Evidence -- Body, Blood, Clothes, etc.

[Noway]

Granted, but if I was innocent and was framed, I'd still be yelling it. Wouldn't give a rat's if anyone believed me. Can't see how sitting in jail would be better off.

It seems that people here are saying Ray was framed for him. I don't see evidence of a frame up.

Stole phone to text Annie.
Stole ID card (or made fake one that worked with electronic system at Yale)
Stole scrubs for DNA. Removed any trace of their own DNA (from handling).
Stole pen to leave as evidence.
Once they killed Annie, they hugged Ray so the transfer of her DNA would be on him.
Convinced Ray to bring wire, fishing hooks and bubble gum to work the next day.

What am I missing?

I just find it too far fetched to believe Ray was framed. If he hadn't done these things, he would have said it during his hours of interrogation with LE. IMO

 

[panthera]

Shlock Homes ~ I believe it has been stated there are no cameras inside the building in the basement. MOO

 

[trigger]

With all the evidence LE has collected 250-300 pieces of evidence left at the scene, makes you say to yourself, this guy was a real jerk. Didn't he ever watch any crime shows?

 

[Emily Booth]

RC was initially interviewed by the FBI and took the polygraph after Annie went missing. RC terminated the interview when he was asked about his cuts and abrasions. Annie was reported missing the evening of Tues Sept 8. RC did not go to softball Tues nor did he go to softball Thurs.

If RC is claiming his cuts and abrasions were due to cats/softball, then they would've occurred before Tues Sept 8. I would think LE would interview teammates and spectators to learn if there were any incidents during the game to cause cuts/abrasions. Cuts from cats are easy to identify since claws are a different shape from fingernails.

I looked at RC's booking photo and his right ear looks pink to me.

 

[Harmony 2]

Granted, but if I was innocent and was framed, I'd still be yelling it. Wouldn't give a rat's if anyone believed me. Can't see how sitting in jail would be better off.

It seems that people here are saying Ray was framed for him. I don't see evidence of a frame up.

Stole phone to text Annie.
Stole ID card (or made fake one that worked with electronic system at Yale)
Stole scrubs for DNA. Removed any trace of their own DNA (from handling).
Stole pen to leave as evidence.
Once they killed Annie, they hugged Ray so the transfer of her DNA would be on him.
Convinced Ray to bring wire, fishing hooks and bubble gum to work the next day.

What am I missing?

I just find it too far fetched to believe Ray was framed. If he hadn't done these things, he would have said it during his hours of interrogation with LE. IMO

~BBM and adding to your list~

7) stole work boots that have RC’s name on them and spattered Annie's blood on them
8) placed RC's DNA in the crawl space where Le's body was found along with her DNA
9) placed blood splattered cleaning items in a place where RC would clean and hide them

sources- http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-yale-student18-2009sep18,0,3083836.story
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_..._a_pen_may_put_creep_in_prison_for_keeps.html

 

[Noway]

RC was initially interviewed by the FBI and took the polygraph after Annie went missing. RC terminated the interview when he was asked about his cuts and abrasions. Annie was reported missing the evening of Tues Sept 8. RC did not go to softball Tues nor did he go to softball Thurs.

If RC is claiming his cuts and abrasions were due to cats/softball, then they would've occurred before Tues Sept 8. I would think LE would interview teammates and spectators to learn if there were any incidents during the game to cause cuts/abrasions. Cuts from cats are easy to identify since claws are a different shape from fingernails.

I looked at RC's booking photo and his right ear looks pink to me.

Do you have a link to him not being at softball (practice?) Tuesday and Thursday? In the meantime, I'll search on my own.

I did find that he was playing softball the day Annie was found (Sunday).

On the day investigators found Yale grad student Annie Le's body stuffed behind a basement wall, her accused killer was playing softball.
Raymond Clark 3rd betrayed no emotion as he played shortstop for his team, the Wild Hogs, in a playoff loss Sunday.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...on_accused_annie_le_killer.html#ixzz0S8YtZnRE
​

From what I've read, he was not acting nervous and his teammates said his behavior was the same as any game.

I had wondered whether Ray was more aggressive at shortstop than usual in order to "cover up" some of his injuries.

Although IMO that would not make much sense since they have photographs of his injuries to some extent (it was at this point that he became nervous and asked for a lawyer).

 

[Sloof]

I wonder if RC knew he was being tailed at some point and then decided to go the "business as usual" route (softball game, etc.) to avoid arousing even more suspicion. I know that LE began more visible means of surveillance at some point, one of the articles written about his POI-ness may say when exactly the surveillance became obvious rather than undercover.

