Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Kaliste]

Andria Borba ‏@andria_borba 47s

Sketch artist Vicki Behringer says federal judge in #JahiMcMath case is holding everyone in court until an agreement is reached. @CBSSF

That is a smart judge! This circus has gone on far too long, IMO

 

[popsicle]

Andria Borba ‏@andria_borba 2m
#McMath attorney Christopher Dolan says via text there should be a ruling from a federal judge within the hour. @CBSSF

 

[Minette]

I am one of the lucky mothers. My son died on a highway as he was removed from his crumpled vehicle. The autopsy indicated brain bleeding. Had he survived long enough to be in ICU on a ventilator to later be declared brain dead I honestly cannot say how I would act/react. My luck was in never having to make "that"decision.

I am so sorry for your loss. This case must truly tear at your heart. :hug:

 

[jaxibear]

Perhaps the doctor said she was DEAD DEAD DEAD because mom is in denial and believes her child is alive. Some people view honesty as harsh, rude and unnecessary while others find it refreshing and needed. I personally would not be comfortable with my or my daughters physicians giving me false hope or sugar coating the truth. Lay it all out, I'll get my cuddles and support from friends and family. But, that's just me.

It's so interesting how widely opinions vary on this.

I find it hard to believe that a representative of a hospital that deals with sensitive issues on a daily basis would be so rude to a grieving parent. If he actually was, in my opinion, he should be reprimanded.

I wonder if he told her mother that Jahi was dead and, out of shock and "tunnel vision" she heard the words echo over and over and over. That has happened to me upon hearing bad news.

Just a thought...

 

[J1981]

Andria Borba ‏@andria_borba 2m
#McMath attorney Christopher Dolan says via text there should be a ruling from a federal judge within the hour. @CBSSF

I'm not sure what sticks out more- that the attorney is texting or that what this case needed was a judge to say "alright guys, nobody leaves until you figure this out. Ready set go". Can't wait to hear the ruling!

 

[MaybeNotToday]

Morgan and Morgan (attorneys in FL) commercials says it is. They advertise to call the bar and report it.

I've worked for all kinds of lawyers for 15 years, and none of them would do that. Also, none of them would perpetuate something this gruesome. And I've been with some sketchy ones!

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Perhaps the doctor said she was DEAD DEAD DEAD because mom is in denial and believes her child is alive. Some people view honesty as harsh, rude and unnecessary while others find it refreshing and needed. I personally would not be comfortable with my or my daughters physicians giving me false hope or sugar coating the truth. Lay it all out, I'll get my cuddles and support from friends and family. But, that's just me.

It's so interesting how widely opinions vary on this.

Right. There are many opinions about what dead is.
While the doctor and many others no doubt think Jahi is DEAD DEAD DEAD her mother and many others no doubt think she is ALIVE ALIVE ALIVE.

That's where my interest and compassion comes in. For her mother.

I don't think we should have a right to tell her that she has no choice in the matter. It's her child. Who is on a ventilator. She will die most likely on the ventilator. But her mother is holding out all hope that the doctors are wrong and that her precious daughter will receive a miracle.
I don't want to get into a religious discussion but my Bible tells me that not only are miracles possible, they have happened and will continue to happen. So who is to say I'm right and the others are wrong. Or that the others are right and I'm wrong.

IMO her Mother should have the say on when or if that plug is pulled.

Is just my opinion and I'm aware most don't agree.

But I can't help but to side with Mom on this one.

 

[Steft50]

people are telling you she's DEAD. DEAD. DEAD.

she thinks is right for her child.

On the first item, we have so far not seen verifiable evidence that that even occured.

On the second item, at this point is she doing what is best for her child or what is best for herself? That is a question there are many asking ask well.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I respect your opinion. In fact, it was my opinion two days ago. While a mother should have the final say on her child's life, do you feel at this point that it's fair that hospital rules should be broken, laws ignored, welfare of other patients threatened all for one mother's denial?

No. I think she should be moved.

 

[newmrsc]

Re: ethics of Dolan contacting the family: http://rules.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/10/documents/2013_CaliforniaRulesofProfessionalConduct.pdf

See page 6.

I think it's only a breach if it's actually done in person at the hospital. A phone call may be an exception. Could be potentially a problem with it being at a time of severe emotional distress, but it would be arguable whether the uncle could or could not exercise judgment as to retaining counsel.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I am one of the lucky mothers. My son died on a highway as he was removed from his crumpled vehicle. The autopsy indicated brain bleeding. Had he survived long enough to be in ICU on a ventilator to later be declared brain dead I honestly cannot say how I would act/react. My luck was in never having to make "that"decision.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I can not even imagine.

