Evidence

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When I lived in Philly, the parks, playgrounds, fields were completely lit at night for safety reasons. The lights would come on automatically at dusk, and turn off automatically at dawn. I think it's probably impossible to determine lights/no lights or the significance of such in this case. :banghead:

All good points . . . and you're all prolly right, I'm just chasing my tail on that one.

I had just suddenly remembered how cheap our municiple facilities are around here. Fields are provided and maintained by the city (and very well maintained at that), but the city won't pay for the lighting. Individual leagues must pay to utilize the fields, among other reasons, to pay for the lighting . . . and within 15 minutes of completion of the final game each night, the lights are shut off . . . sometimes while team members are still standing around talking or gathering their stuff to leave.

 

[Timex]

But if it was a pick-up game, would they be able to verify his presence there? If he was playing with a bunch of strangers, I don't think that those people would necessarily be able to be tracked down.

Even pickup games would have a players roster to keep up with substitutions etc I would think.

 

[Rooster]

Rooster, this is why I had my original question. I know our home has the house numbers painted on the curbs, as is fairly standard around here, yet if we have a function after dark, I almost always tie something to our mailbox because the house numbers are so hard to read at night. For what it's worth, our 911 system also recommends having someone waiting outside for their arrival if at all possible. Now, was this the case here? I have no idea.

I don't know if 911 told him to wait outside but that's what I did. So...

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Even pickup games would have a players roster to keep up with substitutions etc I would think.

Possibly but what if it was just a bunch of guys that meet at a certain field? Something all the players in the area know about but it isn't done through any organization or what-not. Just whomever that wants to get together - show up at such-and-such field at such-and-such time. Just good ol' soccer; no rosters, no schedules, no fees ...

 

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Even pickup games would have a players roster to keep up with substitutions etc I would think.

Maybe, maybe not . . . I've never been fond enough of soccer to play pick-up games . . . but I have played pick-up games of softball, and I can't ever recall even writing out a batting order. We just always agreed who would play what, and remember who you bat after . . . just from my experience, anyway.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Maybe, maybe not . . . I've never been fond enough of soccer to play pick-up games . . . but I have played pick-up games of softball, and I can't ever recall even writing out a batting order. We just always agreed who would play what, and remember who you bat after . . . just from my experience, anyway.

That's my experience with pick-up baseball and pick-up basketball as well.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

It sure is odd ... maybe the perp stole the car? Anyone know if there'd been a BOLO for a car matching the description of Janet's car during that time period?

But if they were impouding the cars, would they have listed them to be searched? I assumed that the Durango was searched on-site and thus listed the way it was. But if vehicles were actually being taken away, would they be listed under search or in the inventory?

I'm reminded of one thing that MIGHT lead us to believe they were down at least one vehicle of the four. A couple of week ago, or at some point, I posted the Durham County Property tax records.

There is one listing for Janet, and it seems to jive with being the Acura. The the taxes were paid in full on March 25, 2005.

There are TWO vehicles listed for Raven. One has a tax value of $2530 and the has a tax value of $8670. Both indicate that the taxes are still in arrears (taxes were due on March 1, 2005 and April 1, 2005, respectively).

As the site does NOT list what the vehicles actually are, it's kind of hard to know.... I would GUESS that the $8670 might be the VX, and the $2530 might be the Durango, as the Durango was older than the VX as I recall...but I'm not sure at all. That would indicate that they no longer had the motorcycle I suppose.

Interestingly enough, I also searched the property tax records for the year before when they were living in Orange County, and the ONLY listing is Janet's Acrua (on that site, it lists the type of car).

(This is not a direct link to the page, it won't allow that, but it's a link that you can follow to go in and do a search...)

http://www.co.durham.nc.us/departments/txad/TaxDB/

I suppose it's also possible that they had gotten rid of the Acura? I know that Raven talked about being behind on the VX payments...maybe they got rid of the Acura instead though????

 

[Timex]

That's my experience with pick-up baseball and pick-up basketball as well.

hmmm must be different than our pick-up games. Our serious players always make rosters, even if its just a group of guys that show up. But now Im talking SERIOUS SERIOUS players. Guys that live for the game.

 

[Rooster]

We know there was carpet in the office. I was questioning whether there was carpet covering the stairs at the time of the murder.

UNCONFIRMD Yes, I think there was.

 

[Timex]

I'm reminded of one thing that MIGHT lead us to believe they were down at least one vehicle of the four. A couple of week ago, or at some point, I posted the Durham County Property tax records.

There is one listing for Janet, and it seems to jive with being the Acura. The the taxes were paid in full on March 25, 2005.

There are TWO vehicles listed for Raven. One has a tax value of $2530 and the has a tax value of $8670. Both indicate that the taxes are still in arrears (taxes were due on March 1, 2005 and April 1, 2005, respectively).

