Elizabeth Johnson Trial - Day 7 - 6th Day of Prosecution's Case - Tuesday, Oct 2

[leighmarker]

just food for thought, since EJ has been found "crazy' more than once..this just during the preperation for the trial....if she did kill EJ should would have a perfect defense, so why hasnt she used it? I would think if a judge finds you nuts, more than once that would be something to fall back on.
I still dont think she killed him. MOO

 

[wenwe4]

I apologize for the questions. I have not been following the case on this board.

First, why is this case not being televised on In Session? They are running a rerun for WEEKS on the John Goodman manslaughter trial.

Also, I heard that the facts of the case are not in dispute. What can we expect from the defense? Are they not mounting a defense?

IS tweeted (or posted on some format) that they recognized that viewers wanted to watch trails in their entirety and they felt they could better serve their viewers by presenting the entire case without interruptions.

I had to be gone all yesterday and this morning so I'm just now catching up.

A TWO WEEK BREAK???????????????????? I agree, I've never seen anything like this. Totally unfair to the jurors, too.

Wow. I'm speechless.

To be fair....they initially told the jurors there would be a week off from the get go...jurors also thought they would be going well into November before deliberating. Jurors were given an initial trial schedule and told they had specific dates free, in which court would not be in session. Later the court learned they would not have those days off (ie: Columbus Day is no longer off as the courts are now taking off the day after Thanksgiving instead) and asked the jurors if they would be available during the previously scheduled days off. Many of the jurors were unavailable during those dates as they have scheduled other things since given the first schedule. So the court obliged the jurors and agreed to wait 2 weeks to resume.

 

[LambChop]

Do we really believe that some random couple just happened upon EJ and has this child? How do you go from childless one day and having a child the next. They would have family, friends, co-workers who would have thought it was strange to begin with and the next thing you know the baby's picture is pastered all over the media. There is no way a young innocent couple received that baby and is now keeping him hidden. It certainly never happened the way EJ is saying it did. There is no paper trial to show she gave the child away. Someone would know something and there has been no word. It is more likely that there is no one but EJ who knows what happened to Gabriel. And it is more likely than not there was no young couple in the park. jmo

 

[wonders]

Do we really believe that some random couple just happened upon EJ and has this child? How do you go from childless one day and having a child the next. They would have family, friends, co-workers who would have thought it was strange to begin with and the next thing you know the baby's picture is pastered all over the media. There is no way a young innocent couple received that baby and is now keeping him hidden. It certainly never happened the way EJ is saying it did. There is no paper trial to show she gave the child away. Someone would know something and there has been no word. It is more likely that there is no one but EJ who knows what happened to Gabriel. And it is more likely than not there was no young couple in the park. jmo

I could not agree more LambChop. Thank you. I believe EJ did exactly what she said she did the first time Logan asked her where Baby Gabe was.

 

[Oldsoul2]

I have a strong gut feeling that she did not kill Gabriel. Something about the way that conversation went. None of this make sense, I just don't credit her with enough brains to pull this off with zero evidence other than a bogus confession.

I have to agree completely, I don't either. My issue is not her brain capacity though, it's not even her craziness, it;s the fact that she "prepped" the baby, gave him some test that would prove he was healthy in those days, pictures of him happy, fed, clean, a babysitter the days prior, the deal she made with TPS, the fact that she already wanted to have him adopted not kill him way before this all happened and most of all the conversation she had with TPS, which IMO this woman is full of it.

Is it possible, TPS had a buyer for the baby and not in a good way and when the cops caught onto EJ she twisted her story. EJ needed money, said she didn't want to do this alone and Logan wasn't helping her. Maybe TPS thought she found a pot of gold, a meal ticket with a desperate problematic, naive young girl. Maybe, just maybe, EJ went into (let me clarify that I do not say this isn't sick but it happens) mother mode and did give him away to someone else (not in the park I don't believe that story) or in fact killed him thinking she was saving him. EJ sounds very sure when she's talking to TPS who had total control of that conversation IMO that she was trying to follow what she wanted her to do and my impression was that EJ was trying to tell her that she TPS didn't do what she was supposed to on her end. If TPS didn't think there was anything wrong with her intentions, that EJ had custody and simply wanted to help to give Gabriel a better home, she wouldn't have denied the whole thing to EJ in that conversation. I am SURE that she already knew how to cover her own butt should this happen. I think EJ had other back up plans as well, just not sure what those were.

 

[dizzychick]

I thought I heard on the recorded phone call from Logan to EJ that EJ woke up and saw Logan's facebook page, he had been chatting with other girls, EJ said you knew I could do it and you pushed me anyway, you made me kill my little boy.

Noone seems to be focused on this one call that is IMO the smoking gun for murder.

The cop from Arizona stalled so much when asked if she had any info that he was alive I got new hope he was and she just didnt want to spoil the investigation.

