Family Stranded at Airport After Being Kicked Off Plane

[Jeana (DP)]

It's always nice when adults can handle stressful and unpleasant situations with grace and maturity.

Let's just hope the dude never has any kids of his own!! We've read what can happen when people who shouldn't have kids do.

 

[FlowerChild]

I think we in the US now have a society where parents feel it is up the "the world" to put up with their children, no matter what the children do. Since when is parenthood a "pass" on everything?? It's as if these people don't want to change THEIR lifestyle to accommodate their own children, so the rest of us must ???

I am tired of having to put up with other people's misbehaving, loud, disruptive, annoying, undisciplined children EVERYWHERE. These aren't autistic children - these are wild, out-of-control children. There seems to be no place left except "Gentlemen's Clubs" and X-Rated Movies where adults can go and expect that there won't be children running, screaming and annoying other patrons without a word or a glance from Mom and/or Dad. It doesn't seem to matter what the hour or what the location, there are children there. Even WORK has become a place where ill-behaved children must be tolerated. I go to the salon to have my hair done and despite the signs about unsupervised kids, there they are - while Mom chats with her stylist as if her children with plastic hair-dye bowls on their heads playing "Army" don't exist.

If I hear one more mother say "Mary, do you want a time out?" as she kneels like a begging supplicant in front of her unfocused, hyped up child with a trail of knocked down stuff in the already narrow aisles of the grocery store behind her I may have a meltdown myself. Whatever happened to the word "NO" and children suffering real consequences for behavior they are capable of controlling. I haven't seen a parent REMOVE a child from a situation in years - probably because the parents are unwilling to sacrifice THEIR activity to discipline their child.

We travel a LOT for both business and pleasure. We carry ipods, headphones, earplugs, sleep masks, computers (with DVD capabilities) and a change of clothing onto every flight. Why? Kids and drunks. We have been subjected to too many undisciplined, out-of-control kids and ADULTS on flights. We do OUR part to screen out drunks, annoyances and noise, but we cannot bring on anything to stop kicking, running, seat climbing shrieking (in our ear) grabbing, hair-pulling, kids - covered in cookie, chocolate, and unidentifiable sticky gooey debris. Some of the parents are oblivious and some are "talking" to the kids, but nothing is happening - the behavior continues. I have been on flights where every passenger going to the bathroom returned with chocolate on their clothing about 30" from the floor. It was like running a kiddie gauntlet - and believe me, being in 1st Class doesn't help - the "new rules" of an open aisle mean the kids run from the cockpit door to the rear galley unimpeded. I think the "locked and reinforced" doors on the flight deck were partly to stop children from playing hide-n-seek in the cockpit. I have seen kids climb over/under unknown passengers to get around a beverage cart in the aisle. All these parents are so concerned abot child molesters at home and yet they allow their child to risk being groped by a pervert on an airplane without ever looking up from their "Parenting" Magazine. I guess they think the Flight Attendants (bless them) are their personal babysitters and will look after their kids till they land (so they can just check-out from parenting) or that "Chester Molester" can't afford to fly - or will have a big red "RSO" on his forehead.

Stepping off my soapbox - but take it from a frequent flyer, I would pay EXTRA to fly on a plane WITHOUT KIDS - especially on flights of 2+ hours and I would dearly LOVE (and pay a premium) to go out for a nice (expensive) dinner with ADULTS without children in the restaurant. I love children, but there should be "Adult Rights" too. Whatever happened to the "Adult Time" and hiring a babysitter for an evening out without the kids? I GET that you love your children but why am I being FORCED to accomodate you (and your kids) universally - where is MY RIGHT to NOT be forced to deal with your children - who I cannot control (and shouldn't have to).

My Opinion

 

[Details]

This all depends on what a "flight from Hell" is. I think some are reading that, thinking of some snooty overprivileged lady unhappy that her reading was interrupted by a few cries from a stressed child. And others are reading that, thinking of a screaming child running and throwing tantrums in the middle of the aisle, making it impossible for people to move around, grabbing things from strangers, trying to get into crew areas.

