Explain BDI to me

[UKGuy]

I've always raised a eyebrow at buying panties for a kid that isn't your own, but that could just be me. :floorlaugh:

Tawny,
ITA. I would never consider it. How can you reconcile another childs preference for color, style etc?

Some have suggested there was another reason for purchasing those size-12's, one the R's could never reveal?


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[Mysteeri]

Does someone know more about this "choking game" or it`s prevalence among schoolkids and has it been considered as a possible explanation for the ligature? If such a game was taking place between BR/JB then the neck ligature would not be staged but I guess the hand ligature and the tape on mouth would be to divert attention away from the strangulation and make it look like a kidnapping (poorly so).

Taken from:
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682481/Interpreting the Evidence

"Internet poster Tril http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=121841&postcount=34 has posted a November 1995 story about the "choking game" that apparently was familiar to Boulder area schoolchildren aged 10-16. Thus, even if the device was not used for a sexual purpose, its intention may well have been for choking, as opposed to staging."

From Tril`s post (ibm):

"The Choking Game - Serious, Dangerous, and most definitely, Not a Game Nov. 2005

An incident of "The Choking Game" occurred recently in the Ferndale Schools, and we want parents, teachers, and students to be aware this game exists, and, most importantly, to have the information they need to talk to children about the real dangers of this risky behavior. Fortunately, no one was injured in the Ferndale incident, but the potential for serious injury or death exists every time choking occurs.

The Choking Game" has been getting a lot of media attention lately, but it's been around for generations. Just last month, a teen in Boulder, Colorado died, and this week, the Boulder Valley, Colorado schools had an assembly to discuss the dangerous practice with students, and sent home a letter to parents.

Children who play this dangerous game are usually between ages 10 and 16. Hundreds have died or have been seriously injured from choking each other until someone passes out to get a rush.

Doctor answers Questions about Dangerous Game

Dr. Thomas Andrew, a pediatrician and New Hampshire's chief medical examiner, is an expert on the dangers of this high-risk game. He advises parents to talk with their kids about the dangers of "choking games" and says parents should be on the lookout for these warning signs.

§ Linear abrasions (scrapes) or bruises on the neck

§ Petechiae (tiny, pinpoint bleeding spots) of the skin of the face, especially the eyelids, or of the conjunctiva (the lining of the eyelids and eyes)

§ High-necked shirts, even in warm weather

§ Intermittent hoarseness without other explanation such as a cold or allergies

§ The unexplained presence of dog leashes, choke collars, bungee cords, etc

§ If the child uses a computer, check the history of sites visited periodically"

 

[Snowball58]

Some have suggested there was another reason for purchasing those size-12's, one the R's could never reveal?


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Can you elaborate? What reason for the size 12's?

 

[DeeDee249]

I cannot imagine what other reason there could be for buying the size 12s other than what we already know. They were bought by Patsy for her niece who was a few years older than JB. That is likely the truth. She may or may not have also bought a set for JB in her own size. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[DeeDee249]

I've always raised a eyebrow at buying panties for a kid that isn't your own, but that could just be me. :floorlaugh:

Not in a case like this, though. First, this was a relative- JB's cousin. Second, this was a cute "novelty" set-a Bloomingdale's Day Of The Week panty set. I can totally see Patsy buying this set for her niece with no nefarious or suspicious undertones.

 

[borndem]

Originally Posted by Tawny
I've always raised a eyebrow at buying panties for a kid that isn't your own, but that could just be me. :floorlaugh:

Tawny,
ITA. I would never consider it. How can you reconcile another childs preference for color, style etc?

Some have suggested there was another reason for purchasing those size-12's, one the R's could never reveal?


.

Arrrgggghhhh - Yet anudder dayam mystery - "another reason" - ay-yi-yi ! :banghead:

I was all ready to simply agree with you both, Tawny & UKGuy, about buying undies for another child (nyet, I wouldn't do it either, btw, unless, as in this case, it was for a relative whom I knew pretty well), but then I read the last sentence in your post, UK, and I wanted to scream (not at you, UKGUY, but at this whole dayam mess). I wanna know more. Grrrrr. <smh>

This crime is more perfect than even the R's could have hoped for.

ETA: DeeDee - Thanks for your posts about this -- this whole case is so "out there" I've gotten to where nothing surprises me, but your words have gotten me out of the tree I just ran up.... I'm pulling for the cigar in this one. Freud can't win 'em all, can he?

 

[Tawny]

I don't think it's nefarious that she bought them, it was just one of those things.

 

[MeanDonnaJean]

JonBenet did not like the basement. She never went down there alone. It was very dark down there Christmas night, even with a flashlight. Was pineapple that enticing? Was Burke's charm irresistible enough to lure JonBenet to that dark basement late at night while her parents slept three floors above? Or did he threaten her with his pocket knife the housekeeper thought she had stowed away upstairs?...

Perhaps it was the call/lure of those wrapped Christmas gifts in the basement. THAT would make a heck of a lotta sense especially when it involves two young kids.

 

[UKGuy]

Can you elaborate? What reason for the size 12's?

Snowball58,

For aficionados of the JonBenet case the size-12's are a point of departure, they tend to demarcate RDI from IDI in quite a distinct manner.

So their import extends beyond that of a Christmas gift. This latter idea promoted by PR but not supported by her actions, was further deflated when James Kolar stated in an interview that the partially opened Christmas gifts had been opened earlier on Christmas Day!


So why the legend, story told by Patsy? i.e. she purchased them for her niece yet never mailed them, instead gave them to JonBenet for her use, but Boulder Police Department investigators told her point blank no size-12's at all were found in JonBenet's underwear drawer!

