Dr. Wecht is interviewed regarding the Ramsey case.

[Tadpole12]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH_4Pbbi-1k&NR=1[/ame]

(2:45) The garage door was known to make a little bit of noise,
number one.
Numer two, a very very thin patina,
a very thin film layer of snow had fallen.

So that if the garage door were to be opened,

(interviewer?:there would have been footprints),
and somebody would drive away, number one, a noise
and number two, treadmarks on the newly fallen snow.

(4:44)"sychopants and aplologists"

(5:18) "I'm not engaging in conjecture,
I'm telling you the hard facts, and this is not an interpretation of mine,
this is not an, a subjective evaluation.
I'm telling you that a significant part of the hymen
of this six year old girl is absent.
..... that there is chronic erosion, chronic to a pathologist means
beyond 48, 72 hours, can't be more precise than that.
Could be much longer but, but, but no less that 48 hours.
And, and the findings of the birefrigent material, I've told you about.
So you've got the superficial erosion,
you've got the chronic inflamation,
both of which are seen microscopically.
You've got the birefrigent material,
found microscopically.
And you've got the absence of a part of the hymen.
Now, that tells you that whatever had been done with this little girl,
and by whomever, had been done one or more times,
previous to the evening, the night, on which she met her fatal tragic end.

That's what it tells you.

That is hard forensic science.

 

[Tadpole12]

Would someone please tell me what you understand the term ""birefringent/birefringment" to mean?

Heyya MF.

I mispelled the word in my first post, but was unable to edit.
Should read, Birefringent Material.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/The-Body

Vaginal Area

Autopsy: External Exam

• Genitalia. "The external genitalia are that of a prepubescent female. No pubic hair is present."
• Dried Blood.

1. Perineum. "On the anterior aspect of the perineum, along the edges of closure of the labia majora, is a small amount of dried blood."
2. Fourchette and Vestibule. "A similar small amount of dried and semifluid blood is present in the skin of the fourchette and the vestibule."

• Hyperemia

1. Definition. "An increased amount of blood in a body part due to such things as inflammation or obstruction preventing the blood from flowing out."
2. Location. "Inside the vestibule of the vagina and along the distal vaginal wall is reddish hyperemia. This hyperemia is circumferential and perhaps more noticeable on the right side and posteriorly. The hyperemia also appears to extend just inside the vaginal orifice."

• Abrasion

1. General Location. "A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1 X 1 cm hymenal orifice."
2. Hymen. "The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions."
3. Specific Location. "The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to the hymen."

• Other Findings

1. Discoloration on Labia Majora.] "On the right labia majora is a very faint area of violet discoloration measuring approximately one inch by three-eighths of an inch."

• No Hemorrhage. "Incision into the underlying subcutaneous tissue discloses no hemorrhage."

1. Red Fluid in Vaginal Vault. "A minimal amount of semiliquid thin watery red fluid is present in the vaginal vault."

• Condition of Anus and Perineum

1. No Trauma. "No recent or remote anal or other perineal trauma is identified." Perineum="The area between the anus and the scrotum in the male and between the anus and the vulva (the labial opening to the vagina) in the female."]
2. Anus Patent. "The anus is patent." (Patent=Open, unobstructed, affording free passage.)

Autopsy: Microscopic Examination of Vaginal Mucosa

• Note. For the analyses that follow, all sections stained with H&E.

1. Chronic Inflammation. "All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation."
2. Epithelial Erosion. "The smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the vaginal wall/hymen, contains epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion."
3. Birefringent Material. "A small number of red blood cells is present on the eroded surface, as is birefringent foreign material." (Definition and examples of birefringent materials are here).
4. "Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen." (Infiltrate="An abnormal substance that accumulates gradually in cells or body tissues.")

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Nah. Nobody's on that bandwagon except the tabs and tab-hired doctors. It made for good sales in the supermarket for quite a while. I wonder how much? How many millions?

I can't find any BPD, CBI, FBI or news outlet that is spending any time at all on the issue of previous abuse.