I suspect the latter. Screaming children are the norm on a flight - their ears hurt, it's a small space. That's sure as heck not going to get SW, normally a very tolerant airline, to not only kick you off, but also to ban you (they do ban drunks too, when they are bad enough). From the news reports and such, it sounds like this was not simply crying kids, it was out of control, as the mother said - as in running around in the airplane. Crying, screaming - that's not a safety issue, and not something a parent can always stop. But letting them run around, which I think was the problem - that is.

I do think it is a safety issue if people can't walk up and down that aisle. It's a small enough space as it is, without removing the only walkway - people can't get to the bathrooms, the stewardess can't get to a passenger - nor to their seat quickly if turbulence starts. And, of course, in case of turbulence, the child is not restrained, in the walkway. They can be quite seriously hurt.

 

[Spazkat9696]

Are you working at an autism-specialized private school?

The PLEA school my son was at took a lot of field trips like that. However the public school he is at now only does 1 trip a year.

I work for a program that operates classrooms with in the public school building. The students tuition is paid by the public school system that they are assigned to but their education is provided by us. I really love it because we all specialize in what we do. I have 4 students and 3 assistants. I always go out of my way to help all of my parents in any way I can. I even gave them all my cell phone number just in case they need me for something. I feel that open lines of communication are an important part of any education.

For the most part I agree with what you are saying. From what I've seen in the interviews, the two adults are idiots and allowed their children to run amok. The only part of your comments I disagree with are regarding the parents predicting their childs behavior. To a great extent, in most situations, I agree that you can do this. But sometimes you can't.

I agree sometimes you can't predict these things are going to happen, but I wish they would have been more attentive and taken the necessary steps when they saw their child becoming upset.
Even if it wasn't the child with autism they should have been proactive at the first sign of a meltdown. I find meltdowns can be contagious, so with four kids I would have been especially careful.

I appreciate what you do as a teacher. Dealing with a roomful of autistic kids is not something too many people can do. But teachers like you give kids with autism a better chance at coming out of their shells and experiencing the world. Thank you.

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Here is a link to the ACP program where I work.
http://www.secep.net/programs/acp/index.htm

 

[Spazkat9696]

I think we in the US now have a society where parents feel it is up the "the world" to put up with their children, no matter what the children do. Since when is parenthood a "pass" on everything?? It's as if these people don't want to change THEIR lifestyle to accommodate their own children, so the rest of us must ???

I am tired of having to put up with other people's misbehaving, loud, disruptive, annoying, undisciplined children EVERYWHERE. These aren't autistic children - these are wild, out-of-control children. There seems to be no place left except "Gentlemen's Clubs" and X-Rated Movies where adults can go and expect that there won't be children running, screaming and annoying other patrons without a word or a glance from Mom and/or Dad. It doesn't seem to matter what the hour or what the location, there are children there. Even WORK has become a place where ill-behaved children must be tolerated. I go to the salon to have my hair done and despite the signs about unsupervised kids, there they are - while Mom chats with her stylist as if her children with plastic hair-dye bowls on their heads playing "Army" don't exist.

If I hear one more mother say "Mary, do you want a time out?" as she kneels like a begging supplicant in front of her unfocused, hyped up child with a trail of knocked down stuff in the already narrow aisles of the grocery store behind her I may have a meltdown myself. Whatever happened to the word "NO" and children suffering real consequences for behavior they are capable of controlling. I haven't seen a parent REMOVE a child from a situation in years - probably because the parents are unwilling to sacrifice THEIR activity to discipline their child.

