Evidence revealed during the course of the Wrongful Death action

[*Lash*]

Ok. Just to be clear. Nina Romano's answer leaves out a few things:

-It does not say who the book belonged to. Just that it was a book found in a room RZ used as an office.
-It does not say Nina read in RZ's investigative file that SDSO found a book on rope binding method. Just that she was informed.
-It does not say SDSO took this book in as evidence.

 

[justice be served]

Defendant is informed the SDSO noted the presence of a book on rope binding practices - just a reminder to myself. Found in a room RZ used as an office. Question to self - how was Nina informed?

Wow, well let's hope that San Diego Sheriff office is not suddenly at this late date bringing forth evidence that can help the defense. Oh wait a minute, that would shine well on the SDSO investigation now wouldn't it? And absolve SDSO's faulty and half-baked investigation that decided on suicide. Very interesting indeed.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

~snip~

At least now we know how Rebecca knew to tie those slip knots.

Who is this we you speak of?

 

[*Lash*]

Hi alwaysonmymind :wave:

I just wanted to say I love your signature line - Just striving to be average.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Hi alwaysonmymind :wave:

I just wanted to say I love your signature line - Just striving to be average.

Hi *Lash* !
The struggle is real ☺️

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Ok. Just to be clear. Nina Romano's answer leaves out a few things:

-It does not say who the book belonged to. Just that it was a book found in a room RZ used as an office.
-It does not say Nina read in RZ's investigative file that SDSO found a book on rope binding method. Just that she was informed.
-It does not say SDSO took this book in as evidence.

It may not say any of that, but it does say how Rebecca learned to tie those knots.

 

[Imp]

<snipped to address>

This leads me to ask the same question about Rebecca. From the many steps that were involved in her pre-death preparation, where did this idea and knowledge come from? The computer and phone records did not show that she had been looking for this information. Paint a message on the door, tie a rope to the bed frame, and each of the other steps that were taken to make an entity say her death looks like a suicide. All of these steps took knowledge of using these steps in another manner. Do you see what I am trying to say? Someone(s) was simulating everything, with the exception of the note, with a practice they were familiar with. Maybe being on a boat, wanting to throw an item overboard, and making sure it stayed down - like an anchor or a net?

Rebecca did not come up with this idea herself!

I agree. As I posted on one of these threads (can't remember which one!) yesterday, especially after watching just a minute of the video with Dina that *Lash* posted, I think every single step taken in the murder of Rebecca had meaning for someone involved - from her head injuries, to the message on the door, to the ropes she was bound with, to the manner in which she was thrown or dropped from the balcony.

I also don't think it's coincidence that we're suddenly hearing about "Shibari rope play" and rope tying books in RZ's "office" in the mansion.

 

[Imp]

Oh yeah- we learned about this book from one of the three defendants being accused of her murder. Well of course it must be true if they put it in their court filing. GMAB.

Here we go with anything mentioned in the defendants responses becoming 'facts' now. I don't think so.

BBM. Yep, just like the Ann Rule book. Nothing against Ann Rule (RIP), but she wrote books - she wasn't a law enforcement investigator. She didn't investigate RZ's death. Sadly, no one did.

 

[BBL]

It may not say any of that, but it does say how Rebecca learned to tie those knots.

BBM I respectfully disagree. Playing along, how do you know Rebecca even read the book? Put it to use? Was it a gift? Was it tested? Anyone else's fingerprints happen to be on that book? Heck, what is the title of the book? Until specifics are known, this is by no means the "boom" that you think it is. If anything, it just leads to more questions.

Still playing along... let's say a book of surveillance avoidance magically appeared in one of the defendants' surroundings....

 

[Imp]

Defendant is informed the SDSO noted the presence of a book on rope binding practices - just a reminder to myself. Found in a room RZ used as an office. Question to self - how was Nina informed?

Yes, that's an excellent question. Seems to me that book would be a good how-to manual for those who bound Rebecca with ropes. Could be why it was the room Rebecca was tied up in?

 

[BBL]

Yes, that's an excellent question. Seems to me that book would be a good how-to manual for those who bound Rebecca with ropes. Could be why it was the room Rebecca was tied up in?

Yes, excellant! Makes sense then that one of the defendants would know the book was there. They left it.

 

[Imp]

BBM I respectfully disagree. Playing along, how do you know Rebecca even read the book? Put it to use? Was it a gift? Was it tested? Anyone else's fingerprints happen to be on that book? Heck, what is the title of the book? Until specifics are known, this is by no means the "boom" that you think it is. If anything, it just leads to more questions.

Still playing along... let's say a book of surveillance avoidance magically appeared in one of the defendants' surroundings....

The (sudden) existence of a book on rope tying located in the middle of a crime scene (RZ's "office") does not equal "therefore, Rebecca knew how to tie knots."

That's one seriously irresponsible and absurd leap a jury will not make, especially since there was so little evidence collected/tested from the crime scene/office. There were a variety of intriguing things found in that room/crime scene that LE took little to no interest in, so we know little to nothing about them except that they existed. If the defense serves up that book as "proof" that RZ committed suicide, Greer will undoubtedly eat their lunch.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

BBM. Yep, just like the Ann Rule book. Nothing against Ann Rule (RIP), but she wrote books - she wasn't a law enforcement investigator. She didn't investigate RZ's death. Sadly, no one did.

