Drew Peterson's Trial *THIRD WEEK*

[Cubby]

there was however bruising to both the right & left clavicle ...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...F0xULDoJYrF2QWA8oHABw&ved=0CF4Q9QEwAg&dur=400

I can picture her being pressed into the toilet with these bones coming into contact with the toilet bowl.

thank you, MrsPC! Excellent catch! I missed that previously.

Copying/quoting over your previous post with the two picture links. Just so this info is all in the same post.

someone earlier requested a link to the photo of Savio in the tub

http://www.crimefilenews.com/2012/08/drew-petersons-late-wife-kathleen-savio.html

and I got a screen capture from a news video of the sketch of Savio's injuries front/back.

https://picasaweb.google.com/113834351157927335749/DrewPeterson#5778451500563659426

I thought about it all last night, and now I'm not so quick to rule out a possible toilet drowning.

 

[fifteen89]

This judge might as well declare a mistrial and send Drew on his merry way.

I'll be shocked if the jury convicts him.

let's be real: The Prosecution has not proved their case and that's what i'd be thinking if I was a member of the jury.

JMO.


if I was Kathleen's family i'd be very PO'd at the State.

It's in the back of my mind that DP has proven the case against himself, with a bit of help from Kathleen. If I was on the jury I don't think I could get past his actions and comments + her putting a deadbolt on her bedroom door. Hopefully at least one jury will stand firm for Kathleen.

 

[Cubby]

How do we know what she might have been wearing? I'm not even sure when the last time she was seen by someone. Anybody know? Plus, the last one to see her is always suspect......

IIRC, she was last seen by her neighbors Mary and Tom Pontarelli. They testified the first day or two they had seen her Sat and invited her out with them. KS declined saying she had to study. I'm sure there were plenty of witnesses who saw the Pontarelli's at the dinner engagement they attended that Sat night.

They then testified they saw KS's bedroom light on about midnight (sat night/early Sun am) when they arrived home.


I don't think we know what she was wearing, just that there was no clothing found -anywhere- indicative of having just been removed to take a bath. Whether it be on the floor in the bathroom, bedroom, hamper....

the above is from memory since the trial started.

 

[Cubby]

I'm trying to play catch up. I've watched the tweets and discussions and of course Judge jeanine's show. Have there been any theories about the bruises on her shins? I know about the ridiculous story from the defense about her being on her knees during sex with her boyfriend, but these bruises are not on her knees, any thoughts on this?

Just a guess, but how high is the side of the tub? either from the outside or inside of the tub? It's possible the chin bruising occured while she was being placed in the tub.

Maybe Drew having her in the tub and laying her carefully. He'd put her in feet first trying to get her feet into the position he wanted. Perhaps her chins bumped the side of the tub from the inside rather than the outside of the tub?

just thinking outloud.....

 

[panthera]

I'm trying to play catch up. I've watched the tweets and discussions and of course Judge jeanine's show. Have there been any theories about the bruises on her shins? I know about the ridiculous story from the defense about her being on her knees during sex with her boyfriend, but these bruises are not on her knees, any thoughts on this?

What if the toilet bowl theory is correct, wouldn't it be possible she wasn't kneeling but rather her body weight resting on her shins as she was being held down from behind with her head submerged in the bowl? If it is a tile floor with grout I could envision injury to her shins.

Not that I intend to try this re-enactment!

 

[MrsPC]

from the trial transcript link I previously posted - here is an overview of Savio's condition & injuries (culled both from autopsy #1 by Mitchell and autopsy #2 by Blum)

• tongue was clenched between her teeth
• water "wrinkling" evident on left hand only
• 1x3" abrasion on left buttocks (in orig autopsy there was a bruise, but bruise not evident in 2nd autopsy)
• brain swelling present (normal w/drowning)
• water in the sinuses
• 1" linear laceration to the left side of back of head - caused by object with an edge & it was a light force injury
• negative toxicology
• deep contusion on right lower abdomen - orig autopsy showed 3 distinct bruises but at 2nd autopsy it had evolved into 1 large bruise - contusion all the way to the bone
• blood on nose & cheek from head laceration
• bruise on left breast
• hemorrage on both clavicle areas
• contusion on front left thigh
• bruising on both shins
• abrasions left side of arm
• 2 lesions left elbow
• 2 linear abrasions on right hand - 1 on back of hand oval crater patterned abrasion and the other non-patterned
• blood smears on her back

Blum testified that all bruises & contusions were on front side of body. Scalp laceration & abrasions on back side w/exception of 1 on the arm. There was no bruising to the buttocks or back that normally would be present if someone had fallen in the tub.

 

[Wishbone]

IIRC, she was last seen by her neighbors Mary and Tom Pontarelli. They testified the first day or two they had seen her Sat and invited her out with them. KS declined saying she had to study. I'm sure there were plenty of witnesses who saw the Pontarelli's at the dinner engagement they attended that Sat night.

