Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

[*Lash*]

I agree that this could be what Ms. Rule is reading off of JS' phone records he could have very well made the call to RZ's phone. He could have left a voice mail. We will never know because LE waited too long to retrieve it. That fact alone should be enough to show an incompetent investigation. However, please see below:

Originally Posted by Carioca
Thank IP - now, according to AR's book, JS said he tried calling RZ at 11:48PM the night she died, but IIRC he said she didn't answer the phone. So wouldn't that 11:48PM call show up on her phone as a missed call from his number?

But since it doesn't appear on her smartphone bill, it doesn't prove one way or another if he indeed trying calling, correct? She didn't pick up, so no charge to bill. But his attempt to call would appear on his phone, even if he wasn't successful in completing the call... hung up before VC was actived? IOW, it's only his word that JS tried calling RZ at 11:48PM that night. Please correct me if wrong.

Also according to AR book, her phone was found in the hanging room with a dead battery. If the battery was dead. am wondering how that affects the alleged pivotal 12:40AM VM, the supposed motive for her self murder?

BBM: If RZ's phone was ON, it would have absolutely shown up as a missed call. It would have been for ONE MINUTE. Also BBM: There would have been a charge to RZ's bill...and his. UNLESS HER PHONE WAS OFF, then only on his. Every call you make with AT&T counts as ONE MINUTE. Perhaps that is how it's recorded, I don't know. I've spent much more time than I'd like to going over AT&T bills in minute detail to make sure the charges are correct. It also makes a difference if you are OUT OF YOUR HOME AREA (also if you have nationwide service). Which spells out the charges even more clearly.

My question here is why would her phone have been off, and only for those few hours between talking to her sister and the supposed voice mail from JS and after NR was trying to contact her? Only to be powered back up at 12:50 to check the voice mail? Does this make sense? Not to me, and here is why: RZ obviously (by her COMPLETE phone records we've seen) was attached to her phone, as most people are these days. The only way JS' call (EVEN IF SHE DIDN'T ANSWER) would have not shown up on her bill was if her phone was OFF. Why in the world would someone who depended on her phone and used it constantly turn her phone off during those very important hours?

To play devils advocate, if she had actually planned the suicide, she shut the phone off to make all of her elaborate arrangements, then before doing all of those things we know she must have done to commit suicide, she stops to check her cell phone. At 12:50 a.m. she powers her cell back up and hears the message?!?! This is where suicide excuse that "she killed herself because JS said MS wasn't going to make it" stops working. Any thoughts super sleuthers?

Excellent points!

Questions...If a cellphone is turned off, would a missed call display on the phone, just not on the bill? Maybe Rebecca's phone displayed the 11:48/12:30 call, but the bill did not.

I'm not certain how missed calls register on phone bills. I do know when my phone is powered off, I still receive emails, phone calls and text messages. Once powered on, I can see everything that occurred while my phone was powered off. The phone stores the data, but would this show differently on a bill?

Something else to think about, SDSO still has Rebecca's phone in custody.

 

[time]

Something else to think about, SDSO still has Rebecca's phone in custody.

Yeah, and the question is WHY????

 

[deca]

Maybe Rebecca wasn't the one who turned the phone back on and listened to the VM. Maybe it was the killer?

 

[Inparadise]

Maybe Rebecca wasn't the one who turned the phone back on and listened to the VM. Maybe it was the killer?

IMO, Rebecca was dead by midnight.

 

[K_Z]

Something else to think about, SDSO still has Rebecca's phone in custody.

Lol-- I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for that!

Oh-- let me try to answer this one, lol! Choose one, or more.

Hypothetically.......

1. "We are protecting Rebecca Zahau's privacy."

2. "Attorneys for Rebecca's family members have not filed the proper forms to receive Rebecca Zahau's property."

3. "We are not done analyzing it, even though the case is closed."

4. "The account for that phone has been closed. Why would anyone want it back? And unfortunately, the battery is dead. We are thoroughly investigating the dead battery issue."

5. "There is a backlog in the evidence processing department."

6. "We have a lot of cell phones at the moment. Whose cell phone are you talking about?"

7. "Rebecca Zahau is an unfortunate suicide victim. We have no indications of homicide in her death." (Repeat often.)

8. "We can't find it at the moment."

9. "We can assure you that Rebecca Zahau's cell phone is secure in our evidence facility."

10. "We're short staffed, and the holiday rush is upon us. We will get to it as soon as we can."

11. "It is our policy to return all personal property to the owners or their representatives, upon completion of our investigation." (Repeat this often.)

12. "Rebecca Zahau has not requested her property to be returned."