Its only on this forum...

 

[joeskidbeck]

Would someone please tell me what you understand the term ""birefringent/birefringment" to mean?

I understand it to be material seen when examined with a polarized light. I misspelled it earlier. The correct spelling is birefringent.

 

[Tadpole12]

Well, I thought I'd transcribe parts of the youtubes,
as cynic was so gracious as to post the link.

Finally, for me,
a first hand account from CW.
I'm able to see the genesis of the 'prior abuse' statements.
Consider possible bias of CW , ie as to perps considered.

I tried to post the meat of the matter,
'facts', statements, that do not have to conform
to the perceptions of either contingent,
or necessitate that catagorization.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Nah. Nobody's on that bandwagon except the tabs and tab-hired doctors. It made for good sales in the supermarket for quite a while. I wonder how much? How many millions?

I can't find any BPD, CBI, FBI or news outlet that is spending any time at all on the issue of previous abuse.

Its only on this forum...

Are you saying that anything Dr. Wecht said in the above was in direct conflict with anything written in the autopsy report?

 

[MurriFlower]

Heyya MF.

I mispelled the word in my first post, but was unable to edit.
Should read, Birefringent Material.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/The-Body

Vaginal Area

Autopsy: External Exam

• Genitalia. "The external genitalia are that of a prepubescent female. No pubic hair is present."
• Dried Blood.

1. Perineum. "On the anterior aspect of the perineum, along the edges of closure of the labia majora, is a small amount of dried blood."
2. Fourchette and Vestibule. "A similar small amount of dried and semifluid blood is present in the skin of the fourchette and the vestibule."

• Hyperemia

1. Definition. "An increased amount of blood in a body part due to such things as inflammation or obstruction preventing the blood from flowing out."
2. Location. "Inside the vestibule of the vagina and along the distal vaginal wall is reddish hyperemia. This hyperemia is circumferential and perhaps more noticeable on the right side and posteriorly. The hyperemia also appears to extend just inside the vaginal orifice."

• Abrasion

1. General Location. "A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1 X 1 cm hymenal orifice."
2. Hymen. "The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions."
3. Specific Location. "The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right lateral vaginal wall and possibly the area anterior to the hymen."

• Other Findings

1. Discoloration on Labia Majora.] "On the right labia majora is a very faint area of violet discoloration measuring approximately one inch by three-eighths of an inch."

• No Hemorrhage. "Incision into the underlying subcutaneous tissue discloses no hemorrhage."

1. Red Fluid in Vaginal Vault. "A minimal amount of semiliquid thin watery red fluid is present in the vaginal vault."

• Condition of Anus and Perineum

1. No Trauma. "No recent or remote anal or other perineal trauma is identified." Perineum="The area between the anus and the scrotum in the male and between the anus and the vulva (the labial opening to the vagina) in the female."]
2. Anus Patent. "The anus is patent." (Patent=Open, unobstructed, affording free passage.)

Autopsy: Microscopic Examination of Vaginal Mucosa

• Note. For the analyses that follow, all sections stained with H&E.

1. Chronic Inflammation. "All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation."
2. Epithelial Erosion. "The smallest piece of tissue, from the 7:00 position of the vaginal wall/hymen, contains epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion."
3. Birefringent Material. "A small number of red blood cells is present on the eroded surface, as is birefringent foreign material." (Definition and examples of birefringent materials are here).
4. "Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen." (Infiltrate="An abnormal substance that accumulates gradually in cells or body tissues.")

Thanks Tad,

Now just correct me here if I'm mistaken. Ever since I've been on this forum, several people have maintained there were 'shards of wood', indicating that she had been penetrated by the paintbrush? This they referred to as 'birefringent material' mentioned in the autopsy. Now I find out that the word means merely a substance that bends light, like a crystal!! So, where is the reference to the wood and the paintbrush being used in this manner?

