DY and KH know Terri is lying

[AbbieNormal]

I do not believe that people always lie, just like people always tell the truth. FWIW.

Let's say for a moment that TH's initial statements regarding her whereabouts do not seem to match independent scrutiny-like cell phone pings or bank records. When questioned about that with polygraph equipment, (SPECULATING HERE) let's say the results indicate deception.

Well then it is safe for KH and DY to say or even imply that TH's version of events does not match the evidence-or more simply that she is not cooperating and/or lying.

This does not mean TH is responsible for Kyron's disappearance, but it certainly makes it much more difficult to clear her from the investigation. And that is all LE wants to do. You start inside with the people closest and you eliminate them allowing you to look further away. Time is of the essence and in fact, they are continuing to waste time on TH if she is not involved, because she is not making it easy for them to eliminate her and to focus their efforts elsewhere.

So she needs to take whatever steps that will eliminate her from this inquiry in order to allow LE to find the real perp. That is her job as a parent and as a contributing member of society.

If she was doing something that she would rather hide, the FBI is not going to make it front page news. Kaine and Desiree might-but LE will not. They havent yet. JMVHO.

Here is my question to TH-How much worse can this all really get? Get yourself eliminated from this investigation.....

This is JMO, but when Kaine said that there was one question they just could not get past in the poly with Terri, but he added he could not say what that question was due to it being an ongoing investigation, I am betting that question was "Do you know where Kyron is?"l

 

[grandmaj]

Rumors are anything you can't back up with links...... Do not rumor, do not discuss inside information unless you have been cleared with Tricia as a certified local. Do not rumor about affairs.

What does this do to bring Kyron home? TO's for any rumors.

 

[Noway]

I agree with Jensen's statement as far as saying "you might as well say 'I'm lying'" because that's what came to my own mind immediately.

You might not know the exact times you were at X and Y, but you could certainly remember what places you went. JMO

ETA: And once you listed the places, the times would fall into place. Again JMO.

 

[Wrinkles]

Or...

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html

So which is it? He had no idea until Kyron came up missing or he thought his marriage had fractured within 6 months of baby's birth?

Recently I have been working on a document that considers hindsight, retrospective analysis and how it can make a difference between life and death. Aside from Kaine's head probably being overly swamped with thoughts of "where is my son, is he alive, when can I see him again if he is" (and how do I take care of my little girl, what is best for her, and how do I put back any semblance of order in my life with so much happening, and what is my next step to help LE etc.) -- my guess is that it is also cluttered with some things that he hasn't had time to fully piece together yet. Due to the latter, I believe that we can expect to see some things that are "pieces" strewn together, as he tries to sort things out along the way of being a grieving father hoping for the return of his missing child.

My guess would be that Kaine is doing a lot of restrospective analysis as he can find the time to even face signs he might have missed. I work with parents who are looking at that in cases of having lost their children to a rather insidious disease -- one that hides itself rather well until it takes the life of a child suddenly and unexpectedly. Parents and the knowledgeable doctors to whom they have taken their children have missed "huge" signs disguised as relatively nothing. I'm sure both Kaine and Desiree are looking back..."how could we have missed this." Or, "I saw it, but I could never have imagined it could come to this." Extremely knowledgeable people, those who are trained to focus on certain things, have missed important signs and were never able to quite put it together until after a long time of retrospective analysis. In some cases, there are years before that "looking back" and "piecing together" can be done.

Back to your question:
>>So which is it? He had no idea until Kyron came up missing or he thought his marriage had fractured within 6 months of baby's birth?<<

Perhaps this is helpful...
>>Kaine Horman says it was only after Kyron disappeared that he learned the extent of his marital problems. He says he found out Terri Horman had been complaining to friends behind his back for months about their marriage. But he says she rarely expressed those feelings to him.<<

As per "he thought his marriage had fractured within 6 months..." Well, in my experience of 40+ years married to the same person, fractures AND repairs have happened many times (did I say MANY?) Having seen fractures, both I and my husband wondered about divorce, but always hoped for healing. Kaine might have seen a fracture, but hoped for the best.

Personally, I can see how it could be possible for Kaine to express both that he had "no idea" until Kyron went missing AND that he noticed some type of fracture at 6 months after baby K was born.

Hope the above is helpful.

 

[cypress]

I think the way this is worded may be deceiving, although unintentionally so on the part of the bio parents. Earlier leaked LE reports stated that Terri's cell phone pings contradicted where she said she'd been that day. If she told LE she simply couldn't remember where she was, then how would there be contradictory reports? Pings would be able to place her somewhere, but it wouldn't contradict what she'd said because she would've said she didn't remember where she'd been.

IMHO, this is a case of semantics, much like Desiree's assertion that Terri isn't cooperating.

When Desiree was eventually asked to clarify what she meant by Terri not cooperating, she said it meant that Terri wasn't contacting LE with a statement about how to find Kyron. Similarly, in this case, IMHO, I think Desiree is saying Terri can't remember where she was not because she told police she can't remember anything about where she went that day, because I do believe she told them early on where she went; it's more about evidence they now have contradicting where she'd previously said she was that day.