:floorlaugh:

 

[justice be served]

Lol-- I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for that!

Oh-- let me try to answer this one, lol! Choose one, or more.

Hypothetically.......

1. "We are protecting Rebecca Zahau's privacy."

2. "Attorneys for Rebecca's family members have not filed the proper forms to receive Rebecca Zahau's property."

3. "We are not done analyzing it, even though the case is closed."

4. "The account for that phone has been closed. Why would anyone want it back? And unfortunately, the battery is dead. We are thoroughly investigating the dead battery issue."

5. "There is a backlog in the evidence processing department."

6. "We have a lot of cell phones at the moment. Whose cell phone are you talking about?"

7. "Rebecca Zahau is an unfortunate suicide victim. We have no indications of homicide in her death." (Repeat often.)

8. "We can't find it at the moment."

9. "We can assure you that Rebecca Zahau's cell phone is secure in our evidence facility."

10. "We're short staffed, and the holiday rush is upon us. We will get to it as soon as we can."

11. "It is our policy to return all personal property to the owners or their representatives, upon completion of our investigation." (Repeat this often.)

12. "Rebecca Zahau has not requested her property to be returned."


:floorlaugh:

And if I may add my all time favorite: We can't justify spending the resources on locating it as we have major budget constraints.

 

[time]

IMO, Rebecca was dead by midnight.

I think it was K_Z who had a convincing argument that Rebecca may have been murdered around 3 AM. I'm wondering if Rebeccca could have been disabled by midnight but not dead until 3 am. I had always kind of entertained the theory she was at least attacked by 11 PM - midnight.

In addition to dead batteries, remember we also have this

3:00 AM – Activity on home computer.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

Is it just too odd that the activity on the computer is at the same time she alledgedly hung herself?

I had one more weird thought. If Adam was in anyway involved, wouldn't you think he'd wait as long as possible to "discover" her body instead of pretty darn early in the morning?

***
inthedark ... I agree, it makes no sense that Rebecca checked her message so late, deleted it and then planned her suicide ... let alone the battery stuff. then again, something is off here because the darn phone seems to be MIA even.

 

[Inparadise]

I think it was K_Z who had a convincing argument that Rebecca may have been murdered around 3 AM. I'm wondering if Rebeccca could have been disabled by midnight but not dead until 3 am. I had always kind of entertained the theory she was at least attacked by 11 PM - midnight.

In addition to dead batteries, remember we also have this

3:00 AM – Activity on home computer.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

Is it just too odd that the activity on the computer is at the same time she alledgedly hung herself?

I had one more weird thought. If Adam was in anyway involved, wouldn't you think he'd wait as long as possible to "discover" her body instead of pretty darn early in the morning?

***
inthedark ... I agree, it makes no sense that Rebecca checked her message so late, deleted it and then panned her suicide ... let alone the battery stuff.

The reason for "finding" her body so early in the am would be to make sure that Rebecca's body was exposed to the hot sun for as long as possible perhaps to interfere with possible evidence, and to create a media circus.

 

[time]

The reason for "finding" her body so early in the am would be to make sure that Rebecca's body was exposed to the hot sun for as long as possible perhaps to interfere with possible evidence, and to create a media circus.

Hmmm... I don't think anyone would would expect or rely on that to happen. Other than Adam, the murderer couldn't have delayed finding her body.

 

[Inparadise]

Hmmm... I don't think anyone would would expect or rely on that to happen. Other than Adam, the murderer couldn't have delayed finding her body.

I don't think that Adam could have slept in till 10 or 11 am because his body would have still been on Central time, 2 hours ahead........it just would have appeared strange for him to sleep in that late. And I wonder why he had to take Ambien......that is if he really did.

 

[inthedark14]

Yeah, and the question is WHY????

time, ITA. What in the world could they need her cell phone for (and I think they still have her computer--Lash?)

Their own agency declared it a suicide, after a push from her family and their attorney, they gave over "all the records" and then threatened said attorney that they would release the records if they didn't toe the line. What the heck is that about. SDSO deemed RZ's death a suicide. Therefore, case closed. There should be no reason that any record, evidence, notes, whatever should not have been released back to the family. Especially personal effects like the phone and the computer. I wonder, would the phone even work and show the history after all this time? If SDSO grew a conscious and returned Becky's property to her family would they even find it in the same state it was in? I wonder if they've had any floods or fires in their evidence storage. Maybe some bad air conditioning? This is another huge problem. Another small piece of this messy puzzle that makes no sense. Why in the world would they hold these two items? Is it possible that RZ didn't own these items and that they were returned to JS? I don't know how that works, it's not as if she was his employee and she was returning her work items to her former job. I don't know, really, how that works. When my ex and I separated, the phone bill was in my name, he kept his phone, I kept mine, I paid the contract until it was over and then had his line disconnected. I never saw the phone again. Who actually owns it?