As for charges in Texas I dont get it? courts take jailhouses snitches words everyday of a confession and convict based on that alone so why not take an open admission from the defendant herself as proof of the crime?

 

[CarolinaMoon]

EJ and TS are two bizarre women, each with terrific mental issues. Together, they created the mayhem that swirled around the disappearance of Gabriel.

IMHO, if he is alive, it's because Tammi gave EJ a contact in San Antonio. Tammi's connection to SA came from her travels there for her "colonic conferences" and the fact that Jack has at least one relative there. It's possible that EJ hired the baby sitter and went to make arrangements to turn the baby over for an illegal adoption. She then turned the baby over somewhere, if not in the park. It's even possible she was paid a good amount of money for him. She could have received a cashier's check in a false name which is now in a bank account in Miami.

If she killed Gabriel, IMHO, she did so out of the anger she held towards Logan. He knew what she was capable of. She had ripped up two apartments in her furies.

Way back when, I opined that she was a classic abuser. She could batter Logan and he would not hit back. She would always blame Logan for her anger. It was his fault, not hers. She even says so in her calls... "YOU made me do it, it's your fault." If you were to reverse the genders, you could clearly see the pattern. How many abusive men say the same thing to their battered women? It's a classic behavior problem.

That's why I'm still :fence: about Gabriel's fate.

I expect the worst, but hope for the best. The fact is, we may never know.

 

[saba]

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/102012/m5449169.pdf

9/27/2012 Minute Entry

Discussion is held as to the jail call to Elizabeth Johnson.

IT IS ORDERED that the State shall provide the Court with the exact date of the jail call and the names of the people on the tape.


Anybody have any idea what this is about? I thought inmates had to call out- can they receive calls? People on the tape? Conference call? I do remember that Judge K said he was aware of some situation at the jail..

 

[claudicici]

...her even going to San Antonio is the only thing that makes me hope gabe may still be alive.Why would she go there if it wasn't for Tammi sending her there?Why was she getting a sitter if she was just going to kill him?

 

[CarolinaMoon]

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/102012/m5449169.pdf

9/27/2012 Minute Entry

Discussion is held as to the jail call to Elizabeth Johnson.

IT IS ORDERED that the State shall provide the Court with the exact date of the jail call and the names of the people on the tape.


Anybody have any idea what this is about? I thought inmates had to call out- can they receive calls? People on the tape? Conference call? I do remember that Judge K said he was aware of some situation at the jail..

IIRC, that was information about the call between EJ, Tammi, and Channel 5? news reporter played in court.

 

[justice4children]

We are so in sync, Oldsoul2! I also do not believe the couple in the park story. I think TPS is the mastermind behind all of this and EJ is the pawn. I wouldn't be surprised if TPS made " a quick buck" (cash) off this transaction. I too find EJ to have been confident in her conversation with TPS. I would imagine it is a lot easier to get away with adopting a child off the "black market" than some would think. I would also imagine buyers go through great lengths to create a background story before they bring baby home. I just hope that it's a couple who love & spoil him... a poor desperate couple who are just not candidates to adopt by the US standards.

 

[Wishbone]

I thought I heard on the recorded phone call from Logan to EJ that EJ woke up and saw Logan's facebook page, he had been chatting with other girls, EJ said you knew I could do it and you pushed me anyway, you made me kill my little boy.

Noone seems to be focused on this one call that is IMO the smoking gun for murder.

The cop from Arizona stalled so much when asked if she had any info that he was alive I got new hope he was and she just didnt want to spoil the investigation.

As for charges in Texas I dont get it? courts take jailhouses snitches words everyday of a confession and convict based on that alone so why not take an open admission from the defendant herself as proof of the crime?

Here's a little bit about the corpus delicti rule. You can google it for more in depth understanding.........



This Court has long subscribed to a variant of the common law rule that an extrajudicial confession of the accused is insufficient to support conviction unless corroborated. In Texas, as in most other American jurisdictions, the rule has been construed to require independent evidence of the corpus delicti, not merely support for credibility of the confession. Although often inconsistent in our understanding of the term, we have usually held corpus delicti to mean harm brought about by the criminal conduct of some person. Thus, the extrajudicial confession of a criminal defendant must be corroborated by other evidence tending to show that a crime was committed. It need not be corroborated as to the person who committed it, since identity of the perpetrator is not a part of the corpus delicti and may be established by an extrajudicial confession alone. (9)

http://www.cca.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/HTMLopinionInfo.asp?opinionid=18493

 

[dizzychick]

well in looking back I found where EJ told someone the couple took Gabe in the park after they approached her and said they were Tammi's friends.

Next story was the couple went to the hotel and had her sign a 1 paragraph " release" for them to adopt.

Both sound fishy.