Now back to the actual birefringent material. Was this analysed? I'm thinking that the most likely explanation would be the salt/silica crystals from the rising damp (sometimes referred to as 'mould') on the floor of the wine cellar.

 

[Tadpole12]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxga04YltI&NR=1[/ame]


CW, his take on bedwetting theory:

(0:02)because she wet her bed,
that the mother or father got so angry,
that they, they struck her and ah and and killed her.
Now. That. I don't buy that.
C'mon.
You're gonna,
Bedwetting, you're gonna whack your, your chi(ld).
C'mon. No.
I don't believe that for one moment,

MY God.

They're not savages.

They are, they're decent educated people.

(9:14) .... Cloud of suspicion that can be reasonably stated,
where you have adults in a home,
with no evidence of anybody else being there.

I mean,
My God.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Are you saying that anything Dr. Wecht said in the above was in direct conflict with anything written in the autopsy report?

whadda U think?

Former Allegheny County Coroner Cyril Wecht has never been afraid to offer a contrary opinion, even when everyone else seems lined up against him.

He came to national prominence in the 1970s, when he publicly challenged the Warren Commission’s finding that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. In a study conducted for the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, Wecht disputed the lone-gunman “magic bullet” theory. Wecht argued that Kennedy was struck by two bullets, and that two shooters were involved. His criticism landed him a job as a consultant on the 1991 Oliver Stone conspiracy masterpiece JFK.

In 1979, he examined Elvis Presley’s medical records for the news program 20/20 and disputed earlier autopsy results suggesting Presley may have had cardiovascular disease. The King, Wecht argued, died from a lethal drug cocktail.

In 1997, Wecht examined evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case for the Globe, a supermarket tabloid. Wecht’s opinion was that Ramsey’s death was likely an accident, the result of a sex “game” committed by her father.

http://www.pittsburghcitypaper.ws/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A39852

Are you saying that anything Dr. Wecht said in the above was in direct conflict with anything written in the autopsy report?

I'm sorry, but I don't remember reading anything about a 'sex game committed by JR' anywhere in Dr. Meyers' autopsy report!!

Its probably better when the 'expert' witness limits his testimony to his body of knowledge.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Cyril Wecht Analysis. Chapter 11 of Wecht's book contains a very detailed analysis of the autopsy report and helps interpret it in layperson terms. Note that Wecht did not have access to autopsy slides and other material (including redacted portions of the autopsy report), but he did see autopsy photos provided by the Globe. and it should also be noted that some parts of the autopsy report are still redacted. The following site provides a synopsis of Wecht's Chapter 11 analysis.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/The-Body


Note that Wecht did not have access to autopsy slides and other material (including redacted portions of the autopsy report), but he did see autopsy photos provided by the Globe.

'nuf said.

 

[Tadpole12]

outcome of indictment:

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Wecht[/ame]


On May 14, 2009, the new trial judge dismissed most of the evidence against Wecht because it was seized under illegal and improperly executed search warrant.[30] On June 2, 2009, U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan announced that her office would be filing a motion to dismiss all charges against Dr. Wecht, effectively ending the government's prolonged battle with the ex-coroner and clearing Dr. Wecht of all charges. [31]

 

[cynic]

Thanks Tad,

Now just correct me here if I'm mistaken. Ever since I've been on this forum, several people have maintained there were 'shards of wood', indicating that she had been penetrated by the paintbrush? This they referred to as 'birefringent material' mentioned in the autopsy. Now I find out that the word means merely a substance that bends light, like a crystal!! So, where is the reference to the wood and the paintbrush being used in this manner?

Now back to the actual birefringent material. Was this analysed? I'm thinking that the most likely explanation would be the salt/silica crystals from the rising damp (sometimes referred to as 'mould') on the floor of the wine cellar.