 

[inthedark14]

Excellent points!

Questions...If a cellphone is turned off, would a missed call display on the phone, just not on the bill? Maybe Rebecca's phone displayed the 11:48/12:30 call, but the bill did not.

I'm not certain how missed calls register on phone bills. I do know when my phone is powered off, I still receive emails, phone calls and text messages. Once powered on, I can see everything that occurred while my phone was powered off. The phone stores the data, but would this show differently on a bill?

Something else to think about, SDSO still has Rebecca's phone in custody.

Hi Lash!

In my own experience, if I let my phone run out of battery, or if it is turned off, I don't see the calls I missed. I see the voice mail or text icon. The time I see on the phone display is the time when I powered up the phone. However, when you actually check the voice mail, it gives the time it was left. IE "Eleven Forty Eight PM from --XXXX press one to listen to your message". As for showing up on the bill, I'm not 100% on this, but I don't think you get charged for when the VM is received, but when you check your VM. I wish we had a tele techie person who could tell us more.

Always MOO

 

[deca]

Do we know if RZ had passwords to "open" the phone and computer? Not that she couldn't have told someone...or someone close to her could have told someone else...but I am just curious, I guess.

 

[Carioca]

Do we know if RZ had passwords to "open" the phone and computer? Not that she couldn't have told someone...or someone close to her could have told someone else...but I am just curious, I guess.

Very good point, deca. I would think most people have their computers password protected and would share the password with a partner or a trusted family member in the event something were to happen to them. I certainly do. In RZ's case I would think JS would have known...

 

[minazoe]

ok, so I love Anne and of course I read the book immediately, I'm sorry guys that I havent been hanging out that much on this case because I have been nustso on the LISK. case.

but, I am extremely interested in RZ's muddy feet. It's very curious her feet are caked in mud. Where is the mud from her feet thru out the house?

the only reason I could see them declaring this a suicide is if they discovered extensive bondage equipment including ropes in the bedroom...and they hushed it.

why would her feet be caked with mud? did she try to escape her killer running thru a muddy area on the grounds? or was her body dragged thru the mud and carried thru the house?

she didint stuff a t shirt down her own throat for chrissakes,

 

[Inparadise]

Very good point, deca. I would think most people have their computers password protected and would share the password with a partner or a trusted family member in the event something were to happen to them. I certainly do. In RZ's case I would think JS would have known...

When I call my VM, it doesn't usually ask for a password......in fact, I think only if I am calling from another phone is a password requested.

 

[bourne]

"Zahau's sister, Mary Zahau-Loehner, said detectives told her that Jonah Shacknai left the voicemail on Rebecca's phone around 12:30 a.m. on the morning of her death. "

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15485069/records-reveal-final-cell-phone-calls-to-rebecca-zahau

Ok, now I am thinking that Jonah originally may have told LE about 12:30, but he was off when phone records were checked? I guess there are some other possibilities we could entertain, like the detective was just in error, or ....?

Does anyone have a more direct source or a different one on the 12:30 time?

I think it's likely that when LE was interviewing Jonah, LE said there was a voicemail retrieval from Becky's phone at 12:30am Wed, and Jonah responded that oh, that must be to listen to the message I left about that time. So then LE translated that to mean that Jonah called Becky at 12:30pm and gave that unclear info at press conference -- instead of clarifying that the VM was retrieved at 12:30am Wed but that Jonah called and left his message to Becky's phone at an earlier time of 11:38pm Tues.

 

[bourne]

I agree that this could be what Ms. Rule is reading off of JS' phone records he could have very well made the call to RZ's phone. He could have left a voice mail. We will never know because LE waited too long to retrieve it. That fact alone should be enough to show an incompetent investigation. However, please see below:

Originally Posted by Carioca
Thank IP - now, according to AR's book, JS said he tried calling RZ at 11:48PM the night she died, but IIRC he said she didn't answer the phone. So wouldn't that 11:48PM call show up on her phone as a missed call from his number?

But since it doesn't appear on her smartphone bill, it doesn't prove one way or another if he indeed trying calling, correct? She didn't pick up, so no charge to bill. But his attempt to call would appear on his phone, even if he wasn't successful in completing the call... hung up before VC was actived? IOW, it's only his word that JS tried calling RZ at 11:48PM that night. Please correct me if wrong.