 

[dizzychick]

The Elizabeth Smart story was on last night. I recall how LE was fixated on that one man RR and convinced he was guilty, he had a stroke and died in prison even while another lead came in that it was that Emanuel guy. Cops are just people like us they can get their hopes up and see only what they want to see. Unless they have some great leads that this baby has been placed somewhere, I think the most logical obvious answer is the correct one. With EJ's history and motives it looks to me like that is most likely what happened.

 

[Wishbone]

The Elizabeth Smart story was on last night. I recall how LE was fixated on that one man RR and convinced he was guilty, he had a stroke and died in prison even while another lead came in that it was that Emanuel guy. Cops are just people like us they can get their hopes up and see only what they want to see. Unless they have some great leads that this baby has been placed somewhere, I think the most logical obvious answer is the correct one. With EJ's history and motives it looks to me like that is most likely what happened.

Any doubts I may have had went away when it was revealed that Gabriel's pacifier was left in the motel. IMO she did away with him and her crazy violent behavior supports my belief.

 

[LambChop]

Any doubts I may have had went away when it was revealed that Gabriel's pacifier was left in the motel. IMO she did away with him and her crazy violent behavior supports my belief.

Possibly right after she read those posts on Logan's facebook page. jmo

 

[wenwe4]

The most telling thing for me that EJ is capable of killing this child (to spite Logan) and having no remorse for doing so lies in the facts that she ...
1) Had a crying outburst during trial when they were discussing her lies. (not the child)
2) She could not emotionally endure sitting in the courtroom when the evidence of her lies were being played, EJ lying to police, telling different stories to her Gpa about the car, multiple stories about where the baby was (couple in park, couple @ hotel, couple arranged by the Smiths, killed the child).
3) She has shown NO Remorse about giving her child away, being estranged from her baby, killing her child, lying to LE to get them off of the track of finding Gabriel, etc.
4) Pictures of this sweet child in court do not bring any emotions up for EJ - just being caught in her lies.
5) No remorse for never wanting to parent Gabriel - or wanting to adopt him out.
****The parents that I have known who have completed open adoptions, lost custody of their children to the State for issues of abuse and/or neglect, or given their children to family members for kinship/guardianship care - always, always, always have some sense of remorse for not being the parent they wished they could be for their child. *****Often these parents will rationalize - realizing they were not the best placement for the child at the time. Many will blame (the State, their family, other entities) for having something to do with the child not being in their care BUT . . . .there is always some remorse. I have even worked with parents who admit they never bonded appropriately with their child and gave them up for adoption - but there is still some sense of sadness that they were unable to do so.

All I see from EJ is anger, blame, lack of acceptance of her own behaviors/involvement, more focus on making sure Logan DID NOT WIN custody than Gabriel's well being, and emotional outbursts when something comes out that she was attempting to allude/deceive/lie . . . not anything for the health and wellbeing of little Baby Gabriel.

Her emotional responses do not match up with my experience of working with parents who have lost or given up custody of their child(ren).

 

[dizzychick]

So now what? After this trial ends if she gets time served is that it? She just walks away free as a bird?

With people saying Gabriel was illegally adopted that helps her defense and stops any attempt to get to the real truth of what happened to him. This is so sad and look how it sets an example for other young mothers who dont want their kids anymore just drive a few hundred miles and make up a story they were adopted in a park/motel and problem solved...

Not acceptable and I hope and pray someone starts putting her feet to the fire and the authorities need nudging to file charges, if she still refuses to talk after all these years, she is guilty IMO and needs to go to jail for life..

Charging TS w/o charging EJ for murder is down right stupid. The real criminal as yet to pay for this crime IMO

 

[dizzychick]

Possibly right after she read those posts on Logan's facebook page. jmo

thats what ive been saying all along agree fully! She told Logan something like " you knew I could do it and you pushed me anyway, you made me kill my little boy" so Logan knew she could do what? KILL THE BABY THAT IS WHAT! Apparently she is very jealous of Logan talking to other girls and why is that if they are broke up? Does she think she has a right to keep Logan from any females companions...? That poor guy didnt know what kind of fog rolled in on him the day he chose to pair up with her. YIKES

For the life of me I do not see how any LE would not take this as a revenge killing from the get go.

Remember how people would not consider how Casey could do what she was alleged to do..but now we know terrible things happen when you are dealing with mental patients and poor helpless children.

 

[dizzychick]

Any doubts I may have had went away when it was revealed that Gabriel's pacifier was left in the motel. IMO she did away with him and her crazy violent behavior supports my belief.

Notice in one of EJ's stories the new adoptive family brought their own car seat...ok well why didnt they also bring a diaper bag??? and his old bag is missing as EJ told Logan this is where she placed him. It all fits together ..she woke up on December 26th saw his facebook ( wonder what she saw) had one of her fits of rage, did the deed ..she said in one report she wanted a new life w/o a baby and this is what she accomplished. it's not that hard to figure out. As for laying the blame on TS due to her having a need for a baby I think is silly, she may have reasons for wating more children but I do not think any clandestine adopting ring would trust TS and her motor mouth.