 

[momrids6]

I don't think we should have a right to tell her that she has no choice in the matter. It's her child. Who is on a ventilator. She will die most likely on the ventilator. But her mother is holding out all hope that the doctors are wrong and that her precious daughter will receive a miracle.
I don't want to get into a religious discussion but my Bible tells me that not only are miracles possible, they have happened and will continue to happen. So who is to say I'm right and the others are wrong. Or that the others are right and I'm wrong.

.

RSBM/BBM : It is the law- it is not anyone "telling her" . It is the law

 

[MaybeNotToday]

So he says.



http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfranci...-representing-jahi-mcmath/Content?oid=2658052



It was the night of Dec. 16 at about 10. I had just finished a trial in a civil-rights case in federal court. I had been up all night the night before preparing my closing argument. I was tired and told my wife I needed a break. Then I got a text.



A friend from Los Angeles said there was a man in the Bay Area claiming his niece was on life support and the hospital was going to pull the plug the next morning. Could I give him a call? The account seemed unbelievable, but I made the call. That's when I met Omari, Jahi's uncle.

I guess that's why they call them ambulance chasers. Ugh

 

[Zuri]

I am one of the lucky mothers. My son died on a highway as he was removed from his crumpled vehicle. The autopsy indicated brain bleeding. Had he survived long enough to be in ICU on a ventilator to later be declared brain dead I honestly cannot say how I would act/react. My luck was in never having to make "that"decision.

I am so so sorry for your loss. You have lived every mother's worst nightmare. I think you would have made the call if you had to. Your kindness and compassion is reflected in every post and you would have done whatever was best for your son, whatever that might have been.

 

[Isabelle]

I am so sorry for your loss. This case must truly tear at your heart. :hug:

It does, but not from my loss. I am affected more by my experience as an NICU/PICU/Peds nurse. I have so many questions. I want to know what kind of emotional support has been given to the mother/family. Have any grief counselors worked with her to try to ease her transition to becoming a kidow (a term used to describe those of us who have lost a child\children) after being a mother. Seems CHO has a great pastoral care department and I hope the mother had the opportunity to interact with that department.

 

[SophieRose]

That's what I'm thinking too.

We didn't put the date that was on my grandmothers death cert on her headstone. Because she passed around 11:30 pm. We were in the room with her.
By the time the dr came in to pronounce it was after 12:30 am. So her cert says the day after she actually passed.

Nobody gave us any trouble about the dates. Even though they don't match.

When doing genealogy I often find the dates of death on certificates or the SS# death index often don't match the gravestone date, sometimes even being days off.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

RSBM: California law dictates death determination is made by medical professionals. Please provide the transcript of the conversation where Dr Durand uses that exact wording. That is heresay at the moment.

You and I both know her Mom said that's what she was told. I have no reason to doubt her.
Do you have any transcripts to any conversations at all in this matter?
If not I guess we can't believe what anybody says. And everything except court documents is hearsay.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

On the first item, we have so far not seen verifiable evidence that that even occured.

On the second item, at this point is she doing what is best for her child or what is best for herself? That is a question there are many asking ask well.

You snipped my post all up.

But, the mother said that's what she was told. You may doubt it. I don't.

Second part. I said "what she thinks is best for her child".

 

[Minette]

It does, but not from my loss. I am affected more by my experience as an NICU/PICU/Peds nurse. I have so many questions. I want to know what kind of emotional support has been given to the mother/family. Have any grief counselors worked with her to try to ease her transition to becoming a kidow (a term used to describe those of us who have lost a child\children) after being a mother. Seems CHO has a great pastoral care department and I hope the mother had the opportunity to interact with that department.

I wonder about the grief counselors as well, and whether they have spoken with other pastors than their own. I wish Dolan, or the Schiavo Foundation or SOMEONE would help this family connect with counselors. What I am afraid of is that they might think that speaking to a grief counselor is tantamount to accepting that Jahi is dead, when in fact grief is an emotion felt for all sorts of reasons, including serious illness of a child, end of a relationship, etc.

 

[Donjeta]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304325004579296290047481758

Similar issues arose in the case of Motl Brody, a 12-year-old boy from an Orthodox Jewish family who in 2008 was declared brain dead after a struggle with cancer. Though there is disagreement in the Orthodox community over whether to accept brain death as the standard for determining when a person has died, the Brody family believed that Motl was still alive and that they had an obligation to do whatever they could to care for him until they were sure he had died. Arguing for religious freedom, the family challenged the hospital's decision to declare Motl dead and withdraw life support. He died when his heart stopped before a court could rule.

The legal question of whether parents can disagree with a medical declaration of death as a matter of religious liberty remains unsettled. New York is one of the few states whose laws on the determination of death allow for "reasonable accommodation" of the family's or the patient's religious beliefs.