Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas

[Gardenlady]

What concerns me the most is having a child isolated on a psychiatric ward with limited contact with the family, friends, etc. given a lack of specific allegations of abuse by the parents. I come from a background of having a paranoid schizophrenic mother who was at times a danger to herself due to lack of self care and abuse of her meds and even so she was NEVER isolated like that after the first time she was hospitalized in the early 1960's (and given electric shock 'therapy,' insulin shock 'therapy,' cold bath shock 'therapy' and a host of other completely useless treatments. During later hospitalizations we were allowed to visit fairly freely (and unsupervised, and yes we were young children visiting with our father) and she had access to all kinds of rec opportunities, socialization with other patients, etc. Of course, once the appropriate treatments (anti-psychotic meds) became available she rarely needed hospitalization but you can't tell me that if Justina isn't actively trying to hurt herself or others she needs to be isolated like that with no home visits, limited parental visitation, etc. IMO, the treatment goals for patients with mental illnesses (assuming that is even the case here) should include integrating them with society to the greatest extent possible that accommodates their safety and the safety of others. I really haven't read anything that indicates that this child needs to be locked up for her safety or other's safety, so what gives?

And sure, her parents may be obnoxious and under the spell of right-wing factions, but so what? If they aren't harming their child or neglecting her to the point of harm (and I really haven't seen evidence that they have been) then how are they worse than all the parents who actively rape, beat, and neglect their children and are then reunited with them?

I don't get why THESE parents are considered to be doing such egregious harm (which is never quite specified) compared with others.

If the parents - either deliberately or unwittingly - are causing Justina harm via subjecting her to unnecessary medical treatments, say, or causing her psychological trauma in some way, then limiting the time spent with the parents, as well as requiring restrictions on what the parents talk to her about (ie - not discussing treatments with her) is the first and best things that can be done towards getting her well.

It isn't that she is a threat to others. Its that her family and the environment she was in could have been harming her.

Further, reading the literature and other writings regarding Bader 5 at BCH, the ward might be locked, but Justina is not in a locked room. There is common time, recreational opportunities, and educational opportunities. She is not kept in a padded cell. Same for the facility she is currently at.

 

[MyBelle]

Then why would CT have any worries? I don't follow your logic here.
Father doesn't have custody. Child would be transferred to CT from MA without father regaining custody.
So why do you blame the father for CT facility not taking her?

The father threatened a lawsuit because he thought he was getting custody of his daughter. The parents are totally to blame for losing custody. Totally.

 

[Minette]

So, I had one really well-regarded plastic surgeon who told me that the only way to remove a raised facial scar was to do a 4" excision of the scar and then deal with concealing a longer, flat scar. Well, maybe he was right, but OMG!!! So I didn't do that, and instead went with a dermatologist who is using injections to fill in the areas around the scar. It isn't perfect, but at least I don't have a Frankenstein scar in the middle of my face. I'm a doctor shopping criminal, lock me uuuup!!!

/joking, please don't throw tomatoes at me!

 

[jjenny]

If the parents - either deliberately or unwittingly - are causing Justina harm via subjecting her to unnecessary medical treatments, say, or causing her psychological trauma in some way, then limiting the time spent with the parents, as well as requiring restrictions on what the parents talk to her about (ie - not discussing treatments with her) is the first and best things that can be done towards getting her well.

It isn't that she is a threat to others. Its that her family and the environment she was in could have been harming her.

Further, reading the literature and other writings regarding Bader 5 at BCH, the ward might be locked, but Justina is not in a locked room. There is common time, recreational opportunities, and educational opportunities. She is not kept in a padded cell. Same for the facility she is currently at.

Just how well has she gotten during 14 months her family didn't have custody?

 

[Gardenlady]

Just how well has she gotten during 14 months her family didn't have custody?

Again, we don't know.

Further, you do realize that psychological conditions are often difficult to treat, and can often take years to get under control or management?

 

[Minette]

If the parents - either deliberately or unwittingly - are causing Justina harm via subjecting her to unnecessary medical treatments, say, or causing her psychological trauma in some way, then limiting the time spent with the parents, as well as requiring restrictions on what the parents talk to her about (ie - not discussing treatments with her) is the first and best things that can be done towards getting her well.

It isn't that she is a threat to others. Its that her family and the environment she was in could have been harming her.

Further, reading the literature and other writings regarding Bader 5 at BCH, the ward might be locked, but Justina is not in a locked room. There is common time, recreational opportunities, and educational opportunities. She is not kept in a padded cell. Same for the facility she is currently at.