The reference is from here:
On November 5, Detective Weinheimer arrived in St. Clair Shores, Michigan, to meet Dr. Werner Spitz, one of the world’s foremost forensic pathologists. Weinheimer took with him a stack of black-and-white photographs of the cellulose that coroner John Meyer had found in JonBenét’s vagina.
…
Finally, the detectives turned to the microscopic splinter of cellulose found in JonBenet’s vagina, which looked like wood. The broken paintbrush that had been tied to the stick was splintered into shards. Logic suggested that a splinter of wood might have stuck to the perpetrator’s finger before he or she penetrated JonBenét vaginally. It could also have broken off the end of the paintbrush if the stick, rather than a finger, was used to penetrate her.
PMPT Pages 557, 559

 

[cynic]

Well, I thought I'd transcribe parts of the youtubes

I appreciate that, thank you.

 

[Aqua]

Thanks, DeeDee. When I was listening to Dr. Wecht my first thought was latex gloves (when he mentioned the talcom powder), then I listened again and thought I misunderstood what he was saying.
After listening to this interview I am absolutely convinced the good doctor is right. Nothing else makes sense.

Newbie here. I'll admit, this info is over my head .I think Condoms also have a powdery substance on them.

 

[txsvicki]

What about #4 ?

"Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen." (Infiltrate="An abnormal substance that accumulates gradually in cells or body tissues.")

It says that there is nothing to show a gradual inflammatory process. Doesn't that mean that the 7 o'clock position injury was done at the time right before death and the injury wasn't previous? Also, aren't epithelial cells eroded any time we scrape the inside of our mouths or mucus membranes? The erosion was at the 7 o'clock position. Maybe I don't totally understand it all, but it sounds like an injury from a gloved finger or thumb. To me, focal interstitial inflammation sounds like spots of an irritation in the walls, in the cells. I remember looking this up once, and thought it meant vaginitis.

 

[MurriFlower]

The reference is from here:
On November 5, Detective Weinheimer arrived in St. Clair Shores, Michigan, to meet Dr. Werner Spitz, one of the world’s foremost forensic pathologists. Weinheimer took with him a stack of black-and-white photographs of the cellulose that coroner John Meyer had found in JonBenét’s vagina.
…
Finally, the detectives turned to the microscopic splinter of cellulose found in JonBenet’s vagina, which looked like wood. The broken paintbrush that had been tied to the stick was splintered into shards. Logic suggested that a splinter of wood might have stuck to the perpetrator’s finger before he or she penetrated JonBenét vaginally. It could also have broken off the end of the paintbrush if the stick, rather than a finger, was used to penetrate her.
PMPT Pages 557, 559

A bit confused here Cynic

Are you saying that this Dr Spitz saw b&w photos of a microscopic splinter? And from this he deduced that it had come from a broken paintbrush? And he then deduced that it made it's way into her vagina via someone's finger?

Boy, it's hard to understand.

And even harder to work out how he could have made such an assumption from a photo.

 

[CathyR]

Since I am an optician I it rang a bell. I sourced Wikipedia for it.

Applications
A calcite crystal laid upon a paper with some letters showing the double refraction

Birefringence is widely used in optical devices, such as liquid crystal displays, light modulators, color filters, wave plates, optical axis gratings, etc. It also plays an important role in second harmonic generation and many other nonlinear processes.

It is also utilized in medical diagnostics. For example, needle aspiration of fluid from a gouty joint will reveal negatively birefringent urate crystals. Calcium pyrophosphate crystals, in contrast, show weak positive birefringence.[8] In ophthalmology, scanning laser polarimetry utilises the birefringence of the retinal nerve fibre layer to indirectly quantify its thickness, which is of use in the assessment and monitoring of glaucoma. Birefringence characteristics in sperm heads allow for the selection of spermatozoa for intracytoplasmic sperm injection.[9] Likewise, zona imaging uses birefringence on oocytes to select the ones with highest chances of successful pregnancy.[10] Birefringence of particles biopsied from pulmonary nodules indicates silicosis.

 

[DeeDee249]

Newbie here. I'll admit, this info is over my head .I think Condoms also have a powdery substance on them.

The coroner determined that she had not been penetrated by a penis. Rather, he told police he thought her injuries were the result of digital penetration,.

