EVIDENCE - Pro and Con #2

[nosysw]

OT Aaron Hernandez just found guilty of 1st Degree murder with no eye witness, no video tape, no weapon, no confession. Discussion from FOX News attorney panel, Judge Napolitano, "it's not the quality of the evidence, it's the behavior that preceded the murder - classic 1st degree murder in this case". Atty Lis Wiehl, "circumstancial evidence is thought to be the poor kid on the block, not as good as direct evidence, but that's how cases are built brick by brick by the prosecution, it may take a while for the jury to get it".

The state of South Carolina must do the same thing with Heather's case, build it brick by brick.

I sure hope this is the case! Thanks for the quote- it brings hope

 

[ZooSleuth]

Public records are just that. Public records.

Sure, they can redact all day day long. But, when a tax-funded public court system, elected official, local or state run agency hides, skews, or withholds public information, records and documents, I tend to get a little concerned myself.

It's not a matter of what news agency gets butt-hurt over not receiving requested public information, but how our Local and State officials do not even abide by the law and State Constitution!

The Public Official's Guide to Compliance with the Freedom of Information Act (.pdf)

Are you saying they are not abiding by the law in regards to the documents released in the Heather Elvis case or in other, unrelated situations/cases?

 

[cujenn81]

Public records are just that. Public records.

Sure, they can redact all day day long. But, when a tax-funded public court system, elected official, local or state run agency hides, skews, or withholds public information, records and documents, I tend to get a little concerned myself.

It's not a matter of what news agency gets butt-hurt over not receiving requested public information, but how our Local and State officials do not even abide by the law and State Constitution!

The Public Official's Guide to Compliance with the Freedom of Information Act (.pdf)

However...
Section 30-4-40 states this exemption about the release of public records:

(3) Records of law enforcement and public safety agencies not otherwise available by state and federal law that were compiled in the process of detecting and investigating crime if the disclosure of the information would harm the agency by:
(A) disclosing identity of informants not otherwise known;
(B) the premature release of information to be used in a prospective law enforcement action;
(C) disclosing investigatory techniques not otherwise known outside the government;
(D) by endangering the life, health, or property of any person; or
(E) disclosing any contents of intercepted wire, oral, or electronic communications not otherwise disclosed during a trial.

While I stand behind the FOIA, and 100% agree that details of an investigation should be released to the public, I also believe there are specific details that should be redacted (depending on the situation, of course).

For instance, BW & SS's names should have been PROPERLY redacted from those police reports before they were released by the media. And, if I'm not mistaken, MHCN was the one who released those reports in such a poorly redacted manner. Keeping that type of information out of the public's eye is often necessary to protect innocent victims from harassment or possible retaliation from a criminal. And, while BW &/or SS may have spoken out to the media in the past, or whether they're speaking out on social media now, they might not feel the need to do so had their names been properly protected.


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[PeterThomasFan]

Are you saying they are not abiding by the law in regards to the documents released in the Heather Elvis case or in other, unrelated situations/cases?

BBM

What documents released? My point exactly.

Waccamaw Publishers had to file a lawsuit and then an appeal to obtain the release of search warrants in this case. Yet, still got the run-around by Magistrate Butler and Judge John without ever receiving a copy.

Waccamaw Publishers requested the search warrants on February 21st, 2014. The gag order wasn't signed off until a month later on March 21st, 2014. Yet, Judge John uses the gag order as an excuse for not to release them.

So now that everyone has seen the search warrants, I ask what information in those documents are so damning that could possibly jeopardize the case? Why were they even withheld after a request from the [free]press? What other public information is being withheld from the public eye? Since the court did not release these documents, who did then?

 

[PeterThomasFan]

However...
Section 30-4-40 states this exemption about the release of public records:

(3) Records of law enforcement and public safety agencies not otherwise available by state and federal law that were compiled in the process of detecting and investigating crime if the disclosure of the information would harm the agency by:
(A) disclosing identity of informants not otherwise known;
(B) the premature release of information to be used in a prospective law enforcement action;
(C) disclosing investigatory techniques not otherwise known outside the government;
(D) by endangering the life, health, or property of any person; or
(E) disclosing any contents of intercepted wire, oral, or electronic communications not otherwise disclosed during a trial.

While I stand behind the FOIA, and 100% agree that details of an investigation should be released to the public, I also believe there are specific details that should be redacted (depending on the situation, of course).

