EVIDENCE - Pro and Con #2

[sweet bee]

How true, and poor Skylar--so trusting of her "pals". I followed her case in the media, and not on Websleuths, if I remember correctly. I'm sure WS has all the links to their social media. Reading up on this will be interesting for sure. Those two were diabolical.

So pretty and so dangerous. Google their names with "twitter" and they pop right up.

 

[NWLady]

O/T but interesting never-the-less regarding no-body homicide cases...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...year-quest-for-justice-and-answers/ar-AA9MyOm

There have been 435 such trials known in U.S. history, according to statistics kept by Tad DiBiase, a former assistant U.S. attorney in the District, and the author of “No-Body Homicide Cases: A Practical Guide to Investigating, Prosecuting, and Winning Cases When the Victim is Missing.”

Prosecutors typically use some combination of witness testimony, confessions or DNA found in blood stains at the crime scene. In the Lyon sisters case, after 40 years, and with the searches being outside, finding physical clues is particularly challenging.

Indeed, should prosecutors try to bring such charges in the Lyon case — with no physical evidence — it would represent the longest known duration ever between a person’s disappearance and a trial, according DiBiase.

Still, he stressed that such an effort could be successful. Of those 435 trials he documented, nearly 90 percent ended in convictions. “It certainly can be done,” he said.

 

[bestill]

I woke up in the middle of the night last night thinking about Heather. My mind started the "what if's" and the "why's".

I've been reading some of the social media pages and all of the doubt and smear that the M's supporters are trying to create. Suggesting that Heather committed suicide, she ran off, her dad had something to do with it, she was the stalker, etc...

So for arguments sake, let's say that the M's didn't have anything to do with Heather's disappearance. If that were the case, I have a few "why's"
1)Why did SM not cooperate with LE from the beginning?
2)Why did SM lie about the phone calls?
3)Why did TM create drama and interject herself into the FHEFB page, the searches, taunt the Elvis family and searchers...etc?

IMO I think a person with nothing to hide would have been cooperative from the very beginning to help find Heather, would have embraced the searchers and allowed LE to search everything they needed to search (of course with an attorney's guidance), would never have tried to be a victim or jealous of the attention that Heather was getting and would not have attacked the actual victim and her families character.

All of my why's and what if's still lead me to believe that the ones arrested for Heather's murder are the right people.

 

[lstiff]

I woke up in the middle of the night last night thinking about Heather. My mind started the "what if's" and the "why's".

I've been reading some of the social media pages and all of the doubt and smear that the M's supporters are trying to create. Suggesting that Heather committed suicide, she ran off, her dad had something to do with it, she was the stalker, etc...

So for arguments sake, let's say that the M's didn't have anything to do with Heather's disappearance. If that were the case, I have a few "why's"
1)Why did SM not cooperate with LE from the beginning?
2)Why did SM lie about the phone calls?
3)Why did TM create drama and interject herself into the FHEFB page, the searches, taunt the Elvis family and searchers...etc?

IMO I think a person with nothing to hide would have been cooperative from the very beginning to help find Heather, would have embraced the searchers and allowed LE to search everything they needed to search (of course with an attorney's guidance), would never have tried to be a victim or jealous of the attention that Heather was getting and would not have attacked the actual victim and her families character.

All of my why's and what if's still lead me to believe that the ones arrested for Heather's murder are the right people.

I tried to play it out several times with the M's NOT being involved and I just can't. Even if (very small minute if) they didn't physically kill HE, they (at least SM) were in contact with her that night and it would have to be the worst luck possible in the world if something bad happened to her that night that they were not involved in. I see what you are saying but there just doesn't seem to be anything else that fits the TL and evidence. IMO

I do believe in innocent until proven guilty but with charges filed, I feel now I'm okay to play it out both ways and just can't do it without at least 1 M being involved. I pray that the trial helps answer some questions for the missing links in the TL. *fingers crossed*

 

[NFYIAMY]