 

[Noway]

I wonder if RC knew he was being tailed at some point and then decided to go the "business as usual" route (softball game, etc.) to avoid arousing even more suspicion. I know that LE began more visible means of surveillance at some point, one of the articles written about his POI-ness may say when exactly the surveillance became obvious rather than undercover.

Annie Le Suspect Knew Cops Were On His Tail

by Paul Bass | September 18, 2009 5:56 PM | Permalink | Comments (44)
(Updated)

A day after playing softball in New Haven and attending the Hebron Fair, the suspect in the murder of a Yale graduate student noticed the seven cops following him around. They wanted him to. ...


... Chief James Lewis assigned Velleca’s crew to follow around Raymond Clark III (pictured) starting Saturday night — and never let him out of their sight.


That was when it became clear that the case of Annie Le, the 24 year-old pharmacology student strangled to death last week inside a Yale medical building, was becoming a criminal case, not a missing person case.

...
Why the narc unit?
“That’s what they do” — follow suspects around, Lewis said. “They do that every night, working narcotics cases. They have the right kind of vehicles for it.” The department recently revamped the unit under Velleca’s command. (Read about that here.)


http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/annie_le_suspec.php

 

[Emily Booth]

RE: RC not going to his softball game Tues and Thurs, I had repeated info I read posted by one of our scientist/researcher posters, someone who is factual and credible, and I didn't think we could quote other posts.

So, I am researching this now and this is what I am finding:

RC played shortstop in an all-mens softball league in New Haven for a team called the Wild Hogs. The summer softball season started Sunday, May 10: http://newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/05/softball_saved.php This article mentions a Wild Hogs game on Monday night. You can see a photo of some of RC's teammates at the bottom of the article.

The New Haven softball schedule is Monday and Wednesday evenings and Sunday mornings. This is their website: http://newhavenumpires.clubspaces.com/PageCustom.aspx?id=69&o=321953 This is their facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1468514717 This schedule info conflicts with a newspaper article below.

There was a playoff game Wed Sept 9 and Sun Sept 13. Emails were sent Tues Sept 8 about the game Wed: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1468514717#/profile.php?id=1468514717&v=wall

The softball game that took place on the day Annie Le's body was found (the same day as her wedding) was a playoff game. RC liked to wear a David Wright Mets jersey: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...ops_closed_in_on_accused_annie_le_killer.html

RC was a newcomer to the all-male league and joined the Wild Hogs this year: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/breaking/Yale-Student-Murder-091709-59606437.html But, he played with one of his teammates' brothers last year for a different league: http://www.middletownpress.com/articles/2009/09/23/news/doc4abaee605354b522932592.txt. It is this article that mentions the Wild Hogs were without their shortstop Tuesday, September 24. Was this a newspaper error?

Maps of New Haven softball fields. The Wild Hogs played their games at Blake or East Shore: http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/parks/recreation/adult.asp

We know RC played softball on Sunday Sept 13. Did he play softball Sun Sept 6 and Wed Sept 9?

 

[Emily Booth]

Found it! The fall Wild Hogs softball schedule is on Tuesdays and Thursdays at the CT Sportsplex: http://www.ctsportsplex.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=132&Itemid=410

Looks like their fall schedule started Tuesday September 22. So, the newspaper article was correct for their fall schedule.

We still don't know if RC played softball Sun Sept 6 and Wed Sept 9. I'm going to post this question in the other thread.

Whew!

 

[eyes4crime]

Found it! The fall Wild Hogs softball schedule is on Tuesdays and Thursdays at the CT Sportsplex: http://www.ctsportsplex.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=132&Itemid=410

Looks like their fall schedule started Tuesday September 22. So, the newspaper article was correct for their fall schedule.

We still don't know if RC played softball Sun Sept 6 and Wed Sept 9. I'm going to post this question in the other thread.

Whew!

I think your line of questioning about the suspected perp Clark, before, during and after the crime is important, and will yield interesting and pertinent info. I would include this info in my time-line except I've learned not to confound a TL with multiple people. I try to keep it simple. Hopefully, a TL of Clark will be put together by a blogger using this great information. He is a most interesting character. mho

 

[Kat]

Nancy Grace is talking about the evidence found in the washroom drain and the discussion is about the scrubs and if it could be possible to even get them down into this drain. She's also asking how LE became aware of the evidence, whether a drain was clogged and a plumber called, who in turn called LE, or if LE was called before the plumber. NG is also questioning why LE didn't thoroughly go through the lab (drains, etc) before they cleared the crime scene. No mention what the "new evidence" is though! :waitasec:

This may or may not present a problem to the prosecution. We will have to wait and see.