For instance, BW & SS's names should have been PROPERLY redacted from those police reports before they were released by the media. And, if I'm not mistaken, MHCN was the one who released those reports in such a poorly redacted manner. Keeping that type of information out of the public's eye is often necessary to protect innocent victims from harassment or possible retaliation from a criminal. And, while BW &/or SS may have spoken out to the media in the past, or whether they're speaking out on social media now, they might not feel the need to do so had their names been properly protected.


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I agree with you. I understand that the law also states that sensitive information can (and should) be redacted. I also understand the complexity of investigative information and surely hope it will be protected. I just don't think any of these codes apply in this particular case (search warrants being released). IMO

 

[cujenn81]

I agree with you. I understand that the law also states that sensitive information can (and should) be redacted. I also understand the complexity of investigative information and surely hope it will be protected. I just don't think any of these codes apply in this particular case (search warrants being released). IMO

My apologies. For some reason I thought you posted the MHCN link (about the redactions) in response to the convo going on regarding BW/SS and the gag order. As for the search warrant, I don't see anything that could potentially harm the case, or outside individuals (assuming nothing is learned about the person LE took the cell phone from in the roadway---he could be another LE officer, for all I know) in them either.


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[lovinlife83]

I don't know about the time... but I know one person was wondering (with much intensity) if HE was wearing the watch upside down based on the location of the dial switch (or perhaps they were insinuating the photo had been altered).

FWIW---The location of the watch's dial is irrelevant because several brands place the dial on the left, and it has nothing to do with being right/left handed. The company Nixon, for example, puts the dial on the left on all of their watches. I have several & they're actually much more comfortable, as I wear watches on my left wrist.


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RSBM: I think the majority of us agreed that she didn't even have the time set. Apparently, "kids these days" wear watches more as an accessory than a timepiece.

I eventually found our original discussion at the end of thread 10. Even in the 400x zoom in thread 10 I can't see an hour hand, just the long minute hand looking like it's :05. The hour hand looks to be lost in the glare somewhere to me. It could very easily say 10:05 IMO. I'm older than HE and I only wear watches as an accessory, the time is wrong on the only one I own and I would never actually look at it to determine time (I'm in my 30's and use my phone too). I agree about winder knobs coming both ways.

I'm pretty sure they aren't making much of a point over on the crazy page, I just remembered that we had researched it too and wanted to remember what we determined. There were a few opinions on our threads but it was dropped.

 

[bestill]

Wish one of the crazy pages would discuss Josh Michael...really would love to know who that is and why the phone was "taken" in the roadway.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Haven't discovered anything yet myself @bestill.

 

[ZooSleuth]

BBM

What documents released? My point exactly.

Waccamaw Publishers had to file a lawsuit and then an appeal to obtain the release of search warrants in this case. Yet, still got the run-around by Magistrate Butler and Judge John without ever receiving a copy.

Waccamaw Publishers requested the search warrants on February 21st, 2014. The gag order wasn't signed off until a month later on March 21st, 2014. Yet, Judge John uses the gag order as an excuse for not to release them.

So now that everyone has seen the search warrants, I ask what information in those documents are so damning that could possibly jeopardize the case? Why were they even withheld after a request from the [free]press? What other public information is being withheld from the public eye? Since the court did not release these documents, who did then?

I see what you mean. Maybe it had something to do with people being shot at, guns being pulled, harassment, and the other shenanigans that took place? The missing persons report (or whatever report it was that was poorly redacted) seemed to spark a lot of the drama. They may have just wanted it to play it safe with the release of info after all that.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Anyone have a theory on why the trial date was delayed? No updates or reason given.

There should be a reason stated in the motion to court.

 

[cujenn81]

BBM:

ETA: GRRRR! I meant to quote the following from ZooSleuth (hence the BBM), but I don't know how to do it after the fact.

I see what you mean. Maybe it had something to do with people being shot at, guns being pulled, harassment, and the other shenanigans that took place? The missing persons report (or whatever report it was that was poorly redacted) seemed to spark a lot of the drama. They may have just wanted it to play it safe with the release of info after all that.

I was thinking the same thing earlier.

I mean... think about it... if the names had been properly redacted, it's possible we wouldn't have known who the married man in the report was until the M's were arrested. TM probably wouldn't have felt the need to defend herself on FB with her now infamous rant. . . you know, the one about how SM cheated on her with "some psycho who has since went missing". (The phrasing of that sentence speaks volumes, by the way. . . "who has since went missing".)

