Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[CarolinaMoon]

And the agony continues...

I wonder what Jahi would have wanted. She was afraid she wouldn't wake up, but would she have wanted her precious remains to slowly deteriorate while a ventilator kept pumping air into her and medication kept her heart beating? Would she have wanted all the court suits? Would she have wanted to have nurses around her seeing to all her bodily functions?

Mom and the family need to think about it.

 

[Donjeta]

And the agony continues...

I wonder what Jahi would have wanted. She was afraid she wouldn't wake up, but would she have wanted her precious remains to slowly deteriorate while a ventilator kept pumping air into her and medication kept her heart beating? Would she have wanted all the court suits? Would she have wanted to have nurses around her seeing to all her bodily functions?

Mom and the family need to think about it.

Every day on the ventilator is one more day of not waking up for Jahi, just what she was afraid of.

 

[Softail]

"She still looks good. She still looks like Jahi. That keeps us going," Sealy added

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/mcmaths-family-struggles-get-surgeries-teen/ncZhP/


:doh:

 

[K_Z]

"She still looks good. She still looks like Jahi. That keeps us going," Sealy added

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/mcmaths-family-struggles-get-surgeries-teen/ncZhP/


:doh:

I'm rather disturbed by that statement, and the implications.

IMO, that statement is as disturbing as the comments made by the mother that she was glad Jahi was "thick", and that she was losing weight, but ""still look good".

I just don't understand these kind of comments, and what they hope to convey to the public. It would generate more sympathy, IMO, if they would just stick to talking about how much they love her, and miss her voice and her smile, and tell stories about the happy teen.

IMO, those kind of statements just show their profound lack of understanding of what is going on. And more voluntary denial. The word "still" seems to be a crack in that denial, in both the statement from the mom, and the one from the uncle. IMO.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I'm rather disturbed by that statement, and the implications.

IMO, that statement is as disturbing as the comments made by the mother that she was glad Jahi was "thick", and that she was losing weight, but ""still look good".

I just don't understand these kind of comments, and what they hope to convey to the public. It would generate more sympathy, IMO, if they would just stick to talking about how much they love her, and miss her voice and her smile, and tell stories about the happy teen.

IMO, those kind of statements just show their profound lack of understanding of what is going on. And more voluntary denial. The word "still" seems to be a crack in that denial, in both the statement from the mom, and the one from the uncle. IMO.

ITA I spotted that "still" as well. Will they finally let her go when she no longer looks like herself?

 

[Donjeta]

I am sure he did not mean it that way but it kinda sounds like they wouldn't consider fighting against the definition of brain death because of their religious convictions if she was, say, badly burned and didn't look like herself any more.

Perhaps this statement illustrates one reason why the determination of death is usually thought to be a job for qualified doctors, not for distressed family members who may make decisions based on arbitrary criteria.

 

[jjenny]

Couldn't find time of death for death certificate but found this.
http://www.surgery.ucsf.edu/eastbaytrauma/Protocols/ICU protocol pages/brain death.htm

Exactly. Independent means a second doctor independent from the first one. Not the second doctor from a different hospital.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

Does this family seriously think this is a great place to take her? Have they even checked it out?

This is no place to take someone much less someone hooked up to a breathing machine.

I doubt the place even has air conditioning.

I am reading this thread and trying to keep up with its fast pace. All this legal talk about what is dead, who does the feeding tube, where is she to be transported, - in all this I keep thinking that these are not the real crisis issues. Even the poor little girl's fate is nothing compared to the dilemma her mother faces. This mother is in such extreme anguish and it seems there are nothing but vultures flying all around. I just want to scream at her family for perpetuating the unfathomable pain for this mother. Has anyone in her family even attempted to make her understand this was not her fault and that this doesn't have to be her sole burden?

 

[Donjeta]

The following is from Dolan's federal petition (it's obviously been written in haste, judging from the grammar) :

60. Jahi McMath is a handicapped and/or disabled individual as that term is defined under both the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.
61. Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act prohibits discrimination against an "otherwise qualified" handicapped individual, solely by reason of his or her handicap, under any program or activity receiving federal financial assistance.
62. Hospitals such Defendant Children's Hospital Oakland, that accepts Medicare and Medicaid funding, is subject to the Rehabilitation Act.
63. The Hospital has admitted that the sole reason it wishes to withhold ventilator treatment and the sole reason it refuses to provide nutrition and other medical treatment over her mother's objections is because of Jahi's brain injury - her handicap and disability.
64. Jahi is "otherwise qualified" to receive treatment despite dismal long term prospects of living.

etc
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195185964...ec-30-2013-McMath-Civil-Rights-Lawsuit-filing
page 13



It may be the first time that I've seen death described as a handicap and a deceased person described as "otherwise qualified" with "dismal long term prospects of living".

This would be funny if it wasn't for Jahi being dead.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

"She still looks good. She still looks like Jahi. That keeps us going," Sealy added



http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/mcmaths-family-struggles-get-surgeries-teen/ncZhP/





:doh:

Ok, this right here I understand. I believe, more than anything, we are seeing the difference in the way one culture views life and death. I'm trying to stay PC, but I am immersed in this culture and know intimately their view on death, life, organ donation, religion and spirituality. This statement doesn't surprise me in the least, but I knew it would catch some off guard and was hoping it could be addressed. This is just one piece of the puzzle that explains why this family holds on so tight. Therefore, IMO, it is their pastor's responsibility to let this mother let her little girl go. I believe the burden rests on her religious community to relieve this mother of her anguish.

