Dumpster Search k-9's hit on- Revisited

[Kat]

:doh: Capri, I really don't like the view I'm starting to take about the LE in this case. I try so hard to be non-judgemental in all cases with LE. But good golly...KWIM?

I so hope it's that they refuse to speak about any detail in this case, even at the risk of making them appear inept in the public eye, instead of the investigation really being inept.

JMHO.

 

[Capri]

:doh: Capri, I really don't like the view I'm starting to take about the LE in this case. I try so hard to be non-judgemental in all cases with LE. But good golly...KWIM?

I so hope it's that they refuse to speak about any detail in this case, even at the risk of making them appear inept in the public eye, instead of the investigation really being inept.

JMHO.

I hear ya. I don't know what to think about it yet either, but at the very least, I'd say there have been some glaring oversights.:waitasec:

 

[suspicious1]

Yes Suzanne my common sense leads me to believe that there was something there. That there had to be, but it had been so many days since the night that Haleigh disappeared that it had already been removed, leaving behind enough scent for the dogs to pick it up. JMHO and I am open to changing that opinion if facts come out to dictate otherwise.

I totally agree that something was there in that dumpster. I cannot get pass the fact that not one but 3 cadaver dogs hit on the same location. Why didn't LE just take everything out the dumpster and bring the dogs back in to point them in the right direction?

Where is the location of the dumpster from the MH? Were those blocks, like the one found propping the door open, near that dumpster? Can someone point me in the right direction?

 

[Capri]

I totally agree that something was there in that dumpster. I cannot get pass the fact that not one but 3 cadaver dogs hit on the same location. Why didn't LE just take everything out the dumpster and bring the dogs back in to point them in the right direction?

Where is the location of the dumpster from the MH? Were those blocks, like the one found propping the door open, near that dumpster? Can someone point me in the right direction?

Bolded By Me.

A few answers from Greta's coverage:

"VAN SUSTEREN: Was the material in the dumpster put there recently? Could the material had been next to a dead body and then placed in the dumpster and then hit by the three cadaver dogs?

COURSEY: Police haven't said when the last time the dumpsters was dumped, so we do not know how long the trash has been there.

VAN SUSTEREN: But is the trash exclusively construction trash, or are their clothes or personal trash in there?

COURSEY: No. It's strictly construction. There is a lot of concrete block in there, sidings of mobile homes, a couple pieces of lawn furniture, but that was about it.

VAN SUSTEREN: Who owns the dumpster?

COURSEY: My guess is the adjacent trailer park right on the other side of this fence. It is owned and operated by them. They are the ones who take care of all of that.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anyone in that mobile home area that you know has any relationship whatsoever with Haleigh Cummings family?

COURSEY: Like I said, right where we are--I can see Ronald Cumming's house from where I am right now. Where Haleigh lived is just about a quarter of mile down the road.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501724,00.html

 

[suspicious1]

Bolded By Me.

A few answers from Greta's coverage:

"VAN SUSTEREN: Was the material in the dumpster put there recently? Could the material had been next to a dead body and then placed in the dumpster and then hit by the three cadaver dogs?

COURSEY: Police haven't said when the last time the dumpsters was dumped, so we do not know how long the trash has been there.

VAN SUSTEREN: But is the trash exclusively construction trash, or are their clothes or personal trash in there?

COURSEY: No. It's strictly construction. There is a lot of concrete block in there, sidings of mobile homes, a couple pieces of lawn furniture, but that was about it.

VAN SUSTEREN: Who owns the dumpster?

COURSEY: My guess is the adjacent trailer park right on the other side of this fence. It is owned and operated by them. They are the ones who take care of all of that.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anyone in that mobile home area that you know has any relationship whatsoever with Haleigh Cummings family?