We travel a LOT for both business and pleasure. We carry ipods, headphones, earplugs, sleep masks, computers (with DVD capabilities) and a change of clothing onto every flight. Why? Kids and drunks. We have been subjected to too many undisciplined, out-of-control kids and ADULTS on flights. We do OUR part to screen out drunks, annoyances and noise, but we cannot bring on anything to stop kicking, running, seat climbing shrieking (in our ear) grabbing, hair-pulling, kids - covered in cookie, chocolate, and unidentifiable sticky gooey debris. Some of the parents are oblivious and some are "talking" to the kids, but nothing is happening - the behavior continues. I have been on flights where every passenger going to the bathroom returned with chocolate on their clothing about 30" from the floor. It was like running a kiddie gauntlet - and believe me, being in 1st Class doesn't help - the "new rules" of an open aisle mean the kids run from the cockpit door to the rear galley unimpeded. I think the "locked and reinforced" doors on the flight deck were partly to stop children from playing hide-n-seek in the cockpit. I have seen kids climb over/under unknown passengers to get around a beverage cart in the aisle. All these parents are so concerned abot child molesters at home and yet they allow their child to risk being groped by a pervert on an airplane without ever looking up from their "Parenting" Magazine. I guess they think the Flight Attendants (bless them) are their personal babysitters and will look after their kids till they land (so they can just check-out from parenting) or that "Chester Molester" can't afford to fly - or will have a big red "RSO" on his forehead.

Stepping off my soapbox - but take it from a frequent flyer, I would pay EXTRA to fly on a plane WITHOUT KIDS - especially on flights of 2+ hours and I would dearly LOVE (and pay a premium) to go out for a nice (expensive) dinner with ADULTS without children in the restaurant. I love children, but there should be "Adult Rights" too. Whatever happened to the "Adult Time" and hiring a babysitter for an evening out without the kids? I GET that you love your children but why am I being FORCED to accomodate you (and your kids) universally - where is MY RIGHT to NOT be forced to deal with your children - who I cannot control (and shouldn't have to).

My Opinion

We have friends who we used to go out to dinner with. We had to stop because they let their kids run around bothering other people at the restaurant. Not only was I embarrassed because I didn't want people to think that they were my kids, but my DS wanted to know why he couldn't run around too. It was like they had no clue, and when we asked them about it they said the other people liked it and thought their kids were cute. NO THEY DON'T. They just forgot that if that had happened to them before they had kids they would have been pi$$ed off. I still makes me made and I have a child. I'm not out spending my hard earned money to have someone else's kids sticking their grimy little hands on my plate.

 

[Paladin]

Screaming children are the norm on a flight - their ears hurt, it's a small space.

If their ears hurt then you as a parent need to take a car or a van or wait until the child is old enough so their ears don't hurt. It's YOUR child...not anyone else's on the plane. They don't have to put up with that crap. Keep the inconvenience to yourself and don't pass it along to others.

p.s. Not talking about YOU in particular...I mean YOU in general.

 

[bakerprune64]

I think we in the US now have a society where parents feel it is up the "the world" to put up with their children, no matter what the children do. Since when is parenthood a "pass" on everything?? It's as if these people don't want to change THEIR lifestyle to accommodate their own children, so the rest of us must ???

I am tired of having to put up with other people's misbehaving, loud, disruptive, annoying, undisciplined children EVERYWHERE. These aren't autistic children - these are wild, out-of-control children. There seems to be no place left except "Gentlemen's Clubs" and X-Rated Movies where adults can go and expect that there won't be children running, screaming and annoying other patrons without a word or a glance from Mom and/or Dad. It doesn't seem to matter what the hour or what the location, there are children there. Even WORK has become a place where ill-behaved children must be tolerated. I go to the salon to have my hair done and despite the signs about unsupervised kids, there they are - while Mom chats with her stylist as if her children with plastic hair-dye bowls on their heads playing "Army" don't exist.

If I hear one more mother say "Mary, do you want a time out?" as she kneels like a begging supplicant in front of her unfocused, hyped up child with a trail of knocked down stuff in the already narrow aisles of the grocery store behind her I may have a meltdown myself. Whatever happened to the word "NO" and children suffering real consequences for behavior they are capable of controlling. I haven't seen a parent REMOVE a child from a situation in years - probably because the parents are unwilling to sacrifice THEIR activity to discipline their child.

