Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Kimberlyd125]

RSBM/BBM : It is the law- it is not anyone "telling her" . It is the law

When it comes to my child, I could give two flips about the law.
I will always fight for what I think is the best for my child. That's what this mother is doing. In court.

She is doing what we all have the right to do. As parents and as citizens.

 

[momrids6]

It does, but not from my loss. I am affected more by my experience as an NICU/PICU/Peds nurse. I have so many questions. I want to know what kind of emotional support has been given to the mother/family. Have any grief counselors worked with her to try to ease her transition to becoming a kidow (a term used to describe those of us who have lost a child\children) after being a mother. Seems CHO has a great pastoral care department and I hope the mother had the opportunity to interact with that department.

According to a statement upthread from CHO, she has been receiving daily support from the counselors and pastoral care.

 

[Zuri]

Right. There are many opinions about what dead is.
While the doctor and many others no doubt think Jahi is DEAD DEAD DEAD her mother and many others no doubt think she is ALIVE ALIVE ALIVE.

That's where my interest and compassion comes in. For her mother.

I don't think we should have a right to tell her that she has no choice in the matter. It's her child. Who is on a ventilator. She will die most likely on the ventilator. But her mother is holding out all hope that the doctors are wrong and that her precious daughter will receive a miracle.
I don't want to get into a religious discussion but my Bible tells me that not only are miracles possible, they have happened and will continue to happen. So who is to say I'm right and the others are wrong. Or that the others are right and I'm wrong.

IMO her Mother should have the say on when or if that plug is pulled.

Is just my opinion and I'm aware most don't agree.

But I can't help but to side with Mom on this one.

I really appreciate your compassion for her mother.
I have compassion for Jahi. If I told you that every day Jahi remains on a vent, in the ICU was torture, torturing Jahi, would you still feel the same way?
Defining death. Take away the vent, what remains? Many of us have had to deal with death and dying, not on our terms. I believe in death with dignity and the dignity for Jahi was lost weeks ago. JMV

 

[Donjeta]

https://twitter.com/mgafni/status/419267737525813248/photo/1

Matthias Gafni
‏@mgafni
Copy of Alameda County Superior Court minutes where agreement read between #JahiMcMath family & @Hospital4Kids pic.twitter.com/6j4mzAmwkR

 

[momrids6]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304325004579296290047481758

Similar issues arose in the case of Motl Brody, a 12-year-old boy from an Orthodox Jewish family who in 2008 was declared brain dead after a struggle with cancer. Though there is disagreement in the Orthodox community over whether to accept brain death as the standard for determining when a person has died, the Brody family believed that Motl was still alive and that they had an obligation to do whatever they could to care for him until they were sure he had died. Arguing for religious freedom, the family challenged the hospital's decision to declare Motl dead and withdraw life support. He died when his heart stopped before a court could rule.

The legal question of whether parents can disagree with a medical declaration of death as a matter of religious liberty remains unsettled. New York is one of the few states whose laws on the determination of death allow for "reasonable accommodation" of the family's or the patient's religious beliefs.

Motl's heart stopped on November 15, 2008, and he was buried on November 16.[9] The court case was never resolved and, with Motl's death, is unlikely ever to be.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-11-16-braindead-death_N.htm

 

[popsicle]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 5m
still talkng by order of court will be no major developments. We continue to clear obstacles hoped for extraction before the TRO expires

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304325004579296290047481758

Similar issues arose in the case of Motl Brody, a 12-year-old boy from an Orthodox Jewish family who in 2008 was declared brain dead after a struggle with cancer. Though there is disagreement in the Orthodox community over whether to accept brain death as the standard for determining when a person has died, the Brody family believed that Motl was still alive and that they had an obligation to do whatever they could to care for him until they were sure he had died. Arguing for religious freedom, the family challenged the hospital's decision to declare Motl dead and withdraw life support. He died when his heart stopped before a court could rule.

The legal question of whether parents can disagree with a medical declaration of death as a matter of religious liberty remains unsettled. New York is one of the few states whose laws on the determination of death allow for "reasonable accommodation" of the family's or the patient's religious beliefs.

That's good to know.
JMO

 

[Steft50]

You snipped my post all up.

But, the mother said that's what she was told. You may doubt it. I don't.

Second part. I said "what she thinks is best for her child".

Yes I snipped it to make the points I was making.

As for the second part....the question wasn't asked because I misunderstood you or snipped it incorrectly....it's very simple....

Is the mother at this point in time making decisions based on what is best for her child, or more for what is right for herself?

 

[SwampMama]

I respect your opinion. This is kind of how I look at it. Technology will continue to advance. If at some point, technology would ever advance, although highly unlikely, to the point where a person who suffers heart failure and some kind of artificial machine can be attached to continue the circulation of blood, would society want to keep there loved ones at home or in a facility, being somewhat preserved for an indefinite or endless amount of time? Would the deceased want that?

This is just delaying the decay and breakdown of other organs. IMO

If we could embalm or taxidermy someone and they would never decay, would some want to take them home and sit them in a corner chair? I really do think a lot of people would want to do this and I'm not joking.

Rosalia Lombardo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have you heard of the girl in the glass casket?

Rosalia Lombardo (December 13, 1918 in Palermo, Italy – December 6, 1920), was an Italian child who died of pneumonia. Rosalia's father, Official Mario Lombardo, was sorely grieved upon her death, so he approached Alfredo Salafia, a noted embalmer, to preserve her.

