Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[popsicle]

Laura Anthony ‏@LauraAnthony7 2m
AlCo coroner confirms they did issue a death certificate for #Jahi McMath this morning. It's "generic" with no specific information.

 

[meanmaryjean]

BTW- the children our agency serves that are on home vents are NOT brain-dead. They have a variety of conditions including muscular dystrophy, traumatic brain injuries, congenital heart defects and (in the case of my kiddo) broncho-pulmonary dysplasia secondary to extreme prematurity.

 

[Karmady]

If they do in fact take her to the family residence, it almost seems like the bigger problem, rather than the vent, is the g-tube, since they're accusing CHO of starving her. Without it they won't have any way of feeding her. And of course they'll need someone to assist with these things. I'm not sure how the federal court could compel the procedures to be done, but I guess they could send it back to state court.

As I understand it, the Fed Ct. already said that and the State Court issued an appealable ruling on that issue this morning. jmo

 

[newmrsc]

she has an IV....

I'm medically ignorant, ha. Is the IV enough? I thought the family was upset that they were only using the IV and wanted more. But I guess there's other things they could be feeding intravenously?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I'm medically ignorant, ha. Is the IV enough? I thought the family was upset that they were only using the IV and wanted more. But I guess there's other things they could be feeding intravenously?

Jahi's mother probably wants to be able to feed her child the food that she was accustomed to eating: burgers, ice cream, etc. I doubt that this can be done with a feeding tube.

 

[momrids6]

I'm medically ignorant, ha. Is the IV enough? I thought the family was upset that they were only using the IV and wanted more. But I guess there's other things they could be feeding intravenously?

the poor little boy that went home on a vent in Utah was fed nutrients and vitamins through his IV- his body gave out a month after transfer to his home. His body showed decomp

 

[Herat]

It doesn't yet. But it easily could if the family gets their way. If brain dead is not dead-dead, then insurers could be forced to cover it under Obamacare or Medicaid/Medicare would. The financial burden would be astronomical. Of course that assumes that people would decide to warehouse brain dead family members indefinitely so long as someone else is paying the cost. jmo

The insurance ceases the moment her brain death is recorded in the chart.

That includes Medicare and Medicaid/Medical.

All costs will have to be either paid by the responsible relative, paid by contributions or charitable organizations, or assumed by the "facility".

This has nothing to do with the ACA.

 

[Karmady]

The insurance ceases the moment her brain death is recorded in the chart.

That includes Medicare and Medicaid/Medical.

All costs will have to be either paid by the responsible relative, paid by contributions or charitable organizations, or assumed by the "facility".

This has nothing to do with the ACA.

Right. That's what I said. NOW it doesn't have anything to do with it. But that could easily change if things go the family's way. Brain dead will no longer be dead-dead AND the coverage could become mandatory. Just like pre-exisiting injuries, coverage for children up to age 25, etc.

 

[popsicle]

Matthias Gafni ‏@mgafni 56s
Medic flight comp says on stand-by, but hasn't heard from #JahiMcMath family re: flight to NY; nothing imminent. More http://bit.ly/JOsecG

 

[Steft50]

we could be in for a new nightmare scenario as suggested by Robin Cook's medical novel, Coma.

I see facilities lined with beds containing the brain dead. I envision row upon row of ventilators, feeding tubes, every medication and nutrient feeding the "patients". Legions of nurses, CNA's, LVN's, registered nurses, doctors, and surgeons tend to every medical necessity to keep the "patients" at their peak performance until the inevitable happens. The bed is not empty for long, there is another "patient" on the waiting list.

All of this at a tremendous cost to our society, morally, emotionally, and economically.

Is this what they want?

It's funny you mentioned the Robin Cook book, I keep thinking about a sci fi show on BBC-A. It was about our world if people stopped dying. Not healing, but not dying when they normally would have. What sounds great soon turns into horrendous chaos of never ending pain, infections, imagine being severly burned in a fire in which you would normally die, and you not only don't die, but you don't heal either. Over time this bankrupts countries, over runs hospitals so they have to assign levels of illness with the worst of the worst being warehoused in, well, warehouses. The end solution is to cremate alive those who are the worst, those who before this "miracle" would have died.

That is an extreme version but I can fully understand what you are saying in comparing this to the book Coma. Warehousing those who are diagnosed brain dead, finding ways to keep them breathing for how long? This is a horrible vision of where this could possibly lead.

 

[Donjeta]

Dolan called the agreement a "victory," but the family still needs to find a doctor to insert the breathing and feeding tubes.