We travel a LOT for both business and pleasure. We carry ipods, headphones, earplugs, sleep masks, computers (with DVD capabilities) and a change of clothing onto every flight. Why? Kids and drunks. We have been subjected to too many undisciplined, out-of-control kids and ADULTS on flights. We do OUR part to screen out drunks, annoyances and noise, but we cannot bring on anything to stop kicking, running, seat climbing shrieking (in our ear) grabbing, hair-pulling, kids - covered in cookie, chocolate, and unidentifiable sticky gooey debris. Some of the parents are oblivious and some are "talking" to the kids, but nothing is happening - the behavior continues. I have been on flights where every passenger going to the bathroom returned with chocolate on their clothing about 30" from the floor. It was like running a kiddie gauntlet - and believe me, being in 1st Class doesn't help - the "new rules" of an open aisle mean the kids run from the cockpit door to the rear galley unimpeded. I think the "locked and reinforced" doors on the flight deck were partly to stop children from playing hide-n-seek in the cockpit. I have seen kids climb over/under unknown passengers to get around a beverage cart in the aisle. All these parents are so concerned abot child molesters at home and yet they allow their child to risk being groped by a pervert on an airplane without ever looking up from their "Parenting" Magazine. I guess they think the Flight Attendants (bless them) are their personal babysitters and will look after their kids till they land (so they can just check-out from parenting) or that "Chester Molester" can't afford to fly - or will have a big red "RSO" on his forehead.

Stepping off my soapbox - but take it from a frequent flyer, I would pay EXTRA to fly on a plane WITHOUT KIDS - especially on flights of 2+ hours and I would dearly LOVE (and pay a premium) to go out for a nice (expensive) dinner with ADULTS without children in the restaurant. I love children, but there should be "Adult Rights" too. Whatever happened to the "Adult Time" and hiring a babysitter for an evening out without the kids? I GET that you love your children but why am I being FORCED to accomodate you (and your kids) universally - where is MY RIGHT to NOT be forced to deal with your children - who I cannot control (and shouldn't have to).

My Opinion

I couldn't agree more on the three bolded areas. However, I do take my children out to dinner with us often, and they have NEVER, EVER dared to misbehave or even raise a voice. Why????...Beacuse they know there are swift consequences for bad behavior. I've had people stop by our table on their way out and compliment them on the good behavior.

 

[Paladin]

I couldn't agree more on the three bolded areas. However, I do take my children out to dinner with us often, and they have NEVER, EVER dared to misbehave or even raise a voice. Why????...Beacuse they know there are swift consequences for bad behavior. I've had people stop by our table on their way out and compliment them on the good behavior.

Ooohh...please share the swift cosequences. I'm taking notes.

 

[Spazkat9696]

I couldn't agree more on the three bolded areas. However, I do take my children out to dinner with us often, and they have NEVER, EVER dared to misbehave or even raise a voice. Why????...Beacuse they know there are swift consequences for bad behavior. I've had people stop by our table on their way out and compliment them on the good behavior.

I'm with you. All I have to do is shoot my DS "The Look".

 

[bakerprune64]

Ooohh...please share the swift cosequences. I'm taking notes.

A trip to the bathroom for a swat, grounded from anything and everything fun...added chores...the list goes on. Suffice it to say that it only took once and they got my message loud and clear. But even as youngsters ages 4 & younger, they never misbehaved in public. My ill-behaved nehew and his mom went out to dinner wiht me once...I stress ONCE! His mom got up to go to the bathroom and he started having a hissy fit, so I quietly told him "do you want me to turn you over my knee and swat your butt in front of everybody?" To which he replied no and straightened up real quick. when his mommy dearest got back to the table he said, "momma, auntie want's to swat my butt" She dared not to say a word about it!

 

[Lyn1001]

My DD is two. At about 18 mo, we went to a resturant. She is normally very well behaved. Well, for whatever reason, she decided it was meltdown time. Not wanting to disturb the other patrons, and not wanting her to think that was acceptable behavior, we went outside and sat on a bench while my mom finished eating. After DD settled down, I took her back in so she and I could eat. She started getting fussy again. My mom took her outside while I finished, got her food packed up, and paid. DD wasn't a big fan of having to sit outside and do nothing at all. She has not acted up in public since then. However, if she did, we would leave. That simple.