They then testified they saw KS's bedroom light on about midnight (sat night/early Sun am) when they arrived home.


I don't think we know what she was wearing, just that there was no clothing found -anywhere- indicative of having just been removed to take a bath. Whether it be on the floor in the bathroom, bedroom, hamper....

the above is from memory since the trial started.

Thanks for that! Also, wasn't it Sat nite,late, that she called her boyfriend and said something about him never going to marry her.....I think they were having a spat because he wouldn't come over Sat nite? Am I right?

 

[fifteen89]

It should be. The injury to her head doesn't even appear to be serious enough to have rendered her unconscious in the first place. It would take a pretty forceful hit to render one totally unable to even try to get themselves out of the bathtub. Yet there is absolutely no evidence of anything occurring in the bathtub....nothing is disturbed and her head is at the opposite end of the tub from the only thing that could have caused a head injury, the faucet.

Then, take into consideration DP's statement to the insurance adjuster, where he assumes Kathleen died from a drug-related drowning, then moves on in another conversation to explaining why he wouldn't be called to investigate her death and mentions the word murder. A slip of the tongue, or bragging that he is LE? And remember there were no drugs in her system so why would he insert "drug-related" into it, unless he wanted it to be presumed that way?

And finally, what is the protocol for an on-duty LE officer when he suspects there may be an emergency inside a dwelling? Is it normal to call a locksmith and a neighbor to enter the house with that LE officer remaining outside? Even though this was his ex-wife, if it was possible there was something "wrong" inside the house, why send a civilian in and not call for other LE?

:waitasec:

MOO

And when the civilian neighbors he sent in to look for Kathleen screamed, he runs straight to the correct location in the house WITHOUT DRAWING HIS GUN. If he didn't already know what condition they found Kathleen in, why didn't he pull out his gun and run up to see if there was an intruder in the house?

Can't remember what case it was many years ago but it was a cop who killed his wife and he said something to the detectives at the scene about it being a "justifiable homicide" and the detectives hinky meters went off the charts. imo DP is offering a bit TMI to everyone with his drug-related/drowning comments.

 

[Cubby]

history:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-06-20/news/9706200125_1_oakbrook-center-82nd-theft

"Oak Brook — An employee of Nordstrom, 10 Oakbrook Center, was arrested Saturday after being accused of crediting her credit card account for $2,527, police said. Lisa M. Chlebos, 19, of 4342 W. 82nd Pl., Chicago, was charged with felony theft, police said."

This was some time ago......I didn't think that she would have been only 19 back in 97 though so I wonder if the person cited is the same one.

In any event though, the "Dream Team" of legal "rock stars" is really quite sleazy in many ways. However in her defense, Lisa is quite lovely looking.....even more so in person. I think that she is window dressing for them and I was repulsed at Brodsky pointing out her beauty when introducing his legal team....yes, she is a good looking woman but she is an attorney. It isn't the time of place for such commentary --unprofessional and sexist. IM:moo:O

I think it is the same person, but just an FYI. We are supposed to do the sleuthing and be certain before we link.

And Brodsky commenting on her beauty, no doubt by the direction of his client, who is a sick pig who views women as nothing more than sexual objects. That said, Lisa is very stunning. She's a beautiful woman, but I do not think her looks are relevant to this case and inappropriate for Brodsky to comment about publicly.

 

[Cubby]

It would be interesting if the children someday give a different timeline from what DP has said about their activities/time with Dad that weekend.

I think the crime occured while they were deep asleep.

 

[Cubby]

It's in the back of my mind that DP has proven the case against himself, with a bit of help from Kathleen. If I was on the jury I don't think I could get past his actions and comments + her putting a deadbolt on her bedroom door. Hopefully at least one jury will stand firm for Kathleen.

The deadbolt on the br door scares me, but not in a dv kind of way. It freaks me out to think about firefighters getting into a deadbolted interior door.

I don't think it's relevent now as in today, but I gotta wonder why Kathleen did not install an alarm system. Even if she did not necessarily trust the police, the alarm company would have record. I don't mean this to bash the victim, I just can't help wonder why the choice of the dead bolts versus an alarm.

 

[Cubby]

What if the toilet bowl theory is correct, wouldn't it be possible she wasn't kneeling but rather her body weight resting on her shins as she was being held down from behind with her head submerged in the bowl? If it is a tile floor with grout I could envision injury to her shins.

Not that I intend to try this re-enactment!

lol, I thought about not trying to re-enact either.

Your post made me wonder about the flooring in the bathroom. Is it ceramic or something else?

Also, now that I am over 35 I have to put a towel down on the floor when I clean the bathroom, otherwise my knees are awfully sore from the time and grout.

I think if she was on her knees there might have been some kind of marks, redness or even tiny marks from the area where the grout meets the tile on her knees.

more thinking outloud.