I wanted to bang my head against the wall when I heard this though...sigh.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Granted, but if I was innocent and was framed, I'd still be yelling it. Wouldn't give a rat's if anyone believed me. Can't see how sitting in jail would be better off.

It seems that people here are saying Ray was framed for him. I don't see evidence of a frame up.

Stole phone to text Annie.
Stole ID card (or made fake one that worked with electronic system at Yale)
Stole scrubs for DNA. Removed any trace of their own DNA (from handling).
Stole pen to leave as evidence.
Once they killed Annie, they hugged Ray so the transfer of her DNA would be on him.
Convinced Ray to bring wire, fishing hooks and bubble gum to work the next day.

What am I missing?

I just find it too far fetched to believe Ray was framed. If he hadn't done these things, he would have said it during his hours of interrogation with LE. IMO

Good points!

Texts - you don't need a phone to send a text. Did the police say that the texts originated from Ray Clark's phone? They could have been sent from a PC, it's been done. Otherwise, we can also assume the text Ray sent was legit and he didn't just send it to entrap her in a murder. Perhaps Annie Le was just a target of convenience? Didn't someone mention a series of texts or emails that were sent to people around campus? I can't remember what that was all about.

ID Cards - they can be stolen or faked. Maybe even the records can be hacked into. Or Ray was legitimately going to those rooms because he had business going there. It was September 8th, the beginning of the school year. His routines would not be the same than if you were talking about mid term like November. If Ray did kill her and was going to the trouble of concealing her body, he would also conceal his card swipes. All he had to do is take her card off her body. Problem solved. Did they say if her card was on her body?

Stolen Scrubs - They could have done that, and worn their own scrubs and gloves to prevent their own DNA from rubbing on the victim. What was the clothing found in the ceiling? Did they ever identify if they were men's or women's clothing? I take it that Ray wouldn't come to work in his scrubs, so I think by the same token, he'd leave them at work. So where would he leave it? In a locker with a lock? Or just hanging somewhere?

Stolen Pen - not unusual. If Ray put it down, someone could have picked it up. If he left it in his scrubs, and he took off his scrubs, then they'd have access to the pen too. Is there any testimony from students that Ray talked about losing his pen? Did anyone find it weird that he was using a different pen? We're assuming, of course, that reports that he preferred that pen are true.

Annie's DNA on Ray Clark's clothes - that is harder to explain. Which clothing did they find it on? Was it clothing they know he wore that week? Or was it clothing from weeks earlier? If he had killed her with particular clothing on, then there would be blood, right? Then he would have destroyed that evidence long ago. And her DNA couldn't be on him, unless he didn't wash for a week and a half.

The fishing hooks, wire and gum - who saw him with this the next day? Is that why the police looked at him funny in the first place? If he was going to fish out his pen, he wouldn't literally use fishing hooks. It would be very difficult to get a pen with that contraption. Even MacGyver couldn't do that. Gum would require pressure to make it stick enough to pick up the pen. He'd be better off using something like fly paper on the end of a string. And he certainly wouldn't do it during the day time when people were around.

We don't know what Ray said to LE. They're only telling us what they want us to hear to build their case against Clark in the public media.

 

[Shlock Homes]

~BBM and adding to your list~

7) stole work boots that have RC’s name on them and spattered Annie's blood on them
8) placed RC's DNA in the crawl space where Le's body was found along with her DNA
9) placed blood splattered cleaning items in a place where RC would clean and hide them

Thank you for the links. I like how they use a 'source', nothing from law enforcement is credited with the evidence.

Work boots - where were these kept, at his apartment or in the lab? If he had killed her with them, he would have disposed them. When did the police find this damning piece of evidence?
DNA in crawl space - Again, this could be achieved by taking the DNA from his work clothes. They did not disclose the exact location of this DNA. Was it on Le's body? Did she have his skin cells under her nails?
Blood Spatter Items - when was he seen doing this? Why was he given access to the crime scene if they were worried about contaminating or hiding evidence? One person might see hiding, while another person might see tidying up. Was he told not to touch anything and still did it, or was he trying to move stuff around so investigators could get a better look at the area? He was the lab tech, after all, and not some random student, so keeping the place organized was his job.