COURSEY: Like I said, right where we are--I can see Ronald Cumming's house from where I am right now. Where Haleigh lived is just about a quarter of mile down the road.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501724,00.html

I know the dumpster was near a fence, so would Misty have to cross or jump that fence to get to that dumpster? I would also like to know how many routes can be taken from the MH to get to that dumpster? I am just so aggravated because there was something in that dumpster but LE didn't catch it.

Let's say that the cinder block came from near or inside that dumpster, would Misty be strong enough to carry it back to the MH to prop the door open with it?

 

[Donjeta]

There were pictures of the fence floating around at one of the forums and it seemed to me like it was possible for a small person to go under the fence. Dunno.

 

[Kat]

I'm not trying to muddy up this thread but I wanted to bump this map up because I read earlier that someone had a question about the dock or something or another...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=768&pictureid=6213


ETA: I don't know how I did that but JWG created that map and I don't see the user name on the map. But that's who did it.

The above picture is a map of the trails the scent dogs picked up. Scent dogs being blood hounds IIRC in this instance.

I don't have any problem with the trail the scent dogs picked up being explained as "off" because they work entirely differently than do cadaver dogs and I understood and accepted the explanation about skin cells floating etc...IIRC that was one of the excuses for the bloodhounds/scent dogs going in different directions.

The cadaver dogs~ no. Three alerted. So I am still thinking that there was something connected to Haleigh (or Haleigh herself) in that dumpster.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

I know the dumpster was near a fence, so would Misty have to cross or jump that fence to get to that dumpster? I would also like to know how many routes can be taken from the MH to get to that dumpster? I am just so aggravated because there was something in that dumpster but LE didn't catch it.

Let's say that the cinder block came from near or inside that dumpster, would Misty be strong enough to carry it back to the MH to prop the door open with it?

I think Misty would be able to carry a cinder block, they are not that heavy. I now wonder if LE was able to match the cinder block with the one at the home? Did they have any fibers or debris that matched the ones in the dumpster? I now wonder if Maybe this is how the van got scratched? Maybe who ever was driving was nervous and wanted to place the body in the dumpster in a hurry. Do we know if the fencing looked damaged? Did they find any paint from the van near that area?
Not that I want this to be the case, but what if (I pray to God I am wrong and Haleigh is alive). But what if she is gone and they wanted to dispose of the body in a hurry? What if that was, what the fight was about and Misty had to go and move the body and she ran out of battery while on the phone with Ron? Or, maybe someone else came along and took the body and moved it?

 

[raeann]

Anyone who has ultimate faith in these dogs or their identified trails should probably take note of the Annie Le case this past week. Her body was inside the building that was repeatedly searched with dogs and yet it was not located for more than 5 days! I do not know if the dogs were the ones who finally located it, or if other evidence led searchers to that place. The point being that if these dogs were 100% reliable----the body should have been located during the first day of the search in which the dogs were used. People are not 100% correct in what they do....no one should expect that dogs will be always correct.
jmoo

 

[Capri]

Anyone who has ultimate faith in these dogs or their identified trails should probably take note of the Annie Le case this past week. Her body was inside the building that was repeatedly searched with dogs and yet it was not located for more than 5 days! I do not know if the dogs were the ones who finally located it, or if other evidence led searchers to that place. The point being that if these dogs were 100% reliable----the body should have been located during the first day of the search in which the dogs were used. People are not 100% correct in what they do....no one should expect that dogs will be always correct.
jmoo

Just for clarification purposes, the dogs that were used right after Haleigh went missing Feb. 10, were not cadaver dogs, but tracking dogs.

Source: First Coast News
"The tracking dog led deputies to a pond and back to Green Drive [map it], Haleigh's street. Deputies looked inside a small building with a door that had been left open. Nothing was inside.

The track continued north past Haleigh's home down Monroe Avenue and onto Buchan Circle, which looped back to Monroe Avenue. The canine officer continued to track down Buffalo Bluff Road but lost the track at the railroad crossing."