 

[BarnGoddess]

You know a little paddling on the rear is totally forbidden these days. Do it and if you're seen, you may just land yourself in jail. I paddled, not beat, my sons when the occasion called for it. Just a slap on the butt to basically get their attention so I could correct the behavior. I remember once my oldest, just starting to pull himself up and hold on to furniture and walk around, grabbed a handful of cigarette butts out of an ashtray at my MIL's. My first reaction was to grab his hand, give it a smack, and yell, NO!!!. As he was under a year old, my talking to him about nasty, nasty, don't do that would have been a total waste. The shock of the mild slap and sharp words from me, got his attention. The reaction was enough for him to understand he could not do that. Never attempted it again.

What I'm saying I guess, is that we have gone so far to the extreme that the only punishment allowed is to threaten a time out. Now just where the devil is a child going to serve a time out on a crowded plane? Or, for that matter, in a store or resturant? I haven't been confronted with bad behavior in stores or resturants in our small towns here. Most kids are pretty well behaved in public. Must be the rural lifestyle.

I used to have no qualms taking my boys to a nice resturant or anywhere. It was their upbringing. It was a thrill and privilege to go out to eat with the adults. They were generally smart and could enjoy a bit of conversation by asking questions during the conversations and participated a bit.

As for travelling with them, I made sure they had books, small toys, coloring books, etc. to keep them occupied. If on a long car ride, we played license plate games or alphabet games with signs. They also had these small toys along with books on plane trips also. They really were fascinated by looking out the window at the landscapes below. I just don't think that some people care enough about their own children to take the time to educate them with proper behavior. They aren't even self-disciplined themselves. Maybe they have no clue as they are aren't smart enough themselves, or just plain selfish themselves. We as a nation need to re-think how our young people are raised or we're going to be in big trouble one day down the road.

 

[BarnGoddess]

I couldn't agree more on the three bolded areas. However, I do take my children out to dinner with us often, and they have NEVER, EVER dared to misbehave or even raise a voice. Why????...Beacuse they know there are swift consequences for bad behavior. I've had people stop by our table on their way out and compliment them on the good behavior.

Well darlin', you have not just passed Parenting 101, but earned your doctorate degree:clap::clap::clap:. I too used to get those comments. They were always dressed in their best and behaved like little gentlemen. They were rowdy little boys when they could be, but they adapted to the situation when necessary.

 

[Details]

If their ears hurt then you as a parent need to take a car or a van or wait until the child is old enough so their ears don't hurt. It's YOUR child...not anyone else's on the plane. They don't have to put up with that crap. Keep the inconvenience to yourself and don't pass it along to others.

p.s. Not talking about YOU in particular...I mean YOU in general.

You don't know until they're on the plane and in the air, and by then it's too late to turn back. I do what I can, and normally it works. Just saying, screaming - that's not abnormal. I tend to give her a little tylenol before for pain, have her favorite games, try to get her to be sucking on something during takeoff and landing - but I know that's not a guarentee. So far, she's flown quite a bit, and no nightmare flights, sometimes a bit of screaming. I think that's a reasonable thing to expect - you aren't in a restaurant, you aren't in a private vehicle, it's a public transportation. Some noise is normal. Screaming all throughout is not - but it's also not something the parent can reasonably know will happen, until it does happen, at which point it's too late. Kids are unpredictable. So are adults - and we still let them fly.

Running wild through aisles, throwing stuff at other passengers - that's where I see the line.

 

[bakerprune64]

You know a little paddling on the rear is totally forbidden these days. Do it and if you're seen, you may just land yourself in jail. I paddled, not beat, my sons when the occasion called for it. Just a slap on the butt to basically get their attention so I could correct the behavior. I remember once my oldest, just starting to pull himself up and hold on to furniture and walk around, grabbed a handful of cigarette butts out of an ashtray at my MIL's. My first reaction was to grab his hand, give it a smack, and yell, NO!!!. As he was under a year old, my talking to him about nasty, nasty, don't do that would have been a total waste. The shock of the mild slap and sharp words from me, got his attention. The reaction was enough for him to understand he could not do that. Never attempted it again.