Anyway, that rant marked the beginning of the FB Soap Opera (which is a travesty, in and of itself). She lashed out at a missing 20-year-old girl by badmouthing her and then publicly admitted her husband had an affair with her. And well, once the world knew SM was the Married Man mentioned in the report, TM's pride had to let everyone know that the affair meant nothing, that Heather was a nobody... a ... a long forgotten "three times in the backseat" memory, and that she "could care less" because she had her own man on the side. Here's a tip, TM: It's COULDN'T CARE LESS. You just admitted that yes, actually, you could care a little less.
(And, for the record, Heather... if you can hear this or see this or even feel this... God bless your beautiful soul; you were none of those things.)

TM's post made them both look guilty, and her subsequent posts made herself look desperate, and cruel, and heartless, and attention-seeking, and I could go on. After that, the back and forth and round-and-round-we-go bickering began, which led to threats, obstruction of justice charges, harassment reports, vandalism, shots fired, a gag order, and the whole nine yards. I actually think it's possible that if SM's name had been protected, there wouldn't be a need for a gag order. But, who knows? The end result could still be what it is today even if the report had been redacted properly, but unfortunately, there's no way we'll know now.

 

[jillycat]

I'd really like to know why the mutual agreement to postpone trial.

 

[jillycat]

OT Aaron Hernandez just found guilty of 1st Degree murder with no eye witness, no video tape, no weapon, no confession. Discussion from FOX News attorney panel, Judge Napolitano, "it's not the quality of the evidence, it's the behavior that preceded the murder - classic 1st degree murder in this case". Atty Lis Wiehl, "circumstancial evidence is thought to be the poor kid on the block, not as good as direct evidence, but that's how cases are built brick by brick by the prosecution, it may take a while for the jury to get it".

The state of South Carolina must do the same thing with Heather's case, build it brick by brick.

If it's not built by now, it never will be.

 

[Motherof5]

OT Aaron Hernandez just found guilty of 1st Degree murder with no eye witness, no video tape, no weapon, no confession. Discussion from FOX News attorney panel, Judge Napolitano, "it's not the quality of the evidence, it's the behavior that preceded the murder - classic 1st degree murder in this case". Atty Lis Wiehl, "circumstancial evidence is thought to be the poor kid on the block, not as good as direct evidence, but that's how cases are built brick by brick by the prosecution, it may take a while for the jury to get it".

The state of South Carolina must do the same thing with Heather's case, build it brick by brick.

Thank you for posting this!!!!:tyou:

 

[bestill]

Anyone have a theory on why the trial date was delayed? No updates or reason given.

There should be a reason stated in the motion to court.

Could it be because of a witness health issue? One that should be resolved in August? I'm wondering if that is is it.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

I'd really like to know why the mutual agreement to postpone trial.

Could it be because of a witness health issue? One that should be resolved in August? I'm wondering if that is is it.

Like @jillycat said. Why would they both be in agreement? The Defense was even pressing for a speedy trial. :thinking:

A postponement would typically be in favor of the Defense but, in this case, if the State was seeking more evidence, awaiting further lab results, or waiting on a "star" witness for health issues, you would think that the Defense would object immediately. Why then would they go along with it?

And, on another note, if the M's feel they are so innocent, then why wouldn't they want evidentiary findings to become available — proving they are in fact innocent? I have yet to hear a statement from them or their Attorneys stating that they hope she is found. That, finding Heather could prove their innocence.

BBM

In American procedural law, a continuance is the postponement of a hearing, trial, or other scheduled court proceeding at the request of either or both parties in the dispute, or by the judge sua sponte. In response to delays in bringing cases to trial, some states have adopted "fast-track" rules that sharply limit the ability of judges to grant continuances. However, a motion for continuance may be granted when necessitated by unforeseeable events, or for other reasonable cause articulated by the movant (the person seeking the continuance), especially when the court deems it necessary and prudent in the "interest of justice."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuance

 

[magnolia]

Anyone have a theory on why the trial date was delayed? No updates or reason given.

There should be a reason stated in the motion to court.

I would like to know why a new trial date has not been set.

 

[Motherof5]

If the person posting on FB really is SS,Heather's date, he's either lying now or he lied before. He's saying that Heather asked him in but he didn't stay long. Before,he said that he dropped Heather off because she said she was tired. I'm thinking this is not the real SS.

 

[Surfside]

If the person posting on FB really is SS,Heather's date, he's either lying now or he lied before. He's saying that Heather asked him in but he didn't stay long. Before,he said that he dropped Heather off because she said she was tired. I'm thinking this is not the real SS.

I don't know what would motivate him to be dishonest or change his story, but I do believe that's him. When we first learned his name, I looked him up and found that very profile. I've visited in occasionally since then, too. It's been the same one for at least a year or so. The only thing I've seen him change is his privacy settings. There isn't as much to see as there once was. :twocents: