Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas

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  • #641
"IMO it appears that BCH doctors and other staff have done nothing to allow Justina's education to continue"

please cite all the evidence you are aware of to prove this point.

this is a very often repeated accusation, and if true it certainly would be a big deal, so it would be nice to have all of the evidence there is to support it in one place.

all i am aware of is that the parents claim she has received no education while hospitalized. but there must be more than this to support it that i have missed.

Where is she getting this education? Neither Bader 5 nor Wayside appear to be set up for a long term care of a physically ill child with special needs. Or long term care, period.
While living at home, she was attending a private school for special needs children. What is she attending now? Neither Bader 5 nor Wayside are allowing her to leave the facility.
 
  • #642
  • #643
Where is she getting this education? Neither Bader 5 nor Wayside appear to be set up for a long term care of a physically ill child with special needs. Or long term care, period.
While living at home, she was attending a private school for special needs children. What is she attending now? Neither Bader 5 nor Wayside are allowing her to leave the facility.

i missed the part where you posted any evidence other than the parents claim... surely there must be some.
 
  • #644
Yes, DCF has such a good deal going. They can remove a child from parents and don't have any obligation to explain why.
Today it's Justina. Whose child is it going to be tomorrow?

they have no obligation to explain themselves to doctor phil, that is what was said. they have explained their actions many times to everyone that they are required to and their decisions have been upheld.

could BCH and DCF and the judge involved in the case all have it totally wrong? its possible. but i havent seen enough evidence to make that accusation.

but i have no problem with the fact that none of them are required to defend their decisions to doctor phil (media in general).
 
  • #645
i missed the part where you posted any evidence other than the parents claim... surely there must be some.

Well, if DCF was under obligation to explain to the public what it is they are doing, then maybe they could have explained what kind of education this poor child is getting while being locked up in a secure psychiatric ward or the facility that specializes in adolescents with substance abuse or psychiatric problems.
But you, yourself, claim that they aren't.
So where would you expect this evidence to come from if you don't accept what Justina's family has been saying?
 
  • #646
they have no obligation to explain themselves to doctor phil, that is what was said. they have explained their actions many times to everyone that they are required to and their decisions have been upheld.

could BCH and DCF and the judge involved in the case all have it totally wrong? its possible. but i havent seen enough evidence to make that accusation.

but i have no problem with the fact that none of them are required to defend their decisions to doctor phil (media in general).

I am very curious as to where you would expect this evidence to come from?
DCF isn't talking and aren't obligated to talk. Justina is not allowed to talk. You don't appear to believe anything that parents or sisters of Justina say. So basically DCF can remove a child from parents, don't have to explain why, and we are supposed to accept it and believe they actually have some reason to do what they are doing.
Judge gives DCF permanent custody and his explanation is that parents are rude to DCF after DCF took the child.
Not a word on what exactly the parents did prior to DCF removing the child.
 
  • #647
Well, if DCF was under obligation to explain to the public what it is they are doing, then maybe they could have explained what kind of education this poor child is getting while being locked up in a secure psychiatric ward or the facility that specializes in adolescents with substance abuse or psychiatric problems.
But you, yourself, claim that they aren't.
So where would you expect this evidence to come from if you don't accept what Justina's family has been saying?

again, i said they have no obligation to doctor phil or the media. you seem to be unfamiliar with the basic ways in which the system works, maybe some research would help.

where do i expect the evidence would come from? i can think of lots of places and forms it might come in... but that is really beside the point, all i asked for was anyone to post any evidence that they are aware of.

maybe if some was posted it might influence my opinion, my mind is not made up yet. all i know is that the parents have made a fairly vague claim that she has received no education the entire time she has been in children's.
 
  • #648
"Judge gives DCF permanent custody and his explanation is that parents are rude to DCF after DCF took the child."

surely even you dont believe what you wrote there... is that really what you think happened here?
 
  • #649
FWIW, this article was mentioned on the Dr. Phil show that focused on the Justina Pelletier case, IIRC, as a way to show the predisposition of I.S. Bujoreanu to make a decision of of psychological disorder rather than a physical condition.

http://journals.lww.com/co-pediatri...o_psychosomatic_illness_in_adolescents.6.aspx

If doctors write articles about physical illness, do we take it as evidence that they're predisposed to diagnose physical illness where there is none?

