Evidence revealed during the course of the Wrongful Death action

[Ausgirl]

I have no idea what a dungeon is-except the popular club in New Orleans (which is awesome btw). I thought BSDM was about sex. Or kink or at least had leanings toward . It's not a sexual thing of some sort? I've read many of your postings where you've been able to kind of translate that world to us in a very articulate way. . .

It's a bit too off topic to expound on here, but while I *was* proficient in complex 'Japanese' suspension bondage and other related skills, there was no direct sexual element to the work I did. I also, as manager, dealt with both clients and workers all day, and with a psych and sociology double degree up my sleeve, I spent a lot of time silently analysing the behavioural aspects of it all. It was a very interesting and fulfilling job.

You know, when I first saw Rebecca's case, my first thought was "she was being raped by a BDSM fetishist" and that she went over the balcony trying to get away. It was the leash-like rope, bindings, dog bone near the bed, all of it very fetishistic. I'm still not sure that wasn't part of the staging. (eta -- and I about crapped a brick when I read later about the "Asian bondage " - ) And while I have seen first hand some of the truly weird stuff people are into behind closed doors, I still can't see this woman who took pride in herself and spent all day (a day I'd have spent curled up in bed crying my damn eyes out) driving people around in the MOST awkward situation imaginable.. she pulled herself together and played taxi for the Shacknais.. some of whom were hardly friendly.. My point being, she just did not have any precursor behaviour to such a devastatingly humiliating act. Plus, all the stuff that doesn't add up, evidence-wise...

But yeah, I kaiboshed the BDSM theory, though the bindings look very familiar to me. I may have more to say about those, at some point.

 

[*Lash*]

I will have to read through Ann's book again. I can't seem to get it to open up on my iPad anymore now that I've updated the system! Frustrating.

“And so was the master bedroom that Rebecca had reportedly shared with Jonah. It was much more lushly furnished than the small room with the balcony. In this master bedroom, small-sized women’s clothing—a pair of blue jeans, a white undershirt, and a black, long-sleeved top—were folded neatly on the bed.

Williams bagged and labeled the clothing. She also removed a clump of black hair that clung to the wall of the shower in the en suite master bathroom, and collected samples from trickles of red fluid on the shower floor.

Moving to the guesthouse, Williams took men’s clothing from the floor of the south master bedroom there: blue jeans, boxer briefs, a black T-shirt, and black socks. She found and saved for evidence a long strand of dark hair in the bathroom attached to this bedroom.”

Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.”

 

[screecher]

My point is that just because the Zahaus allege the clothes are gone, doesn't make it a fact. LE states they were folded on the bed, and you obviously think that is not a fact.

Just to be clear. Are you saying LE stated Rebecca's clothes (the ones she wore that day and into the evening) were folded on the bed...and those were the ones that were collected and labeled as such? Do you have a link? TIA

Sorry! I mean Ann Rule states that a detective collected and labeled them as such. But I'm treating that as a fact.

Ah...I see. oops. So Ann Rule stated it, said they were labeled 'as such'. Labeled as exactly what? Such as what? The clothes Rebecca was wearing that day?

“And so was the master bedroom that Rebecca had reportedly shared with Jonah. It was much more lushly furnished than the small room with the balcony. In this master bedroom, small-sized women’s clothing—a pair of blue jeans, a white undershirt, and a black, long-sleeved top—were folded neatly on the bed.

Williams bagged and labeled the clothing. She also removed a clump of black hair that clung to the wall of the shower in the en suite master bathroom, and collected samples from trickles of red fluid on the shower floor.

Moving to the guesthouse, Williams took men’s clothing from the floor of the south master bedroom there: blue jeans, boxer briefs, a black T-shirt, and black socks. She found and saved for evidence a long strand of dark hair in the bathroom attached to this bedroom.”

Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.”

BBM

Sooo, Ann said they were 'labeled' as "a pair of blue jeans, a white undershirt, and a black, long-sleeved top" and nothing more. Correct?

 

[LuckyLucy2]

As to the actual allegations that the Zahaus have filed with the court, how did the twins outrun Rebecca in the courtyard? She was said to "run like a gazalle".