What I'm saying I guess, is that we have gone so far to the extreme that the only punishment allowed is to threaten a time out. Now just where the devil is a child going to serve a time out on a crowded plane? Or, for that matter, in a store or resturant? I haven't been confronted with bad behavior in stores or resturants in our small towns here. Most kids are pretty well behaved in public. Must be the rural lifestyle.

I used to have no qualms taking my boys to a nice resturant or anywhere. It was their upbringing. It was a thrill and privilege to go out to eat with the adults. They were generally smart and could enjoy a bit of conversation by asking questions during the conversations and participated a bit.

As for travelling with them, I made sure they had books, small toys, coloring books, etc. to keep them occupied. If on a long car ride, we played license plate games or alphabet games with signs. They also had these small toys along with books on plane trips also. They really were fascinated by looking out the window at the landscapes below. I just don't think that some people care enough about their own children to take the time to educate them with proper behavior. They aren't even self-disciplined themselves. Maybe they have no clue as they are aren't smart enough themselves, or just plain selfish themselves. We as a nation need to re-think how our young people are raised or we're going to be in big trouble one day down the road.

That is not necessarily true BG. A swat on the clothed buttocks with an opened hand not leaving a mark for longer than 15 minutes will not land you in jail here. Now if I were to crack them with a wooden spoon or a hairbrush, etc., I could get into big trouble. Man my mom would have been in jail many times

 

[Details]

Paddling on the rear is not forbidden these days. Abuse is.

Parents do it in public all the time. Granted, a rare person might be upset, an even rarer person might call the police, and an incredibly rare police officer might decide they think it's abuse (although most of those times, it is a really abusive parent using the fears of normal parents who spank to get public sympathy - they'll claim it was just a spanking, when it was an abusive beating) - but it's not illegal. A rare police officer might do all kinds of stupid things - we don't let that stop us in any other area. A swat on the rear - I've got no fear of doing that in public. It's not forbidden.

 

[BarnGoddess]

That is not necessarily true BG. A swat on the clothed buttocks with an opened hand not leaving a mark for longer than 15 minutes will not land you in jail here. Now if I were to crack them with a wooden spoon or a hairbrush, etc., I could get into big trouble. Man my mom would have been in jail many times

Some areas of the country are so strict, I just wasn't sure. I don't think anyone around here would bat an eye at a smack on the butt either. Don't remind me about the hairbrush !!!! My mother used the metal one with the holes. I even remember the boys dean (now called vice principals) in high school would take a big paddle and issue a swat out in the hall way back then.

 

[anthrobones]

I was on a flight once where a toddler who was making a lot of noise, and not sitting still. The flight was later at night, so while I myself was not asleep, I think a lot of the other passengers wanted to sleep. There was also a young baby with the parents, probably no more than a few weeks old, which never cried. Some of the people sitting near them were getting irritated, and the flight attendent told the parents they needed to get the kid under some control, and that he needed to wear his belt. After the flight ended, the people that were annoyed were arguing with the parents in front of the baggage claim!!

 

[LinasK]

Taximom, you are correct that it doesn't say which child/children were disruptive. Flying is hard on so many people, especially children. I couldn't imagine taking 4 kids (2 with disabilities) on a flight myself, or even with a pregnant relative as my only help. That just sounds stressful, and expensive.

Yup! That was my first thought. Who does that??? And without a backup plan and money?????

 

[bakerprune64]

I was on a flight once where a toddler who was making a lot of noise, and not sitting still. The flight was later at night, so while I myself was not asleep, I think a lot of the other passengers wanted to sleep. There was also a young baby with the parents, probably no more than a few weeks old, which never cried. Some of the people sitting near them were getting irritated, and the flight attendent told the parents they needed to get the kid under some control, and that he needed to wear his belt. After the flight ended, the people that were annoyed were arguing with the parents in front of the baggage claim!!

When my girls were very little and we traveled back east to see my parents...I always kept them up the whole day and flew the red eye so they slept the whole time. never a peep