Up to 50% of patients in pediatric care will complain of medically unexplained symptoms

Whether or not someone has "medically unexplained symptoms", is, I presume, usually a decision made by doctors, not psychologists.
 
  • #650
I am very curious as to where you would expect this evidence to come from?

DCF isn't talking and aren't obligated to talk. Justina is not allowed to talk. You don't appear to believe anything that parents or sisters of Justina say. So basically DCF can remove a child from parents, don't have to explain why, and we are supposed to accept it and believe they actually have some reason to do what they are doing.

Judge gives DCF permanent custody and his explanation is that parents are rude to DCF after DCF took the child.

Not a word on what exactly the parents did prior to DCF removing the child.


Her parents know the exact reasons. As far as I know, the parents haven't given access to the paperwork to the media.
Where is the parenting plan and why haven't we seen it? Parents have a copy.


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  • #651
Her parents know the exact reasons. As far as I know, the parents haven't given access to the paperwork to the media.
Where is the parenting plan and why haven't we seen it? Parents have a copy.


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Parents told the media what these exact reasons were. They wanted to take the child out of BCH and back to Tuft's. They wouldn't agree to treatment plan proposed by BCH to treat her for somatoform instead of mitochondrial disease.
But you refuse to believe these reasons, yet where is evidence otherwise?
 
  • #652
If doctors write articles about physical illness, do we take it as evidence that they're predisposed to diagnose physical illness where there is none?



Whether or not someone has "medically unexplained symptoms", is, I presume, usually a decision made by doctors, not psychologists.

Then how do you explain a diagnosis of somatoform given to Justina within a several day timeline? When do you think those MDs at BCH had time to rule out physical symptoms of other disorders?
 
  • #653
"Judge gives DCF permanent custody and his explanation is that parents are rude to DCF after DCF took the child."

surely even you dont believe what you wrote there... is that really what you think happened here?

If I didn't believe it, why would I write it?
 
  • #654
Parents told the media what these exact reasons were. They wanted to take the child out of BCH and back to Tuft's.


The parents can claim anything they want.
Have they released the paperwork? Why not?
I want to see the parenting plan.


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  • #655
The parents can claim anything they want.
Have they released the paperwork? Why not?
I want to see the parenting plan.


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If by parenting plan you mean "treatment plan" parents refused to sign, yes, they released it.
 
  • #656
Then how do you explain a diagnosis of somatoform given to Justina within a several day timeline? When do you think those MDs at BCH had time to rule out physical symptoms of other disorders?


It doesn't necessarily have to take ages and tons of new tests and scans to rule out physical disorders if there are symptoms that don't fit what is known about human anatomy and physiology and the normal course of diseases. IIRC, one example was that Justina's symptoms got worse if her mother was in the room and that is not generally what is expected if you're sick because of mitochondria.
 
  • #657
I don't know all the facts of the case in explicit detail but I can see that Justina has deteriorated under the hospital's care. i can see that she has a loving family, sisters and friends that she loves and is being denied contact with them. I can see that a medical institution and staff have overstepped their boundaries by what they have done.

Justina is not a small child who is being physically or mentally abused. She is a young teen who should be old enough to express if she is being abused, old enough to know if she wants to refuse this hospital's care and go home be with her parents.

Can you imagine the torment she is going thru with all of this? How much mental damage is being done to this poor child by isolating her and ripping her out of her home and her life? You have NO idea how painful that can be for a teenager to be incarcerated and isolated when they have done NOTHING to deserve it. She is not guilty of anything, even if her parents were (and I do not believe they are) yet SHE is being punished and locked away, deprived of a normal life and normal teenage freedoms. She has no control over what happens to her at all.

In my case, the hospital knew I had great insurance and wanted the payout. I made a friend there who had insurance that covered 2 years of inpatient stay and she had to stay 24 months. basically, we all knew that you would be "cured" on the day your insurance ran out. What a freaking scam. i know Justina's case is not like that but i DO know that some hospital and doctors will do as they please and totally disregard what is right or what is best for the patient.

