Family, under pressure, removes its hanged dummy

[southcitymom]

If you are Jewish or black let me know, if not, you could have no idea what it is like to be killed based on color or religion.

Well, I'm a female and thousands of my kind are killed because of that in China (and other countries - I just picked China because I know more about female infanticide there) each year.....so do I get to play!?

 

[Details]

Details,
I wouldn't hang anything from a tree anyway but if I did and I was asked to take it down, I would take it down.
I just think it gets to be alittle nuts when people can't decorate for Halloween without the race card being played.

Given that all around the country, nooses are being hung as threats to black people - I wouldn't say this is the race card. Or - it's not an invalid race card - not sure which way to say it.

As I said, as this one is described, it's just about a perfect representation of one of the old lynching postcards I've seen. That's a bit beyond just 'decorating for Halloween' - it's putting something up - deliberately or out of ignorance - that represents a whole class of people being murdered while the law turned a blind eye or helped out.

Imagine it being a set of skeletons, with a yellow star nearby, in uniforms and posed like some of the famous photos from Aushwitz? It could be completely unaware - but how could anyone not understand when someone Jewish found it offensive. It's not 'just' a Halloween decoration when it looks that much like real dead people in history - and not when that bit of history is undergoing a resurgence among racists right now.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

This is not the same thing as that noose that was left at that black professor's door in NYC last week--That was an outrage, and I hope they find out who did that

 

[Details]

Well, I'm a female and thousands of my kind are killed because of that in China (and other countries - I just picked China because I know more about female infanticide there) each year.....so do I get to play!?

Only if you live in China, or your ancestors did.

Although I don't think you have to have it happen to you to be sympathetic, and to have some understanding, when you think and read about it a bit, of what it would be like to know that your grandpa was hung or just barely escaped a lynch mob; to see the photographs that white people of the time traded and sent around as completely socially acceptable soveniers of dead black men hanging from trees; to hear about nooses showing up around the country; then to think of how you'd react, what it'd look like when there's a noose with a body that looks just like one of those old photos that could have been your own grandfather.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

When I think of nooses, along with the Nazi symbol, I think of the historical "events" in the past that have killed people and that both of these symbols "historically" represent.

Racism is alive and well and living in the USA, no doubt. Ask anyone what is the first thing that comes to mind when they think of a noose, and I would bet, if they are of a "certain" age that they will think of, wait a minute let me think, of yeah, when "people of color" were hung by a noose from a tree and murdered.

Ask any one what they think of when they see a symbol for Nazi Germany and the murder of Jewish people, and they are not going to go and have a coffee and think about it.

It is the perception, not the intent. The symbol for Nazi Germany was around a lot longer before Hitlter decided to use it and of course nooses were around a lot longer then before they were used traditionally as instruments of murder.

Remember when the Prince wore a Nazi costume to a party. A picture was published in the paper. Did the Royals say: Get over it, get past it, no they issued along with the Prince a statement that they did not intend to "minimize" the historical event or the murder of people based on religion and or color.

The fact that this person was "persuaded" after two days to take the the noose speaks volumes about their character or lack thereof.

Oh I forgot also, the Spanish Inquisition was not just a simple Qand A.

If a person is wearing a ghost costume with KKK on it and or a ghost costume with a hood, then yes that is offensive. Rightly so.

A Professor at Columbia was offended when he discovered a noose that was intended as a "message" for him was insulted and extremely offended. That was in New York, so Jersery is fair game also. Racism knows no state lines.

--hey CyberLaw, your country of Canada has a sorry history of racism against blacks jews,chinese, and many others--Go to thecanadianencyclopedia.com:--"In Canada blacks faced widespread discrimination in housing,employment,during the late 19th century to the mid 20th Century--Backs had difficulty being served in hotels restaraunts,theatres,swimming pools and were forced into Segregated Schools--Both World Was Canadian armed force units were reluctant to accept blacks--The KLU KLUX KLAN was formed in CANADA in the 1920's and reached 20,000 members"

 

[Peter Hamilton]

Here's more from the Canadian Encyclopedia: "The diversified origin of Today's Canadian Blacks,whatever their background, face many problems in Canada...Opinion Surveys and Human Rights Commission Reports reveal that blacks in Canada still face discrimination in employment,housing, and public services"

 

[angelmom]

So are you saying that the hanging Halloween 'dummies' are racist?

I don't know if I'd say that all Halloween dummies are racist. (although the Maines family sounds like they are! Haha!)

Anyway...I think a dummy with a black hood, in light of recent news events, might be seen as racist. And when people take offense and ask you to remove it, a civilized person would say, "So sorry, I didn't mean it that way. Just thought it was a good Halloween scare, and never thought about the color of the hood or Jena or the other recent noose incidents. My apologies." Take it down and buy a scarecrow and some pumpkins and mums like normal people so you can be on the copycat neighbor thread.

What sounds racist to me is to get all up in arms over something you CLAIM is an innocent Halloween decoration, and start talking about what "THEY" say and what "THEY" do to take away your rights to put up tacky crap in your yard in honor of Halloween. "Slippery slope" and "pretty soon we won't be able to say Merry Christmas" and "letting the terrorists win" and all that garbage. For Pete's sake, it's enough to make you appreciate your homeowners association.