And how did she have no defensive wounds?

 

[bourne]

As to the actual allegations that the Zahaus have filed with the court, how did the twins outrun Rebecca in the courtyard? She was said to "run like a gazalle".

And how did she have no defensive wounds?

Asked and answered. Multiple times. If you don't want to accept the differences in opinion, you don't have to. But it's time to move on.

 

[bourne]

Just to be clear. Are you saying LE stated Rebecca's clothes (the ones she wore that day and into the evening) were folded on the bed...and those were the ones that were collected and labeled as such? Do you have a link? TIA



Ah...I see. oops. So Ann Rule stated it, said they were labeled 'as such'. Labeled as exactly what? Such as what? The clothes Rebecca was wearing that day?



BBM

Sooo, Ann said they were 'labeled' as "a pair of blue jeans, a white undershirt, and a black, long-sleeved top" and nothing more. Correct?

Yes, I'd like to know where were Rebecca's underwear if these were her clothes during the day and she took a shower? What happened to her underwear? Why are they missing? Which brings us back to Lash's point which is that the clothes Rebecca was wearing that day of her murder had suddenly *vanished* just like Jonah's mysterious vanishing suicide-trigger voicemail. How convenient for the murderers...

 

[justice be served]

The really disturbing part is that the investigators were satisfied with their work or shall I say their selective investigation. It is really sad to think any one of us could be subject to that same incompetency should a tragedy happen in our family. I really hope that this lawsuit will bring about change in the department and a higher authority looks into it. I'm just really incensed at the investigative department. I cannot believe this has happened in the US. It has really colored my vision of fairness and the realities of our injustice system.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Yes, I'd like to know where were Rebecca's underwear if these were her clothes during the day and she took a shower? What happened to her underwear? Why are they missing? Which brings us back to Lash's point which is that the clothes Rebecca was wearing that day of her murder had suddenly *vanished* just like Jonah's mysterious vanishing suicide-trigger voicemail. How convenient for the murderers...

Rebecca slept in the nude. Perhaps she did not wear underwear on a regular basis. Jonah would have known if she did or not.

IMO, the clothes on the bed were the ones Rebecca wore on that Tuesday.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

The really disturbing part is that the investigators were satisfied with their work or shall I say their selective investigation. It is really sad to think any one of us could be subject to that same incompetency should a tragedy happen in our family. I really hope that this lawsuit will bring about change in the department and a higher authority looks into it. I'm just really incensed at the investigative department. I cannot believe this has happened in the US. It has really colored my vision of fairness and the realities of our injustice system.

The death was throughly investigated, and to say it wasn't is a fantasy. There were 15 investigators that worked "around the clock" for seven weeks...including those from the DOJ and FBI. It was clear that it was a suicide to those investigators who saw and know the actual evidence.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Asked and answered. Multiple times. If you don't want to accept the differences in opinion, you don't have to. But it's time to move on.

Bourne, you have answered the question with other theories...she may have been in the shower, she may have been asleep. However, that is not what the lawsuit alledges. As yet, no one has given me an answer on how she could not get away from the twins in the courtyard, as the Zahaus alledge? At the time, they say she was unrestrained. Why didn't she just run away?

 

[MissUnderstood]

“And so was the master bedroom that Rebecca had reportedly shared with Jonah. It was much more lushly furnished than the small room with the balcony. In this master bedroom, small-sized women’s clothing—a pair of blue jeans, a white undershirt, and a black, long-sleeved top—were folded neatly on the bed.

Williams bagged and labeled the clothing. She also removed a clump of black hair that clung to the wall of the shower in the en suite master bathroom, and collected samples from trickles of red fluid on the shower floor.

Moving to the guesthouse, Williams took men’s clothing from the floor of the south master bedroom there: blue jeans, boxer briefs, a black T-shirt, and black socks. She found and saved for evidence a long strand of dark hair in the bathroom attached to this bedroom.”

Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.”

How did this hair become stuck to the wall and were the blood trickles under it??? That seems kind of important how those things came to be there. Was it determined to be Rebecca's hair and blood?


MOO!!