Ann Rule did not just write books:

Ann Rule is regarded by many as the foremost true crime writer in America, and the author responsible for the genre as it exists today. She came to her career with a solid background in law enforcement and the criminal justice system. Both her grandfather and her uncle were Michigan sheriffs, her cousin was a Prosecuting Attorney and another uncle was the Medical Examiner. Raised in that environment, she grew up wanting to work in law enforcement herself. She is a former Seattle Policewoman, former caseworker for the Washington State Department of Public Assistance, former student intern at the Oregon State Training School for Girls Ann Rule was born in Lowell, Michigan on October 22.

Ann has attended every seminar that police organizations invite her to, including those on organized crime, arson, bomb search, DNA, etc. She has 30 hours credit at the University of Washington Medical School earned by attending the National Medical Examiners' Conference. She attended the King County Police Basic Homicide School for two weeks. Today, she herself teaches seminars to many law enforcement groups. She is a certified instructor in many states on subjects such as: Serial Murder, Sadistic Sociopaths, Women Who Kill, and High Profile Offenders. She was on the U.S. Justice Department Task Force that set up VI-CAP, the Violent Criminal Apprehension Program, now in place at FBI Headquarters in Quantico, a computer tracking system to help identify and trap serial killers. She has testified twice before Senate Judiciary Sub-committees on victims' rights and on the danger of serial killers.

http://www.authorannrule.com/Ann_Rule_Bio.html

Bourne certainly seems to trust that Rule knows what she is talking about:

I put credence on what Ann Rule writes because she was a detective and she's been very solid in the past about details such as times and alibis in other cases. I don't believe she would have written that Jonah had a solid alibi if she didn't investigate that time period fully. I also think that when Jonah was caught coming out of his room at RMH and leaving to visit Max at the hospital, he was seen within minutes entering the hospital. I don't see why Ann Rule would be so positive about Jonah's alibi if she didn't at least check out if there were big lapses in time (30 mins or more, I assume to get from RMH or hospital to Spreckels mansion) in which Jonah disappeared from either RMH or the hospital.

Post #525

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...eadly-Neighbors-Ann-Rule-s-Crime-Files/page35

Rule is also correct about Dina and her numerous witnesses.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

The (sudden) existence of a book on rope tying located in the middle of a crime scene (RZ's "office") does not equal "therefore, Rebecca knew how to tie knots."

That's one seriously irresponsible and absurd leap a jury will not make, especially since there was so little evidence collected/tested from the crime scene/office. There were a variety of intriguing things found in that room/crime scene that LE took little to no interest in, so we know little to nothing about them except that they existed. If the defense serves up that book as "proof" that RZ committed suicide, Greer will undoubtedly eat their lunch.

Oh, there isn't just the book.

There is:

1. The Rope Practice book
2. DNA on door
3. DNA on knife
4. DNA inside tied knots
5. Fingerprints on knife
6. Fingerprints on tube of paint
7. Bound footsteps on balcony
8. Hands and ankles not tightly bound
9. End of rope still in hand
10. No defensive wounds
11. Conscious when she went over balcony
12. Waist-sized area where she went over showing in the railing dust
13. R on door matches R on her drivers license
14. Testimony of those that were with her that last day
15. Movie, The Housemaid


I bet I'm missing a few as well.

 

[Waitaminute]

and no dna from adam on the knife he used to cut Rebecca down with

 

[Waitaminute]

and no full footprints from Rebecca on the balcony

 

[Waitaminute]

and marks of strangulation

 

[LuckyLucy2]

^. Her autopsy states "no sign of strangulation".

 

[LoveAlways7]

Totally my opinion after reading the back and forth about the "rope binding how-to book" and "Rebecca's office...."

1st... It is hard for me to believe that Rebecca had an "office." What was the office for? Most people lounge in a communal family room to leisurely surf the web.
I wonder who described it as "Rebecca's office?"

2nd... When did this book supposedly come to "light" I would wonder. It never seems to have been mentioned previously.
Would the Sheriff's office not have brought it up immediately to make themselves look like they actually did a good job?

Because if you have someone "characterizing" things in a certain kind of way then it almost seems like someone twisting a story (for example calling
a random guest room a murder victim's "office" would seem the person wanted you to believe only that person went in there instead of drawing their own
conclusion as to the room.

And if a book was later "discovered" then it occurs to me that its possible someone heard about the "nautical knots" (which they were) and needed a way
to explain why anyone would tie a rope in such a way (not the ordinary lay person way). Then they conveniently "find" this book.

When things like that start to pile up, it almost seems like behind the scenes someone is crafting a story because they want to evade authorities.

As Nina famously said in her interview (and I paraphrase)... if someone I knew had been hurt I would want to give all the help I could (and in my mind, making
up stories would not be a help).

Again... where do these strange informations come from? The book, the story of Max having cardiac arrest, the room becoming "Rebecca's office?"

 

[Imp]

@LoveAlways7: Much of the late-breaking "news" you describe and the "facts" that seem to crop up out of nowhere are, IMO, coming from people with a vested interest in keeping the suicide lie (IMO) alive. Possibly it's a defendant(s), possibly it's SDSO, possibly it's behind-the-scenes people with power and influence who've been trying to make the pesky bizarre death of Rebecca Zahau disappear for several years now.