Clark's supervisors said his work with them gave no indication this was possible. In other words, no history of dangerous confrontations or incidents worthy of his termination.

 

[Sola.N]

(snipped)
The fishing hooks, wire and gum - who saw him with this the next day? Is that why the police looked at him funny in the first place? If he was going to fish out his pen, he wouldn't literally use fishing hooks. It would be very difficult to get a pen with that contraption. Even MacGyver couldn't do that. Gum would require pressure to make it stick enough to pick up the pen. He'd be better off using something like fly paper on the end of a string. And he certainly wouldn't do it during the day time when people were around.
(snipped)

Y'know, that story about the fishing hooks and gum has bugged me, too. A little wad of duct tape would have done the trick. I don't think gum would work at all for this.

I'm not at the point where I'd go so far as to say RC didn't do it, but there are definitely some things about the case that's being built in the media that just don't make sense.

 

[Shlock Homes]

I had posted this question in another thread, but pulled it because I misunderstood the thread. This was in the Question and Answer thread and the link was posted there regarding the first paragraph below:

For the failed polygraph test, it's not clear what exactly made him fail it. When he was asked if he had seen Annie Le that morning, he said yes, he didn't say no. And when he said yes, he failed the test? Does that mean he didn't see her? Or did they ask him questions that would have made him fail, like 'did you feel Annie Le treated her mice properly', and he said 'yes'?

Notice all of these stories just quote a 'source'. Most people would not view that as reliable testimony, unless the source was part of law enforcement. They're just feeding the media bits and pieces of evidence that look like they point to guilt, but when you look deeper, like the polygraph test, you're only being fed a whole lot of insinuation.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Y'know, that story about the fishing hooks and gum has bugged me, too. A little wad of duct tape would have done the trick. I don't think gum would work at all for this.

I'm not at the point where I'd go so far as to say RC didn't do it, but there are definitely some things about the case that's being built in the media that just don't make sense.

The main problem is that the media is quoting unnamed sources. They don't even say if these sources are from law enforcement or what, when it comes to the evidence against Clark. And a lot of it is very subjective. For example, if Ray Clark was seen washing his hands thoroughly on Sept 9th, a 'source' could have said 'it was suspicious that Ray Clark was washing his hands, as if he was trying to hide something'. You know what I mean? It's all insinuation that doesn't necessarily point to true evidence.

 

[eyes4crime]

I had posted this question in another thread, but pulled it because I misunderstood the thread. This was in the Question and Answer thread and the link was posted there regarding the first paragraph below:

For the failed polygraph test, it's not clear what exactly made him fail it. When he was asked if he had seen Annie Le that morning, he said yes, he didn't say no. And when he said yes, he failed the test? Does that mean he didn't see her? Or did they ask him questions that would have made him fail, like 'did you feel Annie Le treated her mice properly', and he said 'yes'?

Notice all of these stories just quote a 'source'. Most people would not view that as reliable testimony, unless the source was part of law enforcement. They're just feeding the media bits and pieces of evidence that look like they point to guilt, but when you look deeper, like the polygraph test, you're only being fed a whole lot of insinuation.

Not sure I follow your thinking. Are you suggesting LE asked questions assuring that Clark would fail the polygraph? Even though the LD is not admissible in court, I'm not sure why LE would intentionally cause it to be a 'false positive'. Can you?

 

[Shlock Homes]

Not sure I follow your thinking. Are you suggesting LE asked questions assuring that Clark would fail the polygraph? Even though the LD is not admissible in court, I'm not sure why LE would intentionally cause it to be a 'false positive'. Can you?

To be quite honest, I don't know the answer to that. I'd have to see the questions asked. If they thought the other students were not so suspicious, but they though Clark was suspicious, then they might frame the questions in such a way that would implicate him. That bias could affect the outcome of the test. Or, it could just be that he is anxiety prone. Someone posted a link to an article where they interviewed some previous neighbours. One kid said the guy seemed crazy and controlling because Clark yelled about some stuff left in the hallway. Another kid described what sounded like the same situation, but said it was a one time thing and it was regarding trash in the hallway. That same kid also said Clark wasn't very friendly, like he'd acknowledge you by waving his hand but not looking at you. That might point to him being somewhat introverted, perhaps not someone who is confident around people, and thus an anxiety prone personality?

 

[Emily Booth]

I would think a standardized list of questions applied to everyone would be used? For example, do you know where Annie Le is? The answer is either yes or no.

Someone with a borderline personality with sociopathic tendencies would be a loner.