 

[LuckyLucy2]

How did this hair become stuck to the wall and were the blood trickles under it??? That seems kind of important how those things came to be there. Was it determined to be Rebecca's hair and blood?


MOO!!

I have long hair and after I put in conditioner I finger comb my hair, then put the loose hair on the wall instead of letting it go down the drain. That's what IMO, that hair was from.

 

[Ausgirl]

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

Wecht said Zahau's head injuries – which caused bleeding underneath her scalp – would have occurred while she was still alive or in the minutes shortly after her death. He said it is impossible to determine whether Zahau's head traumas would have rendered her unconscious.

"A blow or blows sufficient to produce subgaleal, subscalpular hemorrhage could be sufficient for someone to be knocked out, just temporarily, not to produce any damage to the brain, not to cause any prolonged unconsciousness; but one cannot say," Dr. Wecht said. "They are clearly indicia of some kind of blunt force trauma. So, for someone to say there is no evidence whatsoever of any kind of a struggle is not correct.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth


------------But I wonder:

"hair pulling can result in scalp and hair injury. ... (Figure 10) If the traction is severe, the scalp may be lifted off the calvarium and result in a subgaleal hematoma.

*** (warning: horrible images)
https://books.google.com.au/books?i...age&q=subgaleal hematoma hair pulling&f=false

I can't see on the autopsy report whether there was any damage to the hair roots above the four hemorrhage sites... But I'm wondering if they could have been caused by violent hair pulling. It's a major cause of subdermal scalp bleeding.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

^ There was nothing noted about Rebecca having had wads of hair pulled out in the autopsy.

In your quote, Wecht says that it is "impossible to deternime" if the small bumps knocked Rebecca out, but they "could" have. He goes on to say "they would not have caused any prolonged unconciousness", yet the Zahaus want the court to believe that Dina, Nina, and Adam had her knocked out for at least an hour - while they cleaned up, vaccumed (even though it is obvious in the LE photos the carpet was not vaccumed), sat on the bed, put paint on her nipples, trussed her up with rope, made her put her fingers on the rope knots, on the bedframe, on the door frame, etc.

Impossible. So how are the Zahaus going to prove that?

 

[Ausgirl]

There's no mention of the condition of her scalp *above* the four hemorrhage areas, either.

But there *are* clumps of hair in the shower. Were they ever tested for root tags? it's pretty easy to test whether hair fell out or was yanked out. Were those tests conducted? I would hope so, seeing this was (during evidence-gathering) supposedly was a suspicious death.

It's actually pretty difficult to pull out a handful of healthy, firmly rooted hair. It may be possible to yank the hair violently enough to pull it away from the scalp, yet (especially in a well groomed person) not yank out heaps of loose hairs, or enough to cause a visible bald patch. If there was mention of a close examination of the scalp surface for injury, that'd help - but there's no record of the ME even looking.

Hair-pulling or attack to the scalp region might also explain those three vertical scratches on her forehead.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

^ So would the tree with thorns that was right under where she fell/jumped off the balcony.

 

[Ausgirl]

Actually, it was off to the side a bit. Was there any blood/skin found on ANY of those thorns? Were the plants even examined for her skin cells? One would hope so, as they feature heavily in ME and police reports regarding how she got so beat up. One would hope that wasn't all just guesswork. Especially in light of the sub-dermal scalp bleeding and clumps of hair in the shower.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Here are two picture of the tree with the thorns. Rebecca would have most definitely impacted it when she fell or jumped, IMO.

 

[MissUnderstood]

I have long hair and after I put in conditioner I finger comb my hair, then put the loose hair on the wall instead of letting it go down the drain. That's what IMO, that hair was from.

That does not leave blood on the floor though!!


MOO!!

 

[kittychi]

Here are two picture of the tree with the thorns. Rebecca would have most definitely impacted it when she fell or jumped, IMO.

So the answer is "no" isnt it. They did not check the thorns for skin or blood. It was guesswork like so many other pieces of this "investigation." Guest house panties come to mind.

And we know that thorny cactus has been long gone from the Spreckels grounds, IMO lest someone have any evidence left to examine.