Well, that's good to know, that she isn't in a locked room or a padded cell, because with today's treatment theories I would have thought that kind of confinement was reserved for the most dangerous (to themselves or others) patients, so good to know!

I don't know, though, I really don't get how just discussing a possible treatment with Justina could be so harmful that her parents need to be kept away from her entirely.

And let's be real: in a bit less than 2 years she will be 18 and not subject to these restrictions. And will she be better at that point?? Will she be healthier, happier? If so, more power to DCF. If not....and well, I don't see that she has made improvements under all these restrictions....she will be legally an adult and able to speak for herself. Now is as good time as any to say, you know, maybe we were wrong, maybe we need an unbiased third party (or hey, a couple of them) to come in and make a diagnosis, and that goes for both sides of the argument.

 

[liljim]

the father contacted the CT facility and threatened them with a lawsuit if they accepted his daughter, anyone claiming that it is not then the father's fault when the facility declines to accept the child must be delusional or so out of control and argumentative that they cant even acknowledge the simplest of facts that couldnt be any plainer to see.

arguing that if Justina wants to go hom then obviously they should let her?

arguing that if a person does not get better then the diagnosis must be wrong?

take a break and get control of yourself. its just ridiculous at this point, you dont put any critical thought into anythiong you just respond immediately refuting everything anyone says with the same tired hyperbole.

did you read the links i posted about wards of the state and research? do you see now how ridiculous your claims were? do you understand that the language you cited is actually there to PROTECT the patients and wards?

of course you dont.

everyone is wrong, you have all the facts. there is nothing you could possibly hear that would ever change your mind on any aspect of this situation. that is a dangerous attitude to have.

 

[MyBelle]

Again, we don't know.

Further, you do realize that psychological conditions are often difficult to treat, and can often take years to get under control or management?

Very true. Some think there is an "instant" cure for everything. I think this is the first case where people are actually complaining that CPS IS involved.

 

[jjenny]

Father doesn't have custody so he would have no ability to sue any CT facility.
So it's kind of absurd to blame him for facility not accepting the child, isn't it?
Any kind of lawyer would tell them that father would not be able to sue them since he doesn't have custody.

 

[jjenny]

Very true. Some think there is an "instant" cure for everything. I think this is the first case where posters are actually complaining the child IS receiving care but it isn't fast enough to suit them.

You are right. Her being in wheelchair, while a short time prior to being admitted to BCH she was ice skating isn't enough to suit me.

 

[Minette]

Again, we don't know.

Further, you do realize that psychological conditions are often difficult to treat, and can often take years to get under control or management?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying about my mom, and how once the archaic (and IMO barbarous) treatments she was subjected to were discredited and she was brought under a more holistic kind of treatment (psychiatrist for meds, psychologist for talk therapy/art therapy, etc.) with a focus on reintegrating her with her family and being a more self-sufficient person she went from being a near-vegetable to an 'not quite normal, but within shouting distance of it' individual.

What I am trying (not necessarily eloquently) to say is that I have LOTS of experience with severe psychiatric disorders and why isolation is not (or has not been, in my experience) a good treatment for them.

 

[liljim]

Just how well has she gotten during 14 months her family didn't have custody?

apparently she is paralyzed, dying from sepsis, has been beaten and kept from sleep. specifically and purposefully denied any education and religion. denied fresh air and sunlight. it is months now iirc that she has been inches from death and children's did nothing to help her, they actually denied her any medical treatment while she was hospitalized.

am i doing it right?

 

[Minette]

Gosh, this is a polarizing case, isn't it???

 

[Gardenlady]

Well, that's good to know, that she isn't in a locked room or a padded cell, because with today's treatment theories I would have thought that kind of confinement was reserved for the most dangerous (to themselves or others) patients, so good to know!

I don't know, though, I really don't get how just discussing a possible treatment with Justina could be so harmful that her parents need to be kept away from her entirely.

And let's be real: in a bit less than 2 years she will be 18 and not subject to these restrictions. And will she be better at that point?? Will she be healthier, happier? If so, more power to DCF. If not....and well, I don't see that she has made improvements under all these restrictions....she will be legally an adult and able to speak for herself. Now is as good time as any to say, you know, maybe we were wrong, maybe we need an unbiased third party (or hey, a couple of them) to come in and make a diagnosis, and that goes for both sides of the argument.

If she has somatoform disorder, for instance, her condition could be causing her extreme anxiety. Parents arguing with providers, discussing treatments, could all exacerbate that anxiety, leading to a worsening of her condition.

Further, the parents were not to be kept away from her entirely at first. The plan was to have the parents stop discussing the treatments with Justina, and stop discussing her care with providers in her presence. The family refused to follow these steps.