GMAFB. It's Halloween. The noose is upsetting to some people. Who cares why? A good neighbor would take it down. An ignorant redneck starts humming Dixie and telling you that you can have his Halloween dummy when you pry the rope from his cold dead hands.

Why can't we all just get along?

 

[Peter Hamilton]

from ACCAR(African Canadian Coalition Against Racism)--"Canada has its shameful record of SLAVERY and antiblack racism....(There is) Systemic racism in Canada that is continually directed(against blacks) in Education,Employment,Justice System and Immigration--A Canadian Military unit on a peacekeeping mission was responsible for the torture and murder of a civilian Somali teenager--"

 

[Peter Hamilton]

ACCAR is a national group of more than 40 organizations throughout Canada--"African people Around The World,including Canada,continue to experience the evil effects of racism--Anti-black racism plagues the daily lives of Black men, women and youth in Canada, placing them first in the firing line of the injustices directed to people of colour--Canada also refuses to sign the protocol on the Convention of Elimination of Racial Discrimination,thus giving Canada no accountability in eliminating racism"--well, there you have it--poor CyberLaw's self-righteous rhetoric is now exposed--dontcha just love the internet!

 

[Annie]

I understood from an interview I saw that these people had put up the same Halloween decorations for years and it wasn't just something this year. A noose does not necessarily only relate to black people. In the old West, many people were hung. Some states even had hanging for many years as a means of capital punishment. When I think of a noose I think of the picture of the people hung after the assination of President Abraham Lincoln. It was common to hang people and I think many times a black hood was put over their head. My husband had a great uncle hanged by Judge Parker, the hanging judge of Ft. Smith, Arkansas. I really think these people were just decorating for Halloween, and not making a racial statement.
http://www.historybuff.com/library/refhanging.html

 

[southcitymom]

Only if you live in China, or your ancestors did.

Although I don't think you have to have it happen to you to be sympathetic, and to have some understanding, when you think and read about it a bit, of what it would be like to know that your grandpa was hung or just barely escaped a lynch mob; to see the photographs that white people of the time traded and sent around as completely socially acceptable soveniers of dead black men hanging from trees; to hear about nooses showing up around the country; then to think of how you'd react, what it'd look like when there's a noose with a body that looks just like one of those old photos that could have been your own grandfather.

Well, my goddaughter did! That said, point taken.....

 

[southcitymom]

I don't know if I'd say that all Halloween dummies are racist. (although the Maines family sounds like they are! Haha!)

Anyway...I think a dummy with a black hood, in light of recent news events, might be seen as racist. And when people take offense and ask you to remove it, a civilized person would say, "So sorry, I didn't mean it that way. Just thought it was a good Halloween scare, and never thought about the color of the hood or Jena or the other recent noose incidents. My apologies." Take it down and buy a scarecrow and some pumpkins and mums like normal people so you can be on the copycat neighbor thread.

What sounds racist to me is to get all up in arms over something you CLAIM is an innocent Halloween decoration, and start talking about what "THEY" say and what "THEY" do to take away your rights to put up tacky crap in your yard in honor of Halloween. "Slippery slope" and "pretty soon we won't be able to say Merry Christmas" and "letting the terrorists win" and all that garbage. For Pete's sake, it's enough to make you appreciate your homeowners association.

GMAFB. It's Halloween. The noose is upsetting to some people. Who cares why? A good neighbor would take it down. An ignorant redneck starts humming Dixie and telling you that you can have his Halloween dummy when you pry the rope from his cold dead hands.

Why can't we all just get along?

Rodney King had a point!

 

[Paladin]

When I think of nooses, along with the Nazi symbol, I think of the historical "events" in the past that have killed people and that both of these symbols "historically" represent.

Racism is alive and well and living in the USA, no doubt. Ask anyone what is the first thing that comes to mind when they think of a noose, and I would bet, if they are of a "certain" age that they will think of, wait a minute let me think, of yeah, when "people of color" were hung by a noose from a tree and murdered.

Ask any one what they think of when they see a symbol for Nazi Germany and the murder of Jewish people, and they are not going to go and have a coffee and think about it.

It is the perception, not the intent. The symbol for Nazi Germany was around a lot longer before Hitlter decided to use it and of course nooses were around a lot longer then before they were used traditionally as
instruments of murder.

Remember when the Prince wore a Nazi costume to a party. A picture was published in the paper. Did the Royals say: Get over it, get past it, no they issued along with the Prince a statement that they did not intend to "minimize" the historical event or the murder of people based on religion and or color.

The fact that this person was "persuaded" after two days to take the the noose speaks volumes about their character or lack thereof.

Oh I forgot also, the Spanish Inquisition was not just a simple Q and A.

If a person is wearing a ghost costume with KKK on it and or a ghost costume with a hood, then yes that is offensive. Rightly so.