Actually, I do know some of what she is going thru. (Long story ahead)

Here is what I know about hospitals holding children hostage against their will when there is NO medical reason to do so. It happened to me when I was a teen. I was 17 years old, had graduated high-school a year before at age 16 and had a full-time job (and car) and was saving money to attend college. My mother did NOT want me to go to college (she wanted me to join the service). I refused. A week or two later she told me to pack a few clothes cuz we were going to visit my gram.

Instead we pulled up to a facility much like Justina is in. My mother apparently told them that I was doing drugs (I had never touched an illegal or recreational drug in my life), that i was partying all the time (nope, worked and came home, no friends, no boyfriends, NO social life at all (I was new in town and am a homebody anyway.) She told them I was suicidal and had threatened her. (Total BS. I was a bookworm who stayed to herself, in her room when not at work, I avoided her as much as possible).

Mom knew I was about to be 18 in a few months and that her rule over me was about to end. I had already looked into emancipation before but figured I would just wait out the year or so till I was 18. She figured if she could institutionalize me, have me declared mentally incompetent that she could retain control over me and get a SSI check too!

So there I was, a bright and motivated teen who had graduated from high school a year early by doing extra classes in summer and by correspondence, I had a fulltime job, had amazing SAT score, had never done drugs, gone out partying etc. But the hospital kept me for 72 hour "observation". I figured they would let me go after 72 hours since my bloodwork would not show any drugs and they could call my employer and/or school to see what kind of person i was.

Nope! Instead they investigated my insurance and found that it covered all expenses for 3 months of inpatient care. This was MY insurance from MY job, nothing from my mom at all. Sure all the drug test came back negative, they could find nothing wrong with me to diagnose me with but they kept me anyway. For three effing months!! I was declared miraculously cured the minute my insurance was up.

I spent 3 months on a unit with some very messed up kids who were nothing like me. Every aspect of my life was controlled, even when I could go to the bathroom because "rules were rules". I got to go outside maybe 3 times during that 3 months. They made me attend their joke of a high school even though I had graduated highschool the year before "cuz rules are rules, everyone must attend school". I had stuff stolen from me by staff.

Luckily i had a decent doctor. He told me that I could consult an attorney at any time to fight to get out but that my 3 months would be up before I would make any headway with a lawyer in the courts, in fact, fighting them might make it worse and cause other staff members to come down harder on me.

Justina does NOT belong in a place like this. She does NOT belong in an institution. It will damage her, probably for life. I bet she will develop a dislike or distrust of doctors and medical professionals. There in NO reason for her to be locked up this way and to be denied access to loved ones.

There are thousands of severely mentally ill children who need inpatient care and can't get it because the beds are full. We KNOW this is practically an epidemic. Parents of violent, mentrally ill kids can't get inpatient care and have to live in fear.

But yet, Justina, who is a threat to no one, is locked up like a criminal. I hope Justina sues the H*LL out of these people when she gets out.

This whole case infuriates me. WHY are they punishing this child this way. It is clearly obvious that she is getting WORSE in the hospital's care.

Oh, my. I'm so sorry for what you went through! I'm sure it was very difficult for you.
 
  • #658
It doesn't necessarily have to take ages and tons of new tests and scans to rule out physical disorders if there are symptoms that don't fit what is known about human anatomy and physiology and the normal course of diseases. IIRC, one example was that Justina's symptoms got worse if her mother was in the room and that is not generally what is expected if you're sick because of mitochondria.

BCH can claim all it wants that symptoms got worse when her mother was around. Justina has now been removed from her mother for over a year. For some reason, I don't see her running around symptom free.
 
  • #659
BCH can claim all it wants that symptoms got worse when her mother was around. Justina has now been removed from her mother for over a year. For some reason, I don't see her running around symptom free.

I don't think that's how somatoform disorder works.
 
  • #660
It doesn't necessarily have to take ages and tons of new tests and scans to rule out physical disorders if there are symptoms that don't fit what is known about human anatomy and physiology and the normal course of diseases. IIRC, one example was that Justina's symptoms got worse if her mother was in the room and that is not generally what is expected if you're sick because of mitochondria.


Didn't I read up thread her blood labs also fell within normal ranges? Something about the results weren't corroborating the dx of mito iirc


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