they would and wouldn't kick out of bed, bringing their latest girl/boyfriend home to meet the family, getting married, introducing their spouse, having wedding rings, parties, and anniversaries. It just sounds wrong to me to have to make the formal announcement, as if it's something so shocking, so troubling that you have to warn people, "I'm gay", before they find out incidentally just through conversation - or a value on a myspace page.

Who cares about having some big coming out party? If gays had not come out then there would not even be a movement for equal civil rights.

As long as straight folks can hang out comfortably ignoring that gays exist and are second class citizens then there has to be some activity to keep gays visible and not forgotten.

 

[csds703]

It may well be, but it's the truth, unless of course you are a Catholic priest, then it's okay

You think I should be tolerant of people that think it's okay to persecute/ostracize/bash to death gays?
I'm sorry but my level of tolerance doesn't stretch that far.

I know intolerant people of many different religions. I don't much agree with the "politics" of the Catholic church, BUT I know some really great Catholics including my husband.

 

[IrishMist]

You seem to be thinking I'm saying something I'm not. I'm not saying that were it your local state assemblyman who said, "I wouldn't kick him out of bed." - that that is an inappropriately private comment for a gay man to make. It's just the same thing as the assemblywoman saying it. I'm just saying that it's not a problem, not a failing, not being in the closet, or whatever, if someone who happens to be gay doesn't make the formal announcement to one and all, "Hi, I'm gay". In fact, it seems to me to be something of an ideal for sexual orientation to be sufficiently accepted as irrelevant that you don't need to say it - you introduce your loved ones to your family, you marry, etc.

Now, we're a ways away from that time so far as the laws are concerned, but still I just don't see why it's not OK for a gay person to not have the big coming out party, but simply to live as a gay person, making whatever jokes about who they would and wouldn't kick out of bed, bringing their latest girl/boyfriend home to meet the family, getting married, introducing their spouse, having wedding rings, parties, and anniversaries. It just sounds wrong to me to have to make the formal announcement, as if it's something so shocking, so troubling that you have to warn people, "I'm gay", before they find out incidentally just through conversation - or a value on a myspace page.

An announcement has to be made. Because you are assumed to be hetero.

You go through Jr. High, and High school. You know you are different, but listen to your friends- how they talk, what they say... hell, in some places they go to known gay hang outs and "beat up the ." For fun. That's what they do for fun. So you hide it still.

With any luck and forebearance and strength of character, you decide to be who you really are, dammit. And sometimes you pay a huge price for that.

But I think it's a worse price to pay to have to hide who you are.

One day, I hope it's more like what you are saying. But we, as a society, are nowhere near that yet.

 

[narlacat]

narla-

Catholics are not going around beating gays to death generally. They actually have policies to help families with gay relatives now.

The older generation has not benefited as much from this "enlightened policy".

Its all still sin. Hate the sin, love the sinner or some such.

Wind hi


I wasn't referring specifically about Catholics in that instance, I was speaking of intolerance in general.

I know, and that is just plain ridiculous.
I will never believe being gay is a sin.