I tried to play it out several times with the M's NOT being involved and I just can't. Even if (very small minute if) they didn't physically kill HE, they (at least SM) were in contact with her that night and it would have to be the worst luck possible in the world if something bad happened to her that night that they were not involved in. I see what you are saying but there just doesn't seem to be anything else that fits the TL and evidence. IMO

I do believe in innocent until proven guilty but with charges filed, I feel now I'm okay to play it out both ways and just can't do it without at least 1 M being involved. I pray that the trial helps answer some questions for the missing links in the TL. *fingers crossed*

I've done that, too.....and I hope the Prosecutor points all of that out to a jury. IF they weren't involved then WHY did they lie....etc. If they aren't guilty - they sure acted as a guilty person might!

 

[stillwatersc]

I woke up in the middle of the night last night thinking about Heather. My mind started the "what if's" and the "why's".

I've been reading some of the social media pages and all of the doubt and smear that the M's supporters are trying to create. Suggesting that Heather committed suicide, she ran off, her dad had something to do with it, she was the stalker, etc...

So for arguments sake, let's say that the M's didn't have anything to do with Heather's disappearance. If that were the case, I have a few "why's"
1)Why did SM not cooperate with LE from the beginning?
2)Why did SM lie about the phone calls?
3)Why did TM create drama and interject herself into the FHEFB page, the searches, taunt the Elvis family and searchers...etc?

IMO I think a person with nothing to hide would have been cooperative from the very beginning to help find Heather, would have embraced the searchers and allowed LE to search everything they needed to search (of course with an attorney's guidance), would never have tried to be a victim or jealous of the attention that Heather was getting and would not have attacked the actual victim and her families character.

All of my why's and what if's still lead me to believe that the ones arrested for Heather's murder are the right people.

Why did Heather drive to PTL after speaking with SM?
Why did Heather call SM after she arrived at PTL?

Sure looks like she was set up.

 

[SeeAlice]

HE received the call from SM at aprox 1:35 AM. He told HE he was leaving TM for her. I’m not going to speculate if this was the truth or part of the trap, but this is known for sure to be said by SM. HE was understandably upset and called BW. BW later said she told HE to "not do it". That's kind of vague. Not do what? Meet up with him? "Be with" him? Call him back? Maybe I'm reading too much into that vagueness but it seems like it's worth clarifying.

[

snipped & bolded by me for focus

Do we know this for sure? We know for sure the roommate says that HE said that's what he told her.

Just saying.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

I woke up in the middle of the night last night thinking about Heather. My mind started the "what if's" and the "why's".

I've been reading some of the social media pages and all of the doubt and smear that the M's supporters are trying to create. Suggesting that Heather committed suicide, she ran off, her dad had something to do with it, she was the stalker, etc...

So for arguments sake, let's say that the M's didn't have anything to do with Heather's disappearance. If that were the case, I have a few "why's"
1)Why did SM not cooperate with LE from the beginning?
2)Why did SM lie about the phone calls?
3)Why did TM create drama and interject herself into the FHEFB page, the searches, taunt the Elvis family and searchers...etc?

IMO I think a person with nothing to hide would have been cooperative from the very beginning to help find Heather, would have embraced the searchers and allowed LE to search everything they needed to search (of course with an attorney's guidance), would never have tried to be a victim or jealous of the attention that Heather was getting and would not have attacked the actual victim and her families character.

All of my why's and what if's still lead me to believe that the ones arrested for Heather's murder are the right people.

IMO...

1)Why did SM not cooperate with LE from the beginning?
2)Why did SM lie about the phone calls?

1. at first, LE did not have hard proof (phone logs) so, SM thought he could be nonchalant and casually state that he did not talk to or see Heather. Once that evidence was produced then, he changed his tune.
2. as far as the pay phone goes, SM was not planning on that call being tracked back to him. That's why he used a pay phone in the first place. He didn't foresee Heather calling someone else and telling them that she spoke to SM or any other details.
3. it was probably SM & TM's plan from the beginning to "play dumb"/innocent all along if they were ever questioned by LE since they had a "full-proof plan" in place (or at least a super-great hiding place for Heather's body).
4. if SM didn't conspire this crime with TM (which is doubtful), then I could see it would be possible that SM was trying to hide the fact that he was still communicating with Heather from TM.