"Until this agreement was just made, everything was in flux. This just removes all those impediments," he told a throng of media outside court. He said "there are doctors who are willing to do the procedure" but would not name them.

Is it me or is this contradictory? Do they still need to find willing doctors or do they have them?

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24840745/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter

 

[Herat]

Right. That's what I said. NOW it doesn't have anything to do with it. But that could easily change if things go the family's way. Brain dead will no longer be dead-dead AND the coverage could become mandatory. Just like pre-exisiting injuries, coverage for children up to age 25, etc.

It can't "easily" change. It is codified law in all 50 states. You would also have the full weight of the health insurance industry, and the bugetary forces behind Medicare and Medicaid against it.

I can't see Congress allowing any law where brain dead people get benefits.

 

[popsicle]

Dolan called the agreement a "victory," but the family still needs to find a doctor to insert the breathing and feeding tubes.

"Until this agreement was just made, everything was in flux. This just removes all those impediments," he told a throng of media outside court. He said "there are doctors who are willing to do the procedure" but would not name them.

He said that getting Jahi nutrition quickly was key because she has not had any for "24 days."

So they still need to find a doctor to insert the tubes but then he says there are doctors but he would not name them. huh? Also, did he forget they need to have a place to do these procedures? His spin just makes me so sick.

 

[Karmady]

It can't "easily" change. It is codified law in all 50 states. You would also have the full weight of the health insurance industry, and the bugetary forces behind Medicare and Medicaid against it.

I can't see Congress allowing any law where brain dead people get benefits.

Believe me. I hope you're right. And, hopefully, it won't get that far.

jmo

 

[Herat]

Is it me or is this contradictory? Do they still need to find willing doctors or do they have them?

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24840745/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter

Who knows. It's attorney double-speak.

Not just any old doctor can do this and most significantly, the court just denied a request for CHO to perform the procedures.

 

[Elley Mae]

Just catching up on the court rulings, and thank you very much to all who have posted the twitter feeds and updates!

Here's a thought. What if the Top Secret Care Facility (thanks Herat!) IS actually the Winkfield home?



BBM

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24840745/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter

The continued request for the trach and gastrostomy tube could be from a home care agency who is willing to come into the Winkfield home and do 24/7 care.

Hmmmm.....

I have thought all along that their intent was to keep her there, they just needed the vent and trach to be able to take her home. I still want to know what insurance will pay for the nurses/home health care person.

 

[momrids6]

So they still need to find a doctor to insert the tubes but then he says there are doctors but he would not name them. huh? Also, did he forget they need to have a place to do these procedures? His spin just makes me so sick.

Um- get off the pot guy- since the agreement- she needs to go HOME now- immediately- 10 minutes ago- if there is no contract for outside facility. You wanted it- you got it.

ETA: that poor PICU staff; if the family thinks this is easy- they can do it, imo

 

[Elley Mae]

Laura Anthony ‏@LauraAnthony7 2m
AlCo coroner confirms they did issue a death certificate for #Jahi McMath this morning. It's "generic" with no specific information.

So a death certificate has been issued.

 

[meme4]

Matthias Gafni ‏@mgafni 56s
Medic flight comp says on stand-by, but hasn't heard from #JahiMcMath family re: flight to NY; nothing imminent. More http://bit.ly/JOsecG

I guess we can conclude from that tweet, she indeed will be going to the construction site or maybe that's what they'd like us to believe......I know longer know what to believe except I cant believe the luancy of the situation, no one wins anything here......I also think this is no longer about Jahi, the lawyer nor the mom in my opinion are being heroic, it seems to be about I am not backing down till I get my way, meanwhile all this little girl has left is her dignity, and it is being trampled all over.....Shame on them.......Where is her minister??

 

[Donjeta]

http://ideas.time.com/2014/01/03/why-brain-death-really-is-death/

When doctors say ‘brain dead’ instead of dead they confuse family members, the media, judges and the public. Calling someone brain dead makes it sound like they are almost dead, sort of dead, kind of dead but not really dead—which they are.

When doctors or others talk about stopping ‘life-support’ on a brain dead person they make it sound like they are ending care for a living person. But in removing life-supporting machines from the brain dead doctors are simply engaged in one of the last mandatory acts they must perform when someone has died.

Doctors and hospitals commonly give families a little time to say good-bye to the deceased patient before discontinuing ventilators. In California, this is required by law. It is important to recognize that this is not for the good of the patient since the patient has passed away. It is for the good of the family. But saying good-bye and beginning the grieving process cannot happen for either of these families until there is a recognition of the reality of death. Our technology makes it possible for the deceased to appear “life like.” It does not change the facts.