 

[Elley Mae]

The following is from Dolan's federal petition (it's obviously been written in haste, judging from the grammar) :


etc
http://www.scribd.com/doc/195185964...ec-30-2013-McMath-Civil-Rights-Lawsuit-filing
page 13



It may be the first time that I've seen death described as a handicap and a deceased person described as "otherwise qualified" with "dismal long term prospects of living".

This would be funny if it wasn't for Jahi being dead.

Like this headline here. the key word bbm

Terri Schiavo family supporting Jahi McMath’s fight to stay alive

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...join-fight-jahi-mcmath-life-article-1.1564085

 

[jjenny]

Like this headline here. the key word bbm

Terri Schiavo family supporting Jahi McMath’s fight to stay alive

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...join-fight-jahi-mcmath-life-article-1.1564085

Lawyer wants Jahi to have "world class innovative treatments" like Ariel Sharon in Israel. Last I heard Sharon was near death. And he is in PVS, not brain dead.
So I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the idea that a brain dead person can get "world class innovative treatments."

 

[Donjeta]

Lawyer wants Jahi to have "world class innovative treatments" like Ariel Sharon in Israel. Last I heard Sharon was near death. And he is in PVS, not brain dead.
So I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the idea that a brain dead person can get "world class innovative treatments."

More misinformation (bbm):

Officials with the Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network revealed that it has been quietly working behind the scenes to keep Jahi McMath, 13, alive — citing her pulse and breathing as a sign that she should continue to receive treatment.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...i-mcmath-life-article-1.1564085#ixzz2pFmoi4Oj

 

[Elley Mae]

"The Superior Court correctly concluded, after three days of hearings and based on uncontroverted evidence, that Ms. McMath is, sadly, deceased," the papers state. "Turning off a ventilator that assists in delivery of oxygen of a dead person causes no irreparable harm - regardless of the parental or religious beliefs of the decedent's family."

The federal court has said it does not plan to act on the request until the case has worked its way through the state courts.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jahi-mc...-find-surgeons-to-operate-on-brain-dead-teen/

 

[BeginnersLuck]

These are my questions too! Why not just allow the 2 procedures they are requesting (both I am told can be performed bedside) and let this family take her home. It is a fact that there are other people who are "technically" brain dead that are being kept alive and cared for in private facilities or private homes by family that pays for medical staff to supplement their own care for a family member aren't there? This little girl's family isn't requesting something that has never been done before or is being done now to other patients in her similar medical condition....are they?

Is it that they are afraid of setting some sort of precedent that they feel is dangerous? Or is it more nefarious and they just are determined that this girl is not only technically brain dead but her heart has stopped and she is dead in every sense of the word after being removed from a machine that is mechanically keeping her alive right now?

It is true that parents sign documents all the time that say there are risks in any medical procedure, but does that signature absolve a hospital or a physician from all responsibility if in fact they screwed up? And who decides when it is a valid case to wait and attempt to get more information and facts about the initial surgery or the aftercare of the patient when there is a question as to mistakes made? The hospital should get to be the decider? Does that sound right? Sounds more like the fox guarding the hen-house to me...

No, she has been legally declared dead. No one can operate due to legal and ethical reasons. This is why they haven't been able to find another facility or physician to take her. If it was just a matter of this particular hospital, then they would have transferred her to the next closest hospital and had these procedures done. What people don't understand is this is a across the board issue. No physician is going to risk loosing their license or risk the many other implications that could result from operating on her body when there is no medical reason to do so. There is zero chance of reversal of death.

There are very few other cases of children that have been taken home in this condition to study. I haven't yet looked at them to see if they had the surgeries that they are asking to be performed on Jahi. If they did, the surgeries may have been performed before the patient was legally declared dead.

Furthermore, I question whether her heart would cease beating at this point during any kind of invasive procedure.

The bottom line is though, there is no physicians (it would require more than one) to do this procedure, that are willing to risk everything they worked for and go against the laws, by operating on a deceased body.

 

[Linda7NJ]

RSBM: Just as one cannot yell "fire' in a crowded room, giving birth does not give one free reign to do as they wish to their child/children.

I would think keeping them breathing would rank top of the list.


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[jjenny]

I would think keeping them breathing would rank top of the list.


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On a ventillator with no chance of recovery? Why?

 

[LaLaw2000]

I have no medical knowledge or training, but I do feel that whatever is best for Jahi is what should be done. I do find it hard to believe that 6 doctors would all be wrong. If she is no longer with us, then please let her go with peace and dignity. She has neither at this point, IMO. GB this precious child.

MOO

 

[Donjeta]

I would think keeping them breathing would rank top of the list.


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It is too late to do that for Jahi.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

A simple question, and my apologies if this has been asked/answered: Given that Jahi has no brain activity, what bodily functions does she have other than breathing and a heartbeat with the aid of the ventilator?