A Professor at Columbia was offended when he discovered a noose that was intended as a "message" for him was insulted and extremely offended. That was in New York, so Jersery is fair game also. Racism knows no state lines.

Well, you're right. Racism knows no state lines. My intent was to say that racism is more prevalent down in the south than it is in the north. You make some excellent points about the Nazi symbol and the noose though I must say.

 

[Paladin]

To put a black hood on it and pretend to be unaware of the implications given the recent national events is disingenuous at best and race-baiting at worst.

I would normally agree, but you're assuming these people pay attention to national/world news as much as you and I do.

 

[Details]

I would normally agree, but you're assuming these people pay attention to national/world news as much as you and I do.

They may not have known at first. Once they were told, they knew what it was looking like. But they didn't want to take it down at first, for a few days, then took it all down and put up a big pouty "so there" sign blaming the complainant for cancelling halloween and christmas decorations.

I don't really think they're racist - I think they're mad that people dared to complain, and that they can't just have their way on this. But they're being jerks about it, and seem to completely lack any sensitivity or understanding.

 

[Paladin]

They may not have known at first. Once they were told, they knew what it was looking like. But they didn't want to take it down at first, for a few days, then took it all down and put up a big pouty "so there" sign blaming the complainant for cancelling halloween and christmas decorations.

I don't really think they're racist - I think they're mad that people dared to complain, and that they can't just have their way on this. But they're being jerks about it, and seem to completely lack any sensitivity or understanding.

I can see where they are coming from. Something that they have probably been doing for years with the best of intentions is now being besmudged because someone has a bad memory.

They feel slighted as Americans because they've been expressing themselves and now their beliefs and intentions are coming into question. We send our boys to war and death to supposedly defend this thing called "freedom" and within that is contained "freedom of speech", but apparently it only applies when it agrees with EVERYONE.

Pretty soon we'll have no freedom of speech because everyone defending it will lack sensitivity or understanding.

 

[White Rain]

Saddam was hung...he wasn't black...

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think racism is alive and well in every country worldwide. It will remain to be as long as people keep rehashing it over and over because the reminders serve as a new cause for our children to take sides.

When people realize the only way to truly fight racism is to move on and teach children that we are all just human and ancestry is something to be celebrated instead of thrown in one another's faces...racism will continue to be passed from each generation.

African Americans can't forget. The Jewish community can't forget. Everyone who has EVER been discriminated against...cannot forget! If we choose not to forget then we create an atmosphere of fear, injustice, and reciprocity which goes against what we should be going for...which is a society that acknowledges our ancestors treated each other horribly then proceeds with the knowledge of peace and acceptance of one another to apply in our futures.

It is one thing to keep it in place as all of our history, but it is another to keep the fires of anger and resentment burning in our daily lives. There will always be reminders of our history good and bad, but people need to have some perspective. A Halloween noose is just a scary, spooky, and creepy art project. A white sheet as a ghost is a ghost. People only read into it what they choose...and if they forget it...then a Halloween noose returns to being a scary, spooky, and creepy art project instead of some symbol of injustice.

I know people will instantly be angry at my suggestion we forget because they will misunderstand what I am implying. So before you thrash me...take a minute and try to comprehend it from a nonjudgemental view. If you cannot...then you will never get the concept of being free of racism.

 

[MissieMt]

While I was reading this I wondered if the dummy was wearing a different color hood if the reaction would have been any different. Also, when I think of nooses not only do I think of the South, but I also think of Europe, and the American West.

I can see this being an issue if the decoration was down past the Mason-Dixon line, but this occurred in New Jersey.

I can see both sides of the issue on this one, and that's what interested me in posting it here.

On the one hand, I was thinking what's the big deal in taking it down if it is upsetting people so much? Explain to them it wasn't your intention to depict a racial scene and take it down. Be creative with your decorations and celebrate the holiday using something else.

On the other hand, it was a seemingly harmless Halloween decoration, one that I've seen many times throughout the years. I doubt it was a veiled reference to a Southern lynching. Pretty soon we'll have nothing to decorate with or talk about if someone is always going to be offended by something.

Does this mean people will have to stop using white bed sheets as ghosts in trees because they might be mistaken for Klan members? Something to think about.

Paladin, sweety-I usually agree with your posts 100% but this one stopped me in my tracks. Racism is not just an issue south of the mason dixon line. I heard more hateful words while living in Wy. than I ever heard here (Mississippi) and in my home state of Texas. You hear about it more often here because of history, but it is just that-history. I'm not saying that things are always perfect here, but you can't possibly think that this should only be considered an issue south of the mason dixon line.

 

[Paladin]

Paladin, sweety-I usually agree with your posts 100% but this one stopped me in my tracks. Racism is not just an issue south of the mason dixon line. I heard more hateful words while living in Wy. than I ever heard here (Mississippi) and in my home state of Texas. You hear about it more often here because of history, but it is just that-history. I'm not saying that things are always perfect here, but you can't possibly think that this should only be considered an issue south of the mason dixon line.

You're absolutely right. I guess what I meant to say is I'd expect this to happen in the South moreso in the North but that isn't a guarantee.