The dogs used at the River Villas dumpster site, a little over 2 weeks later, were cadaver dogs.
Source: First Coast News
"Earlier Thursday, cadaver dogs were brought in to scour the woods and fields around the girl's home for any signs of the missing girl.

All morning, the dogs looked through and under a number of people's homes in Haleigh's neighborhood.

"They've been in my home," said neighbor James Batchelor. "They've torn it apart. All the buildings out there they've been in them twice."

The dogs are trained to specifically seek out human remains and are part of Canine South, a non-law-enforcement group specializing in canine searches."

 

[crisnnan98]

Just for clarification purposes, the dogs that were used right after Haleigh went missing, were not cadaver dogs, but tracking dogs.
Source: First Coast News
"The tracking dog led deputies to a pond and back to Green Drive [map it], Haleigh's street. Deputies looked inside a small building with a door that had been left open. Nothing was inside.

The track continued north past Haleigh's home down Monroe Avenue and onto Buchan Circle, which looped back to Monroe Avenue. The canine officer continued to track down Buffalo Bluff Road but lost the track at the railroad crossing."


The dogs used at the River Villas dumpster site, a little over 2 weeks later, were cadaver dogs.

It wasn't till this year that I saw a special on TV that showed the difference between these dogs. The cadaver dogs are specially trained to find human decomp. only. They will not hit on dead animal just human. The tracking dogs are used first of course to find a live person. I am never too old to learn something new!!!

 

[suspicious1]

I think Misty would be able to carry a cinder block, they are not that heavy. I now wonder if LE was able to match the cinder block with the one at the home? Did they have any fibers or debris that matched the ones in the dumpster? I now wonder if Maybe this is how the van got scratched? Maybe who ever was driving was nervous and wanted to place the body in the dumpster in a hurry. Do we know if the fencing looked damaged? Did they find any paint from the van near that area?
Not that I want this to be the case, but what if (I pray to God I am wrong and Haleigh is alive). But what if she is gone and they wanted to dispose of the body in a hurry? What if that was, what the fight was about and Misty had to go and move the body and she ran out of battery while on the phone with Ron? Or, maybe someone else came along and took the body and moved it?

Those are very good questions. I believe that something was in that dumpster related to Haleigh. Now that I think about it, wasn't the van damaged on the left side tail light? I believe that the van was used in Haleighs disappearance that's why the dogs scent trail took LE down Tyler St. IMO, if this bit of information was not significant why does the police report has this street blacked out? Maybe nothing, IDK. I was thinking about the dent in the van and maybe the van hit something (like the dumpster) while driving with the headlights off. You know when someone pull up to an area and quickly turn off their headlights hoping not be seen by anyone. I watch too many movies!

 

[MADJGNLAW]

When Haleigh was reported missing they used tracker dogs, if I am wrong please correct me. Now, if you read the articles at the links below (lost the link for Feb 27th), they used cadaver dogs for the dumpster search as well as another property near the MH. These two areas are of significance to me, but LE will not say anything. The only thing they said about the dumpster was that nothing was found. Problem is, they used "Cadaver Dog" and more than 3 hit!

Friday, February 27, 2009 2:47:28 AM
Putnam County Sheriff's Office News Release

Nothing Found In Dumpster Search

SATSUMA -- The Putnam County Sheriff's Office searched a Dumpster approximately a quarter-mile from the home of missing Haleigh Cummings, 5, Thursday.

Three cadaver dogs alerted on the Dumpster around 3 p.m WJXT-TV
updated 1:15 a.m. ET, Fri., Feb. 27, 2009

Selzer explained that the dogs brought to Satsuma on Thursday have been trained to alert only on the scent of human decomposition, not meat or dead animals. He said the dogs could hit on a something a small as a bandage used to cover a person's bloody cut.

After going through every square inch of the Dumpster, they gave up the search.