So on both points, i.e. size-12's as gift, and as JonBenet's, PR's explanations fall down.

Considering alternative explanations: one might be they were purchased for another pageant girl, or some other girl, who allegedly, was being abused by JR?

PR may have intended to wear them for JR in some pre-nuptial role?

That they were a gift PR simply forgot to mail might seem credible, yet PR forgot lots of stuff, e.g. her own table ware in the breakfast bar, so there is more to the size-12's than most people think?


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[pageantmom]

Can a 9-10 year old lift, carry etc a 6 year old? I'm not sure, particularly when it involves "dead weight". I hate to use the term dead weight when she ultimately did die, but do you know what I mean, I have a daughter around JonBenet's age and I know she is wayyyy lighter feeling to pick up when she's up, if she's asleep then it's dead weight and she feels so much heavier. I'm wondering if a little boy could really do that. I guess it doesn't matter, though, because it doesn't have to be Burke who carried/dragged her to the basement, one of the adults could have done that part.

 

[borndem]

Hi, pageantmom! :seeya: (bbm) Re BR being able to carry JB down the stairs, etc.: I've wondered, if BR did accomplish it, if he used the string/rope (or whatever it should properly be called!) around her wrists & neck to drag her down the hall and stairs after he tired of carrying her or dragging her by her arms or legs... Don't know -- the ties around her wrists remain a mystery to me unless somebody tied her to something (horrible thought) using the cord around her wrists, perhaps to keep her from getting away...

If either scenario above occurred, how did one of the wrist cords get so loose?

Oh, there's so much we'll never know...

 

[Venom]

Does anyone know where the pack of size 12 panties went after whoever put them on JB? I assume they were in the house somewhere, but they weren't found in any of the searches? They just appeared a few years later in a box of the R's?

 

[DeeDee249]

Does anyone know where the pack of size 12 panties went after whoever put them on JB? I assume they were in the house somewhere, but they weren't found in any of the searches? They just appeared a few years later in a box of the R's?

Of course there is no way for anyone to know...obviously they weren't found when police searched the house. And they were sent by the Rs (via an attorney) to Boulder LE about 5 years later, with the claim that they were found in a moving box.
I think (and Kolar agrees) that there may have been items pertinent to the crime in the golf bag that JR was so adamant about retrieving from the house just days after JB's death. Or they may have been in one of the Rs coat pockets or the overnight bags they took with them to stay at their friends when they left that night. I am sure we all have our theories, but no one knows for sure except the Rs.

 

[borndem]

Original quote from DeeDee:

but no one knows for sure except the Rs

That sounds like a good title for a country song, DeeDee. Who's gonna write it? <smh>

I will say again, we'll never know. So many secrets go to graves...

 

[Tawny]

Of course there is no way for anyone to know...obviously they weren't found when police searched the house. And they were sent by the Rs (via an attorney) to Boulder LE about 5 years later, with the claim that they were found in a moving box.
I think (and Kolar agrees) that there may have been items pertinent to the crime in the golf bag that JR was so adamant about retrieving from the house just days after JB's death. Or they may have been in one of the Rs coat pockets or the overnight bags they took with them to stay at their friends when they left that night. I am sure we all have our theories, but no one knows for sure except the Rs.

That golf bag situation is super suspicious...

 

[Venom]

Of course there is no way for anyone to know...obviously they weren't found when police searched the house. And they were sent by the Rs (via an attorney) to Boulder LE about 5 years later, with the claim that they were found in a moving box.
I think (and Kolar agrees) that there may have been items pertinent to the crime in the golf bag that JR was so adamant about retrieving from the house just days after JB's death. Or they may have been in one of the Rs coat pockets or the overnight bags they took with them to stay at their friends when they left that night. I am sure we all have our theories, but no one knows for sure except the Rs.

I see them hiding them. Just why send them to the police years later? Why not make them forever disappear? :scared:

 

[UKGuy]

I see them hiding them. Just why send them to the police years later? Why not make them forever disappear? :scared:

Venom,
Because they are proof that Patsy's version of events is valid. Since BPD said no size-12's were to be found in the house?

Most RDI assume the size-12's were removed along with JonBenet's size-6 underwear.

At the time it probably seemed something of little importance, yet years later is called into question the Ramsey's version of events!


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[JC84]

BR's high school yearbook is online, I've never seen this before. And I've seen just about everything else.

https://archive.org/details/rayderyearbookch2005char

According to the index, he's mentioned on pages 74, 81 and 171. 171 is a very flashy full page congratulations ad from mom and dad...

 

[Chelly]

I have always thought the duct tape, cord, JBR's size 6's and the remaining size 12's were dumped into the trash cans in the alley between the houses.

I know JB asked PR's sister, Pam P, to remove the golf bag from the basement, but did she actually remove it that day she filled her car with evidence and the R's personal possessions? If she didn't remove the golf bag, BPD would have eventually searched it in situ.

 

[borndem]

BR's high school yearbook is online, I've never seen this before. And I've seen just about everything else.

https://archive.org/details/rayderyearbookch2005char

According to the index, he's mentioned on pages 74, 81 and 171. 171 is a very flashy full page congratulations ad from mom and dad...

A good find, JC! Thanks for sharing it.

Burke's senior picture shows him as handsome, IMO, with the same smile he had when he was a little boy. I looked at his picture and asked The Question. I'm a BDI/parents-staged, but we'll never really know.

If he did hurt her so horribly in the head, that has to be a heavy burden for him to carry around, and, AFAIK, only three people knew for sure -- and now it's only two -- Patsy lived long enuff to see him graduate and then some, and died June 24, 2006. If he didn't do it, he still has that black cloud over him since the whole truth is only known now by Burke and his dad. <smh>