 

[For The Kids]

I know that's likely true. stranger things have happened though I dont want to believe a precious child is irretrievably gone til I have to KWIM?

Look at the case we had here with Shannon Matthews. It IS possible someone could be holding Kyron for her...although maybe unlikely.

 

[raeann]

I agree with Jensen's statement as far as saying "you might as well say 'I'm lying'" because that's what came to my own mind immediately.

You might now know the exact times you were at X and Y, but you could certainly remember what places you went. JMO

That quote is actually really a bit humorous, since he himself was fired from the police department for LYING about money issues!

same link as above:
http://wweek.com/editorial/3018/4872/

 

[AbbieNormal]

Y'll, I think too much is being read into body language. Example from this week in my life that is still troubling me, last week I was in a roundtable type meeting directly affecting the work that I do. I was taking notes, listening intently, and speaking at times but mostly letting others talk-- that was the point of the meeting. After the meeting, one board member told another, I seemed disengaged and not myself. The other board member said, "I had a lot on my mind due to my divorce." The first board member subsequently called me to inquire. I was floored and astounded. I wasn't disengaged, nothing was on my mind but the discussion and how to bring forth the points being made in an upcoming strategic planning session with the entire board. My divorce was three years ago! I've asked myself over and over, how on earth did they come up with those observations!! I've decided I need a face lift.

My observation is that pretty much everyone has personal issues....but absolutely nothing was on my mind in that regard or any other personal issue that day. This misobservation, hopefully won't but could have an effect on my future employment.

Terri is in a difficult spot. I hope she wasn't involved. I hope Kyron is alive.
Innocent or guilty, she just can't talk at this point. Recently, sorry I can't recall the name, a 20 year old cold case was solved here a month or so ago...a serial killer from out of state. Her fiance at the time, whom I know casually, was always the suspect, didn't do it and it always affected his life to a degree.
My daughter is a step-mother. She's a great one. Orginally, there was alot of animosity...then none...the step and the bio became friends. In May, the 17-year-old moved out on her own..my daughter had nothing to do with it but given the situation would have preferred if that was going to happen that the girl had come to live with her but she won't. The mother is blaming my daughter. My daughter was as astounded as the entire family when the girl left. My daughter, now divorced from the father, is praying for peace in the valley for all parties and that the seventeen year old doesn't throw a promising future away.

I have become a firm believer in body language "reading". Some people think they can read body language and get it all wrong based on PRIOR perceptions or knowledge or even personal feelings they have about the person, sounds like what happened in your case with the meeting. I find it easier to spot stuff when I am interested in a "case" and see videos, etc like in this case with Kyron. But I don't know any of these people personally and have no pre-conceived notions about any of them. Its like a blank slate. Its much easier for me to read a "blank slate" view of body language than it is to, say, sit with all my kids and their spouses while they sit around and talk and "get something" from their body language In fact I rarely take body language into consideration in my everyday RL unless it IS a true crime case or some crap on TV like clips of Lindsay Lohan in court, etc. I do admit when I have already decided a person is guilty of a crime and then I see their body language in a video, my preconceived notion they are guilty make me watch their body language and say ah-hah! That there was a sign of guilt! I need to hone my skills a little better. I think its a fascinating subject.

 

[nyvictoria]

I bizarrely feel angry! I struggled to be fair in my thoughts and only base my opinions on the facts that have been released.

I feel like I wasted a lot of "I dont know, this sounds suspicious but I need more facts" when in FACT I suspected from the first headline I read.

although.....this doesnt mean the outcome must yet be terrible.....please TH, I hope you have only hidden him away somewhere safe....

You summed up my feelings perfectly!!

 

[southern_scout]

Along the lines of "who would hide him for her?" thinking... Is it at all possible that she's spun a story to a close friend about some made-up infraction/abuse by Kaine, or something nefarious involving Kaine (not anything true, mind you) thinking that if this "hit" she put out him came to pass, she could chalk it up to her story and tell the friend "I told you so, see, I was protecting Kyron". Just wildly speculating, MOO. Trying to make a scenario where Kyron is alive and being hidden work in my mind.

 

[Emeralgem]

I'm now convinced Kyron's disappearance has absolutely nothing to do with TH givng a damn about his well being...I'm really scared to think what she may have done to him...That woman's heart is cold as ice...JMO..

 

[AbbieNormal]

Rumors are anything you can't back up with links...... Do not rumor, do not discuss inside information unless you have been cleared with Tricia as a certified local. Do not rumor about affairs.

What does this do to bring Kyron home? TO's for any rumors.

But Grandma, when we have someone that says one thing and then later adds another thing, cant we speculate that what one thing that was said and the other thing go together to give us a possible picture of what was going on? I am having a hard time differentiating between what we are allowed to speculate BASED ON FACTS WE ALREADY KNOW and what is rumor. I know is RUMOR per se that Kaine had affair with Terri. But when Desiree says terri was NOT her friend and then adds Terri lied about how she met Kaine, thats almost begging for some speculation. I certainly don't want a TO (please God, NO!) but I am having a hard time staying within the rules when I am speculating based on facts. Please help!!!!