As the site does NOT list what the vehicles actually are, it's kind of hard to know.... I would GUESS that the $8670 might be the VX, and the $2530 might be the Durango, as the Durango was older than the VX as I recall...but I'm not sure at all. That would indicate that they no longer had the motorcycle I suppose.

Interestingly enough, I also searched the property tax records for the year before when they were living in Orange County, and the ONLY listing is Janet's Acrua (on that site, it lists the type of car).

(This is not a direct link to the page, it won't allow that, but it's a link that you can follow to go in and do a search...)

http://www.co.durham.nc.us/departments/txad/TaxDB/

I suppose it's also possible that they had gotten rid of the Acura? I know that Raven talked about being behind on the VX payments...maybe they got rid of the Acura instead though????

Taxes on a vehicle? Do they have to pay taxes on them every year or what? And the amount of taxes blows my mind...I dont pay that much in property tax on my home each year.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

Rooster -

I have one other question for you, if you don't mind. You referred earlier today to the "clean up." I remember someone posting, Mr. A I think, that some folks from the church came over and cleaned up, and maybe even packed up, if I'm remembering correctly, once the house was released by LE as a crime scene.

Do you have any idea WHEN that might have been??

Thanks!

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

There is one listing for Janet, and it seems to jive with being the Acura. The the taxes were paid in full on March 25, 2005.

There are TWO vehicles listed for Raven. One has a tax value of $2530 and the has a tax value of $8670. Both indicate that the taxes are still in arrears (taxes were due on March 1, 2005 and April 1, 2005, respectively).

I wonder why Janet's would be paid, and Raven's would not? As a married couple, wouldn't you think that one of them at least would have made sure that the taxes were paid on these vehicles? I wonder if Janet paid her own but for some reason refused to pay for Raven's?

That would indicate that they no longer had the motorcycle I suppose.

Unless they just didn't claim/register it.

I suppose it's also possible that they had gotten rid of the Acura? I know that Raven talked about being behind on the VX payments...maybe they got rid of the Acura instead though????

But that still would have given them at least 2 vehicles to search unless one was stolen. But since the Durango is listed for search, and he drove the VX to the funeral, there were at least two cars there that night. Why was only the Durango listed as being in the driveway? If the VX was on a corner somewhere with a sale sign on it, did Raven leave Janet and Kaiden alone with no vehicle that night?

 

[Rooster]

The police took the Durango. (Don't know where it is now)
Raven drives the VX.
The Acura is with family members.
I don't know where the motorcycle is or was.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

Taxes on a vehicle? Do they have to pay taxes on them every year or what? And the amount of taxes blows my mind...I dont pay that much in property tax on my home each year.

Ohhhh YES.... In NC anyway, you list your vehicles and pay a yearly property tax, assessed by the county in which you live, based in the current "tax value" of your vehicles.... includes regular vehicles, as well as motorcycles, boats, etc.

 

[golfmom]

Taxes on a vehicle? Do they have to pay taxes on them every year or what? And the amount of taxes blows my mind...I dont pay that much in property tax on my home each year.

That is probably what the state has declared the value of those vehicles and then they base the tax on that value. Not that this the ACTUAL AMOUNT of taxes that need to be paid.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Taxes on a vehicle? Do they have to pay taxes on them every year or what? And the amount of taxes blows my mind...I dont pay that much in property tax on my home each year.

I think that's the taxable value - the amount on which they calculate the taxes.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

The police took the Durango. (Don't know where it is now)
Raven drives the VX.
The Acura is with family members.
I don't know where the motorcycle is or was.

Ah, ok, so that's much clearer to me. I assume they "took" the Durango when they came back with the second warrant?

Still curious to me where all these vehicles were on the night of the murder though.... Durango, driveway. VX, possibly on another street with for sale sign. Acura though? Motorcycle though?

But, that does clear up some question I had as to the final disposition of some of them though....

Thanks!

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

That is probably what the state has declared the value of those vehicles and then they base the tax on that value. Not that this the ACTUAL AMOUNT of taxes that need to be paid.

EXACTLY GM - if you look at the listing, it give the tax VALUE of the vehicle, then the amount of tax due. For example, I think Janet's car was valued, for tax purposes, around $15000 or so. Her TAX due/paid was $200ish dollars.

 

[Rooster]

Rooster -

I have one other question for you, if you don't mind. You referred earlier today to the "clean up." I remember someone posting, Mr. A I think, that some folks from the church came over and cleaned up, and maybe even packed up, if I'm remembering correctly, once the house was released by LE as a crime scene.

Do you have any idea WHEN that might have been??

Thanks!

The clean up was after the house was released. The pack up was after the funeral.... Date's? ...I don't remember. The news released something while they were doing the clean up. You could find the date, of the clean up, there.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

The police took the Durango. (Don't know where it is now)
Raven drives the VX.
The Acura is with family members.
I don't know where the motorcycle is or was.

Was the Acura with family members before that night? If not, do you know why it wasn't mentioned in the search warrant? And if he drives the VX, why wasn't that listed in the search warrant either?