I think the most likely source for the birefringent material is possibly powder from latex gloves, which also have a powdery coating. To suggest it is MOULD in her vagina defies logic. If she had been there long enough to be MOULDY, the evidence would be external as well. And how would "silica crystals???" from the basement floor get up IN her vagina and no where else? If the basement floor is the source for that material, it was carried in on a finger, just as if it was from latex gloves.
I have always felt that the cellulose wasn't a piece of the broken paintbrush itself, but rater small splinters carried on a finger of the hand that BROKE the paintbrush. However, this could still be something LE had asked the coroner not to put in the autopsy, as finding the missing piece of the paintbrush is obviously key evidence and something only the person(s) who were there when it was inserted would know about and not the many people researching the case like we do.

The machinations used to scorn ANYTHING to do with a murdered child's autopsy that MIGHT suggest the parent(s) involvement is getting a little ridiculous.
To suggest that Dr. Wecht is somehow lying or doing anything other than reporting his well-respected professional opinion is absurd. His involvement in a different case where the method of collecting the evidence, without a warrant, (and NOT the evidence itself) has absolutely NO bearing on his findings on the evidence; moreover, he was not in charge of getting that warrant and the judges decision was more reflective on the LE prosecuting that case than Dr. Wecht's autopsy findings.
This presence of birefringent material in JB, whatever its source, and even if sourced to latex gloves (which were found in Patsy's bathroom, a common item for women who color their hair or their child's hair) this need not be limited to RDI. Latex gloves could easily have been among the truckload of items allegedly brought in by an intruder.
Talc from latex gloves works for IDI as well as RDI, as does cellulose from the paintbrush.

 

[DeeDee249]

Since I am an optician I it rang a bell. I sourced Wikipedia for it.

Applications
A calcite crystal laid upon a paper with some letters showing the double refraction

Birefringence is widely used in optical devices, such as liquid crystal displays, light modulators, color filters, wave plates, optical axis gratings, etc. It also plays an important role in second harmonic generation and many other nonlinear processes.

It is also utilized in medical diagnostics. For example, needle aspiration of fluid from a gouty joint will reveal negatively birefringent urate crystals. Calcium pyrophosphate crystals, in contrast, show weak positive birefringence.[8] In ophthalmology, scanning laser polarimetry utilises the birefringence of the retinal nerve fibre layer to indirectly quantify its thickness, which is of use in the assessment and monitoring of glaucoma. Birefringence characteristics in sperm heads allow for the selection of spermatozoa for intracytoplasmic sperm injection.[9] Likewise, zona imaging uses birefringence on oocytes to select the ones with highest chances of successful pregnancy.[10] Birefringence of particles biopsied from pulmonary nodules indicates silicosis.

If the birefringent material was from sperm, I'd say that would be a major finding in the autopsy. No semen was mentioned, and I can't believe there would be a reason to keep that silent. Well- actually I can, if the donor of the semen was someone that the DA didn't want named.
Instead, I'l choose to believe that the people conducting the autopsy and the DA, had a TINY bit of ethical sensibilities and would not keep such evidence secret.
I have also seen it suggested that the refractive material could have been tiny chips of paint from the paintbrush handle. That should have been easy to verify. It is very frustrating that the birefringent material was not tested. Even in 1996, there were methods to test that material and see what it was.

 

[UKGuy]

Well, I thought I'd transcribe parts of the youtubes,
as cynic was so gracious as to post the link.

Finally, for me,
a first hand account from CW.
I'm able to see the genesis of the 'prior abuse' statements.
Consider possible bias of CW , ie as to perps considered.

I tried to post the meat of the matter,
'facts', statements, that do not have to conform
to the perceptions of either contingent,
or necessitate that catagorization.

Tadpole12,
Thats another expert opining on prior sexual molestation, except he describes it as chronic injury etc.

As I say this case is a sexually motivated homicide!

Check out BlueCrab's posts on this forum he has BDI encompassing erotic asphyxiation e.g the vagus nerve etc.

.