"There's several anomalies that can cause a K-9 to hit. We don’t know what's in the mind of the dog. The dog did what's it trained to do. We did what we have to do afterward, which is to search. Everything comes done to the human search, and we found nothing of consequence," said Putnam Sheriff's Office Maj. Gary Bowling. "We don’t know why the dog hit, but there's nothing there that indicates that we need to search any further."

Then we have Posted: Sunday, 12 July 2009

Requests Made for a 2nd Search Near Haleigh's Home
"snip" The property in question is just through the wooded area behind the former home of Ronald Cummings and has a green trailer on in it. The man who lives in the trailer is reported to be a rent-free tennent of a landlord who has granted him permission to reside there.

It is this trailer that has psychics and some members of Haleigh's family convinced that the child's body might be buried there.

Previous comments made by the Putnam County Sheriff's Office and by Major Gary Bowling state that every square inch of the wooded area has been searched and so has the property in question.

These requests have come in to law enforcement ever since Haleigh vanished. One woman told me she was ordered not to contact the sheriff's office anymore with her claims regarding the trailer. http://www.thesky973.com/pages/4785535.php?

 

[TDEllis65]

"Late in the afternoon, three different cadaver dogs alerted on a large trash receptacle in the neighborhood and investigators began a painstaking searching it. After about six hours of scouring through the Dumpster, police said they found nothing that could be linked to the missing girl."

Of note: dumpster search was 17 days after Haleigh went missing.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/18805304/detail.html

My understanding is the all three dogs hit on one corner of the dumpster. My thought is this, what if Haleigh's body were removed from the trailer, carred there and the person that removed her put her next to the dumpster on the ground. Then this person went and got a vehicle, drove it around to the dumpster and then took her body from the area in the vehicle.

 

[Capri]

:Welcome-12-june: TDEllis

Interesting if the dogs all hit on one corner. I didn't remember that-off to see what I can find

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

:doh: Capri, I really don't like the view I'm starting to take about the LE in this case. I try so hard to be non-judgemental in all cases with LE. But good golly...KWIM?

I so hope it's that they refuse to speak about any detail in this case, even at the risk of making them appear inept in the public eye, instead of the investigation really being inept.

JMHO.

Too late.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

When Haleigh was reported missing they used tracker dogs, if I am wrong please correct me. Now, if you read the articles at the links below (lost the link for Feb 27th), they used cadaver dogs for the dumpster search as well as another property near the MH. These two areas are of significance to me, but LE will not say anything. The only thing they said about the dumpster was that nothing was found. Problem is, they used "Cadaver Dog" and more than 3 hit!



Then we have Posted: Sunday, 12 July 2009

They forget the dogs alerted at 3pm in the daylight. The PD brought out lights and did s psuedo search in the dark with some rinky dink lights hooked up...no telling what evidence if any was missed, overlooked or just plainly not seen due to the conditions they were looking under, when in reality all they had to do was put 2 cops on that dumpster until morning and have it transported to a secure area to have it examined thoroughly, like an experienced LE dept. would have and should have done. Geez, I lose an earring and I turn on every light in the house, open the drapes until I find the darn thing and I'm not looking for trace evidence, just an earring.

 

[suspicious1]

My understanding is the all three dogs hit on one corner of the dumpster. My thought is this, what if Haleigh's body were removed from the trailer, carred there and the person that removed her put her next to the dumpster on the ground. Then this person went and got a vehicle, drove it around to the dumpster and then took her body from the area in the vehicle.

Sounds possible to me. If someone carried a dead Haleigh to that dumpster would the smell of decomp be left on the person that carried her?

 

[Dee10]

It takes approx. 20 min. for transfer to occur.

 

[suspicious1]

It takes approx. 20 min. for transfer to occur.

Ok let's just say Misty did something to Haleigh and carried her to the dumpster. If she left Haleigh's body there and walked to Tyler St, would the dogs still pick up the decomp smell to Tyler St.? I guess I'm sayin' it right.LOL!