3)Why did TM create drama and interject herself into the FHEFB page, the searches, taunt the Elvis family and searchers...etc?

Same as #3 above.

 

[bestill]

Why did Heather drive to PTL after speaking with SM?
Why did Heather call SM after she arrived at PTL?

Sure looks like she was set up.

After supposed months of no contact! And coincidentally this all happens the last night she's heard from.

 

[bestill]

IMO...

1)Why did SM not cooperate with LE from the beginning?
2)Why did SM lie about the phone calls?

1. at first, LE did not have hard proof (phone logs) so, SM thought he could be nonchalant and casually state that he did not talk to or see Heather. Once that evidence was produced then, he changed his tune.
2. as far as the pay phone goes, SM was not planning on that call being tracked back to him. That's why he used a pay phone in the first place. He didn't foresee Heather calling someone else and telling them that she spoke to SM or any other details.
3. it was probably SM & TM's plan from the beginning to "play dumb"/innocent all along if they were ever questioned by LE since they had a "full-proof plan" in place (or at least a super-great hiding place for Heather's body).
4. if SM didn't conspire this crime with TM (which is doubtful), then I could see it would be possible that SM was trying to hide the fact that he was still communicating with Heather from TM.

3)Why did TM create drama and interject herself into the FHEFB page, the searches, taunt the Elvis family and searchers...etc?

Same as #3 above.

I see what you're saying, but it all points to the fact that they were involved. That is what I'm saying, with what we know now, and we still don't have the state's evidence, they are the ones responsible for Heather disappearing.

 

[NFYIAMY]

snipped & bolded by me for focus

Do we know this for sure? We know for sure the roommate says that HE said that's what he told her.

Just saying.

If you think back - her roommate had no reason to 'create' something about SM - when she was questioned - Heather was simply 'missing'. Why would her roommate make something like that up? Seems to me that Heather must have told her he said that - and it would make no sense for Heather to say that if SM hadn't just said it to her. KWIM?

 

[sweet bee]

They're guilty as ***** for sure, but I could see TM interjecting herself anywhere concerning HE. Even if HE never went missing, I feel like if she got a new job, TM would be there to ruin it. If she decided to move (out of the city/county/state), TM would be there to ruin it and make sure she knew that TM & SM knew where she was going. I think that particular aspect isn't surprising at all.

 

[sweet bee]

snipped & bolded by me for focus

Do we know this for sure? We know for sure the roommate says that HE said that's what he told her.

Just saying.

I agree, but BW doesn't have a reason to lie. She said this before she knew SM was suspected (I believe).

 

[Surfside]

HE received the call from SM at aprox 1:35 AM. He told HE he was leaving TM for her. I’m not going to speculate if this was the truth or part of the trap, but this is known for sure to be said by SM. HE was understandably upset and called BW. BW later said she told HE to "not do it". That's kind of vague. Not do what? Meet up with him? "Be with" him? Call him back? Maybe I'm reading too much into that vagueness but it seems like it's worth clarifying.

snipped & bolded by me for focus

Do we know this for sure? We know for sure the roommate says that HE said that's what he told her.

Just saying.

If you think back - her roommate had no reason to 'create' something about SM - when she was questioned - Heather was simply 'missing'. Why would her roommate make something like that up? Seems to me that Heather must have told her he said that - and it would make no sense for Heather to say that if SM hadn't just said it to her. KWIM?

I agree, but BW doesn't have a reason to lie. She said this before she knew SM was suspected (I believe).

I don't see where SeeAlice is saying that BW was making up the story of SM claiming to be leaving his wife. I don't see where she doubted that SM said it to Heather, either. Sweet Bee factually stated, "this is known to be said by SM." I took SeeAlice's post to mean that we don't know "for sure" that SM said that to Heather or that Heather said it to BW. Even if we all suspect that it all happened that way, we don't know any of it "for sure." Only BW knows what Heather said to her, and only Heather knows what SM said in their conversation. I fully believe that Sidney said those words to Heather and that Heather told her roommate, but I wasn't on those phone calls, so I have know way to ever know for certain. None of us do.