 

[southern_scout]

I know, my gut says the same thing. And I was not saying she *was* concerned about his well being, but that could be a story she spun to a friend. I think it's pretty clear at this point, with the silence, the lies, the possible hit, that she's not concerned with anyone's well being but her own. Which is terribly sad, considering she has other children to think about. MOO

 

[Donjeta]

It IS an interesting theory, but I don't think it was Terri's intention to sue the school for $$ and that's why she choose to take Kyron away when the school was supposed to be responsible for his safety at that time. I think she took him then because to her it was a perfect way to get rid of him and have the blame put on the school instead of on her. The suing and money issue was secondary, and maybe didn't even occur to Terri at the time. I am under the impression Kaine made decent salary and there was really no need for Terri to pull off such a stunt merely for the possible lawsuit that might ensue later.
I am sure Terri thought she was so clever in her plan that nobody would even suspect she was involved. Boy, was she mistaken.

It's likely that it wouldn't be Terri to benefit from such a lawsuit anyway. Probably no money would be coming the stepmother's way, and if she was planning to end her marriage in a more or less dramatic manner shortly she might not see any of Kaine's money either because litigation takes a lot of time. .

 

[WhyaDuck?]

It's likely that it wouldn't be Terri to benefit from such a lawsuit anyway. Probably no money would be coming the stepmother's way, and if she was planning to end her marriage in a more or less dramatic manner shortly she might not see any of Kaine's money either because litigation takes a lot of time. .

However, if she was planning on inheriting everything from KH's estate, this would not be a bad idea to make sure it was bigger.

IF she thought LE was a bunch of complete incompetents.

 

[SuziQ]

I think she did give LE an alibi at the beginning, but they checked into it and found conflicting information. When they confronted her, it probably went something like this "Oh wait... that's right... I wasn't... oops... where was I again... ummm... I can't really remember... tell you in 10 days?"

This is exactly what I think happened.

 

[eyes4crime]

It just occured to me while watching this video again about Kaine and Desiree.
They are talking about Terri failing the LTD, and being very vocal about it, funny how they believed her on that one!

http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/07/kyron_hormans_parents_share_de.html

Good point - believing Terri seems to be on a PRN (as needed) basis. How convenient! :angel: jmo

 

[AbbieNormal]

It's likely that it wouldn't be Terri to benefit from such a lawsuit anyway. Probably no money would be coming the stepmother's way, and if she was planning to end her marriage in a more or less dramatic manner shortly she might not see any of Kaine's money either because litigation takes a lot of time. .

First they would have to find Kyrons body. Then Terri would have to absolutely eliminated as a possible person of interest in his disappearance, which at this time seems to be difficult/ impossible to do. Then down the road, if Terri was cleared, a lawsuit might be started. You are right, it wold take years. If her intention was to keep Kaine around long enough for a lawsuit to happen so she cold reap the benefits (via the money being Kaine's and she apparently had some carte blanche with his paycheck, or access to is money, as she wasn't gainfully employed ) she would then either have to live w/ a man she previously wanted killed, so she could reap the benefits of the "wealth" from a lawsuit payout, or she would then plan to have him killed (again). So the money would be all hers, I suppose. I think such a plan would definately get her back in the spotlight and there would be little doubt she had something to do with her husbands death. Also, I don't think Terri is that smart. Devious, maybe, but I don't think she plans that far in advance. IMO based on what stupid moves she has made so far. JMO

 

[nyvictoria]

If Kyron is allergic to bee stings, why would DY call it a silly little thing ? Lying about a bee sting if the boy is allergic to them is not a silly little thing!
Allergies to bee stings can be fatal if not treated.

Maybe Terri told DY she realized Kyron was allergic to bee stings? Maybe the lie was that he was allergic? I don't know...I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

[Aedrys]

First they would have to find Kyrons body. Then Terri would have to absolutely eliminated as a possible person of interest in his disappearance, which at this time seems to be difficult/ impossible to do. Then down the road, if Terri was cleared, a lawsuit might be started. You are right, it wold take years. If her intention was to keep Kaine around long enough for a lawsuit to happen so she cold reap the benefits (via the money being Kaine's and she apparently had some carte blanche with his paycheck, or access to is money, as she wasn't gainfully employed ) she would then either have to live w/ a man she previously wanted killed, so she could reap the benefits of the "wealth" from a lawsuit payout, or she would then plan to have him killed (again). So the money would be all hers, I suppose. I think such a plan would definately get her back in the spotlight and there would be little doubt she had something to do with her husbands death. Also, I don't think Terri is that smart. Devious, maybe, but I don't think she plans that far in advance. IMO based on what stupid moves she has made so far. JMO

I've seen a lot of criminals that aren't that smart and thought they could get away with doing things. I do think you're right that she didn't plan this far enough in advance. She seems to have done little planning since things are unraveling so fast for her. I can't tell if she just wasn't smart, or she deluded herself into thinking she had this grand scheme that couldn't possibly fail. I think she thought she was smarter than she actually is. Or maybe like someone else, only plans ten minutes in advance at a time.