Salafia used a secret process to preserve the little girls body so that it look incredibly lifelike.She was placed in the catacombs in Sicily, in a glass casket so her father could see her as often as he wished.

Even though she died almost 100 years ago, she looks just like a little girl who is sleeping, or a doll. It is only in the past decade that she has begun to show a bit of age, after being viewed and photographed for almost 100 years.

 

[animlzrule]

I don't believe there is any credible debate about whether brain death = death. People can debate the moon landing and whether the earth is flat, but that doesn't give them any actual authority or legitimacy. We can't always get what we want, no matter how fantastical our personal rationales. I'd seriously question the credentials, ethics and legitimacy of any physician who would choose to support delusions and magical thinking rather than science. This attorney is being allowed to make a mockery of the process, acceptance and the inevitability of death and dying, as well as interfering with a medical facilitie's ability to provide medical care as the law dictates. I just can't understand WHY this is all being allowed????? I truly feel for this family and the trauma they've undergone. But this happens to families around the world every single day. Why all of the exceptions and special treatment for them? It does make me angry as a health care professional that one family is being allowed to essentially hold a facility and it's caregivers hostage due to their misguided beliefs and naiveté.

 

[Kaliste]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 5m
still talkng by order of court will be no major developments. We continue to clear obstacles hoped for extraction before the TRO expires

Huh? I honestly don't understand what he's saying here.

 

[Minette]

Christopher Dolan ‏@cbdlaw 5m
still talkng by order of court will be no major developments. We continue to clear obstacles hoped for extraction before the TRO expires

popsicle, you are spoiling us--with you on the job I never have to go looking for these updates myself! Thank you for all you do. :rose:

 

[Donjeta]

Unfortunately mischaracterizations of her condition have helped turn this tragedy into an insane legal fight, still playing out Friday, and a politically charged national debate.

We learned on Tuesday that the Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network has been working behind the scenes to help the family find a place to transfer the girl. "Jahi McMath has been labeled a 'deceased' person. Yet she retains all the functional attributes of a living person, despite her brain injury," the organization said.

Sadly, that's not true. We're not talking about someone in a coma. We're also not talking about Schiavo, the Florida woman in a persistent vegetative state who was the center of a seven-year fight over whether to keep her alive. Jahi's condition is much worse. Unlike Schiavo, in Jahi's case, there is no brain function.

Unfortunately, some news reporting contributes to the misunderstandings.

"Court blocks hospital from disconnecting Jahi McMath from life support," read a CNN website headline on Monday. While this newspaper thoughtfully explored the issue of brain death, it has also mischaracterized the legal fight as one of whether to maintain "life support." CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, NPR, Associated Press and the Washington Post did the same.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/dan...erizations-jahi-mcmaths-condition-have-helped

 

[momrids6]

Adam Katz ‏@geekeasy 2m
After huge media ordeal they made over #JahiMcMath, the family is now suing the hospital for violating their privacy. http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24840745/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter …

 

[Steft50]

Rosalia Lombardo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have you heard of the girl in the glass casket?

Rosalia Lombardo (December 13, 1918 in Palermo, Italy – December 6, 1920), was an Italian child who died of pneumonia. Rosalia's father, Official Mario Lombardo, was sorely grieved upon her death, so he approached Alfredo Salafia, a noted embalmer, to preserve her.

Salafia used a secret process to preserve the little girls body so that it look incredibly lifelike.She was placed in the catacombs in Sicily, in a glass casket so her father could see her as often as he wished.

Even though she died almost 100 years ago, she looks just like a little girl who is sleeping, or a doll. It is only in the past decade that she has begun to show a bit of age, after being viewed and photographed for almost 100 years.

Kinda cool, but way to creepy for me personally.

 

[animlzrule]

Adam Katz ‏@geekeasy 2m
After huge media ordeal they made over #JahiMcMath, the family is now suing the hospital for violating their privacy. http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24840745/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter …

I would say "unbelievable", but of course they're going to sue. Vindictive pettiness and desperation seems an odd way to go about honoring the memory of a child…...

 

[Zuri]

Adam Katz ‏@geekeasy 2m
After huge media ordeal they made over #JahiMcMath, the family is now suing the hospital for violating their privacy. http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24840745/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter …

What???????????

 

[popsicle]

Huh? I honestly don't understand what he's saying here.

right?

We continue to clear obstacles hoped for extraction before the TRO expires

WTF?

 

[QueenD]

Adam Katz ‏@geekeasy 2m
After huge media ordeal they made over #JahiMcMath, the family is now suing the hospital for violating their privacy. http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24840745/jahi-mcmath-mom-can-remove-brain-dead-daughter …

I think most people following this case knew this was coming. So sad, I wish this family would focus on this little girls life and give her the celebration she deserves.

 

[Steft50]

When it comes to my child, I could give two flips about the law.
I will always fight for what I think is the best for my child. That's what this mother is doing. In court.

She is doing what we all have the right to do. As parents and as citizens.

As parents we always do things for our kids that the law says we must, whether *we* think so or not. There are those that feel beating (not spanking) their child is the right way to raise their kids and what is best for them, but the law (rightfully) says it's not, it's abuse. There are laws about educating our children either in an accredited school or at home, there are laws about how many days that must be attended. A while back a friend of mine was outraged because their High School PTA invited in a speaker who turned out to be totally inappropriate to speak to high school kids (it was actually the kids who called him out). This guy sells a book for how to raise your children and if you did even a quarter of it, it would, by law, be abuse, whether you agreed or not.