Also according to AR book, her phone was found in the hanging room with a dead battery. If the battery was dead. am wondering how that affects the alleged pivotal 12:40AM VM, the supposed motive for her self murder?

BBM: If RZ's phone was ON, it would have absolutely shown up as a missed call. It would have been for ONE MINUTE. Also BBM: There would have been a charge to RZ's bill...and his. UNLESS HER PHONE WAS OFF, then only on his. Every call you make with AT&T counts as ONE MINUTE. Perhaps that is how it's recorded, I don't know. I've spent much more time than I'd like to going over AT&T bills in minute detail to make sure the charges are correct. It also makes a difference if you are OUT OF YOUR HOME AREA (also if you have nationwide service). Which spells out the charges even more clearly.

My question here is why would her phone have been off, and only for those few hours between talking to her sister and the supposed voice mail from JS and after NR was trying to contact her? Only to be powered back up at 12:50 to check the voice mail? Does this make sense? Not to me, and here is why: RZ obviously (by her COMPLETE phone records we've seen) was attached to her phone, as most people are these days. The only way JS' call (EVEN IF SHE DIDN'T ANSWER) would have not shown up on her bill was if her phone was OFF. Why in the world would someone who depended on her phone and used it constantly turn her phone off during those very important hours?

To play devils advocate, if she had actually planned the suicide, she shut the phone off to make all of her elaborate arrangements, then before doing all of those things we know she must have done to commit suicide, she stops to check her cell phone. At 12:50 a.m. she powers her cell back up and hears the message?!?! This is where suicide excuse that "she killed herself because JS said MS wasn't going to make it" stops working. Any thoughts super sleuthers?

I don't want to add to the confusion but I know that when I sometimes call my friends and there is poor reception on their end (e.g., they turned off their power to recharge phone, or their phone is low battery, or just the cell tower signals were nonexistent or poor at a certain location, etc), the time on my phone is the exact time I called them.

But on their phones, the time of my call to them does not register until their phones are powered up or their batteries are recharged, or they moved to another location where there are plenty of cell towers, and the time of my call on their phones would be listed as the time they actually picked up their phones to retrieve my voicemail -- which would be a LATER TIME than my actual time of call.

So it could be that Jonah did call Becky and left VM at 11:38PM Tues but Becky's phone was turned off for whatever reason, and then someone retrieved VM from Becky's phone at 12:50AM Wed and deleted Jonah's VM. I think there would be no reason for Jonah's phone call to Becky to be indicated on Becky's phone records then because they never actually connected. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think when someone leaves a VM, their call to you is given on your records only as the time you retrieved the VM. But if they called you and you picked up and answered your phone, the time you answered would be recorded as the time they called you -- which is generally about the same time they actually called you. Wow, does that make sense? lol

 

[bourne]

When I call my VM, it doesn't usually ask for a password......in fact, I think only if I am calling from another phone is a password requested.

That is strange. What kind of phone do you have? I used to have the same phone as Becky. Samsung. I had to use a password to retrieve my VM from my own cellphone, as well as any other phones I use to retrieve my VM.

Now I have an Iphone and I still need a password to retrieve VMs from my own Iphone and other phones.

 

[bourne]

The only reason I could think of why someone other than Becky would delete Jonah's VM is that this person is Becky's murderer and was p.o. that Jonah was calling Becky and showing attention to Becky at the late hour, and even inform Becky about the status of the son the murderer and Jonah shared together.

The murderer of Becky likely felt, what audacity this Jonah has to stand up for Becky at the hospital, claiming Becky gave CPR to Max and "saved" Max, and now has the nerve to call Becky at the late hour to give Becky info on her beloved Max to whom Becky's murderer had already decided was a child-killer. So Becky's murderer in a jealous fit of rage and anger, deletes Jonah's VM on Becky's phone.

This would lead nicely to the motivation behind the painted message on the door as well. "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER". Murderer of Becky preplanned the paint job on door in order to get vengeance on both Becky and Jonah. (Slap both birds with one paint job, sort to speak).

What would cinch it for me that it is Becky's murderer who deleted Jonah's VM on Becky's phone is to know whether all of the VMs on Becky's phone were deleted, or just the single Jonah VM. If only Jonah's VM to Becky was deleted, then it had to be Becky's murderer because why would Becky choose to only delete one VM when she can erase all VMs of the day as she did on prior days? (My assumption is that Becky, like most of us, deletes all VM at the end of the day to empty out her cache to accept new VM). Only Becky's murderer would choose to pick out Jonah's VM to delete because of her personal grudge against both Becky and Jonah.