 

[fifteen89]

Despite a judge's order to avoid all news about Peterson, several of the prospective jurors said they found it hard to avoid media reports about him. The 200-person jury pool has been waiting three years for the trial, which was put off because of appellate court battles over the hearsay statements.

Several potential jurors said they had watched a 2011 cable TV movie about the Savio case titled "Drew Peterson: Untouchable," in which actor Rob Lowe portrays the former Bolingbrook police officer.

Many insisted they understood the movie was Hollywood fiction. One potential juror who works as a plumber watched the movie and said it made Peterson look guilty of murder, but he said he could separate the movie from evidence presented during trial.

One man said that when he hears Peterson's name on the radio he switches it off or leaves the room. But the man said that just last week he saw Peterson's photograph splashed across the front page of a suburban Chicago newspaper.

One woman, asked what she thinks she's heard about the case, answered, "Something about a bathtub."

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/national_world&id=8745631

Do we know if any of these potentials made it on the jury?

 

[lonetraveler]

Thought I would bring this here for everyone to see (if it should not be here please delete mods). I thought since the defense team wants to display everything they can find on the witnesses as well as KS it is only fair that we see some of their past behaviors. I just don't understand how they can continue to practice law with some of their convictions.

http://jafovoice.blogspot.com/

So far there are 3 lawyers on Drew Peterson's defense team that are thieves.
Joel A Brodsky - Forged a dead clients signature so he could steal the dead mans money..
Lisa "Chlebos" M Lopez - Acted like Nordstrom's in Oakbrook was her personal ATM.
Ralph E Meczyk - Filed fraudulent tax returns for his law firm and his personal taxes.

you can read the full article at address posted..jmo..sweets

LOL, it appears that Drew Peterson and his defense team were made for each other.

 

[fifteen89]

The problem with that theory is that if he went to all that trouble, he would have put water in the bath tub and put the things you would expect there. Them not being there means it wasn't staged.

<shipped by me>

Doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't staged.....
He might have carefully planned this for months. Years. And yet something went wrong, something took longer than he anticipated and he ran out of time, was worried about being seen at the house or on Kathleen's street and some things were forgotten in the heat of the moment.

 

[panthera]

And when the civilian neighbors he sent in to look for Kathleen screamed, he runs straight to the correct location in the house WITHOUT DRAWING HIS GUN. If he didn't already know what condition they found Kathleen in, why didn't he pull out his gun and run up to see if there was an intruder in the house?

Can't remember what case it was many years ago but it was a cop who killed his wife and he said something to the detectives at the scene about it being a "justifiable homicide" and the detectives hinky meters went off the charts. imo DP is offering a bit TMI to everyone with his drug-related/drowning comments.

Excellent point regarding the neighbor screaming and him knowing exactly where to go inside the house and not even questioning what was happening. If the neighbor hasn't figured out by now that she was set up.......

Yet again, he was in uniform, on-duty, and he's involving himself in and directing this scenario when he should have called for another LE officer to respond to the scene IF it truly were an emergency.



MOO

 

[Wishbone]

The problem with that theory is that if he went to all that trouble, he would have put water in the bath tub and put the things you would expect there. Them not being there means it wasn't staged.

If she was alone then going to the bath naked is not a surprising thing to do. I do it all the time. If this happened to me you wouldn't find a pile of clothes in the bathroom.

Both of the bathtubs in my apartment slowly drain even when stopped. That will happen if the stopper is not perfectly watertight. It is not hard to think that could have happened with her bathtub, if there was enough time. There not being water in the bathtub is not as surprising as you seem to think.

You also don't know exactly what she was doing in the bathroom, you are assuming she was bathing but maybe she was not. It doesn't take much water to drown in.

You also don't know if she was drunk or hung over at the time, things which commonly result in people behaving in ways others don't expect them to.

Doesn't seem very staged to leave the spot cleaner out for all to see.

 

[Cubby]

Thanks for that! Also, wasn't it Sat nite,late, that she called her boyfriend and said something about him never going to marry her.....I think they were having a spat because he wouldn't come over Sat nite? Am I right?

Yes, it was late Saturday night that KS called her boyfriend about something she was upset about.

 

[Cubby]

Do we know if any of these potentials made it on the jury?

Yes they did. IIRC, there were about 200 or so selected for the jury pool about 2 years ago before the trial was delayed. That original group was later called back when choosing the current jurors and alternate jurors.

hth

 

[Cubby]

Excellent point regarding the neighbor screaming and him knowing exactly where to go inside the house and not even questioning what was happening. If the neighbor hasn't figured out by now that she was set up.......

Yet again, he was in uniform, on-duty, and he's involving himself in and directing this scenario when he should have called for another LE officer to respond to the scene IF it truly were an emergency.



MOO

Exactly! And I think the jury will see that too!