 

[jjenny]

apparently she is paralyzed, dying from sepsis, has been beaten and kept from sleep. specifically and purposefully denied any education and religion. denied fresh air and sunlight. it is months now iirc that she has been inches from death and children's did nothing to help her, they actually denied her any medical treatment while she was hospitalized.

am i doing it right?

No, you got it all wrong. DCF is very pleased with the amazing progress she made.
She can now unlock her wheelchair!
Wow!

"Justina, however, did not seem to be blossoming. Based on their regular visits, Justina’s parents and sisters report that she remains very weak and unable to walk, and she continues to require medical intervention for bowel movements. Although it’s been impossible to obtain an independent assessment of her current state, descriptions of her condition in state and hospital records — such as the former figure-skater’s ability to lock and unlock her wheelchair — attest to the modest nature of any improvement."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...l-uncertain/Y7qvYTGsq8QklkxUZvuUgP/story.html

 

[jjenny]

If she has somatoform disorder, for instance, her condition could be causing her extreme anxiety. Parents arguing with providers, discussing treatments, could all exacerbate that anxiety, leading to a worsening of her condition.

Further, the parents were not to be kept away from her entirely at first. The plan was to have the parents stop discussing the treatments with Justina, and stop discussing her care with providers in her presence. The family refused to follow these steps.

And of course DCF isolating her from family, friends, pets and school could not possibly cause her extreme anxiety? No, that couldn't be.

 

[Gardenlady]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying about my mom, and how once the archaic (and IMO barbarous) treatments she was subjected to were discredited and she was brought under a more holistic kind of treatment (psychiatrist for meds, psychologist for talk therapy/art therapy, etc.) with a focus on reintegrating her with her family and being a more self-sufficient person she went from being a near-vegetable to an 'not quite normal, but within shouting distance of it' individual.

What I am trying (not necessarily eloquently) to say is that I have LOTS of experience with severe psychiatric disorders and why isolation is not (or has not been, in my experience) a good treatment for them.

If the parents are causing or exacerbating a psychological condition, though, then something needed to be done to minimize that harm. Initially, the plan was to restrict them from discussing treatments with her, or with providers in front of her. They would not go along with this.

The plan further included goals of getting her mobile again so that she could safely and independently ambulated, as well as other occupational type goals. None of the plan was designed to isolate her, at all. She still is not isolated from the world. She might be isolated from her family, but we need to ask, what is the alternative if they are the very ones exacerbating her condition?

 

[liljim]

If she has somatoform disorder, for instance, her condition could be causing her extreme anxiety. Parents arguing with providers, discussing treatments, could all exacerbate that anxiety, leading to a worsening of her condition.

Further, the parents were not to be kept away from her entirely at first. The plan was to have the parents stop discussing the treatments with Justina, and stop discussing her care with providers in her presence. The family refused to follow these steps.

it is not uncommon to have a patient finally get correctly diagnosed and they then reject that diagnosis and get markedly worse.

an eating disorder situation would be a very typical example of this.

BCH still could be wrong about this case, i dont know. but anyone convinced that there is no possible scenario where BCH may be right is imo misinformed. grossly.

 

[Minette]

Dear Gardenlady, you and I have been on the same 'side' of some many cases here on WS I almost hesitate to disagree with you out of such liking on my part.

Nevertheless! I really, truly, do not see why even in a case of somatoform disorder she would need to be so strictly partitioned from her parents in the absence of active harmful behavior on their part. When she was at the depth of her illness, my mom was CONVINCED that her family was the Devil at the root of all her problems but when she got better treatment she actively wanted their company. And it's worth noting that her doctors (plural, because you'd better believe my dad went 'doctor shopping' after her admitting psychiatrists told him she would never get better and would never be able to function at all) never said her family the problem.

 

[jjenny]

If the parents are causing or exacerbating a psychological condition, though, then something needed to be done to minimize that harm. Initially, the plan was to restrict them from discussing treatments with her, or with providers in front of her. They would not go along with this.

The plan further included goals of getting her mobile again so that she could safely and independently ambulated, as well as other occupational type goals. None of the plan was designed to isolate her, at all. She still is not isolated from the world. She might be isolated from her family, but we need to ask, what is the alternative if they are the very ones exacerbating her condition?

She was in a secure psychiatric ward for months.
She is allowed one hour per week of contact with her family under heavy supervision.
I don't think she has actually seen any of her friends from school after DCF removed her.
She isn't allowed to go to school she went to and loved.
So, if that is not isolation, I don't know what is.