 

[tabinmaine]

I don't think SM saying that to HE is "known for sure" at all.... that was what HE's friend said she told her, which that I believe, however.... HE may not have heard those exact words from SM, she may have said it to her friend to justify seeing him again because she knew her friend did not approve of him, or he may have said other things and HE made it out to be more than it really was... because that is what SHE wanted to hear...... so in other words, I am not convinced SM ever said that, she may have been lying to her friend

 

[Motherof5]

I don't think SM saying that to HE is "known for sure" at all.... that was what HE's friend said she told her, which that I believe, however.... HE may not have heard those exact words from SM, she may have said it to her friend to justify seeing him again because she knew her friend did not approve of him, or he may have said other things and HE made it out to be more than it really was... because that is what SHE wanted to hear...... so in other words, I am not convinced SM ever said that, she may have been lying to her friend

So Heather lied to BW? OR.....SM lied to Heather in an effort to lure her out and to her death. Considering that SM called Heather from a payphone,lied to LE about it and then admitted it when confronted with phone records and video and had yet another conversation with Heather that has her running out to PTL where her phone goes dead. He started the contact that night and he was the last phone conversation that she had. All of that together sure points to SM as the lying liar who lies and not Heather,the victim. JMO

 

[sweet bee]

I don't think SM saying that to HE is "known for sure" at all.... that was what HE's friend said she told her, which that I believe, however.... HE may not have heard those exact words from SM, she may have said it to her friend to justify seeing him again because she knew her friend did not approve of him, or he may have said other things and HE made it out to be more than it really was... because that is what SHE wanted to hear...... so in other words, I am not convinced SM ever said that, she may have been lying to her friend

I think thats a great point I hadn't thought of! BW isn't lying, because that's what she heard...but I guess I never questioned what Heather said to Bri. You're right, she might've twisted it in a way to bri, I know I do that crap all the time with my friends/family. She didn't wanna hear a whole spiel. Or, you're right, she was making it out to be more than it was. I guess it's hard to tell, without more information.

 

[bestill]

I'm considering what's been said that Heather may have intimated to Bri more or something that wasn't true to rationalize seeing/talking to SM. That could be. I think that the phone histories and pattern of the calls are going to be very telling, what happened in the few weeks leading up to Heather disappearing and what happened after she disappeared.

 

[tabinmaine]

So Heather lied to BW? OR.....SM lied to Heather in an effort to lure her out and to her death. Considering that SM called Heather from a payphone,lied to LE about it and then admitted it when confronted with phone records and video and had yet another conversation with Heather that has her running out to PTL where her phone goes dead. He started the contact that night and he was the last phone conversation that she had. All of that together sure points to SM as the lying liar who lies and not Heather,the victim. JMO

oh I don't disagree that SM called HE from a payphone, and I don't know the reason behind it, but what I am not convinced of is what was said, and I am not sure that what HE's friend Bri said is the truth. I don't think Bri is lying, but I am not sure that HE didn't make up the whole "leaving his wife" thing to convince Bri she should go see him that night or make Bri believe that they really just might end up together , kind of a fairy tale story thing ..... she may have embellished what was said to maybe sway Bri towards agreeing that she should go and meet SM that night.....

 

[Motherof5]

oh I don't disagree that SM called HE from a payphone, and I don't know the reason behind it, but what I am not convinced of is what was said, and I am not sure that what HE's friend Bri said is the truth. I don't think Bri is lying, but I am not sure that HE didn't make up the whole "leaving his wife" thing to convince Bri she should go see him that night or make Bri believe that they really just might end up together , kind of a fairy tale story thing ..... she may have embellished what was said to maybe sway Bri towards agreeing that she should go and meet SM that night.....

I understood you,I was simply disagreeing.