Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

[minazoe]

Still I just don't feel this is a crime committed by a woman. Too much strength is involved...Dina is chubby and probably not fit enough to hurl anyone off a balcony. .. So much easier just to shoot her and put a gun in her hand or something.


This was so sexual.

But the message ...does sound like a woman


How about if we add a question mark.

She saved him?

Can you save her?


Did Max's father try to defend her by telling Dina that she was the one who saved Max and kept him alive for the ambulance....?

Did he ever say this to anyone after the accident?...

 

[Serpico]

Still I just don't feel this is a crime committed by a woman. Too much strength is involved...Dina is chubby and probably not fit enough to hurl anyone off a balcony. .. So much easier just to shoot her and put a gun in her hand or something.


This was so sexual.

But the message ...does sound like a woman


How about if we add a question mark.

She saved him?

Can you save her?


Did Max's father try to defend her by telling Dina that she was the one who saved Max and kept him alive for the ambulance....?

Did he ever say this to anyone after the accident?...

=============================================
I believe it's safe to say JS did say that to Dina after NINA claimed that RZ told her Monday night in the car she performed CPR. Rescue breaths/CPR ...regardless, the Romano sisters were FULLY AWARE after reading the EMT Report that CPD Officer Erhard arrived 2 minutes after 911 call and 6 or so minutes BEFORE paramedics arrived and didn't perform CPR yet neither of those women said a "peep" about Officer Erhard's inaction.

 

[minazoe]

So ultimately she didn't
Save max....and no one saved her...no one would, there would be no time.

I wonder if the publicity of Max's accident could have brought an unknown avenger into the home.

 

[Carioca]

So ultimately she didn't
Save max....and no one saved her...no one would, there would be no time.

I wonder if the publicity of Max's accident could have brought an unknown avenger into the home.

BBM Hi minazoe - there wasn't any publicity on Max's accident the day it happened nor the next day. It only became public once Rebecca's nude bound and gagged hanging death hit the news the following day. I seriously doubt there would have been any news coverage on Max other than to report the very tragic accidental death of the CEO of a pharmaceutical company if Rebecca had still been alive.

 

[Nom de plume]

Although I do not believe she acted alone, I do think the "message" sounds like something a bitter ex wife, and scared mother would say. It drips of sarcasm. When I see "she saved him can you save her" I hear "Yeah...sure she saved him you @#^*!!! Now can you save her any better than she "saved" him? Ha! Good luck with that one a**hole!!"

IMO, there's no one else on the face of this earth that would write that exact message. I don't see any possibility that she's not guilty of the murder, the cold blooded, sick, sensational, humiliating murder of RZ. But I can't let AS off the hook either. If it walks like a duck.....well you know the rest. He's involved somehow.

I would guess that he happened upon the scene, probably after hearing the scream for help. That witch has some dirt on him, which she threatened to spill if he didn't help her. AS strikes me as the "loser" in the family. Not that that is my personal opinion, but I would guess that his parents, and probably JS himself, never let AS forget how successful JS is compared to AS. AS's standard of living sure has improved in the last two years. Hhmmm......? I would also guess that AS is more afraid of JS than he is of LE, so I think whatever she had on him was/is something that would turn JS against him forever.

At the same time, I also think she has some dirt on JS too. Why else would he keep quiet if he thought, and how could he not, that she killed RZ? The only reason I can see is that both DRS and AS were involved, or she has some really, really ugly dirt on him too.

If I even suspected that my bitter, vengeful ex killed my new SO, I would be camped out at the LE office. Yet not a word from JS. He seems to accept the suicide finding by SDSO without question.

IMO, something is rotten in the state of Denmark, and it involves those three people. Also IMO, there's far, far more to the back story than any of us know.

 

[Serpico]

Although I do not believe she acted alone, I do think the "message" sounds like something a bitter ex wife, and scared mother would say. It drips of sarcasm. When I see "she saved him can you save her" I hear "Yeah...sure she saved him you @#^*!!! Now can you save her any better than she "saved" him? Ha! Good luck with that one a**hole!!"

IMO, there's no one else on the face of this earth that would write that exact message. I don't see any possibility that she's not guilty of the murder, the cold blooded, sick, sensational, humiliating murder of RZ. But I can't let AS off the hook either. If it walks like a duck.....well you know the rest. He's involved somehow.

I would guess that he happened upon the scene, probably after hearing the scream for help. That witch has some dirt on him, which she threatened to spill if he didn't help her. AS strikes me as the "loser" in the family. Not that that is my personal opinion, but I would guess that his parents, and probably JS himself, never let AS forget how successful JS is compared to AS. AS's standard of living sure has improved in the last two years. Hhmmm......? I would also guess that AS is more afraid of JS than he is of LE, so I think whatever she had on him was/is something that would turn JS against him forever.

At the same time, I also think she has some dirt on JS too. Why else would he keep quiet if he thought, and how could he not, that she killed RZ? The only reason I can see is that both DRS and AS were involved, or she has some really, really ugly dirt on him too.

If I even suspected that my bitter, vengeful ex killed my new SO, I would be camped out at the LE office. Yet not a word from JS. He seems to accept the suicide finding by SDSO without question.

IMO, something is rotten in the state of Denmark, and it involves those three people. Also IMO, there's far, far more to the back story than any of us know.

================================================JJonah's silence could be traced to Adam's involvement.....Adam protection over Rebecca's reputation/truth.

Jonah withheld information too which is a potential legal issue which he would be fully aware:
a).the true nature of why he gave his car keys to a Romano sister Tuesday night around 9:00pm
b).the "grave" news about Max is still unconfirmed by Rady hospital doctor/nurse/hospital chart between 8-11:30pm Tuesday night.
c).the actual contents of his telephone message at 11:38pm Tuesday night and WHY they would be erased 72 minutes later.
d).why he just didn't wait to tell RZ the news the next morning given RZ was scheduled to meet him with a fresh set of clothes and some breakfast.
e).why he hasn't volunteered the specific airport departure time of his 2 kids Monday from Lindbergh Airport.
f).why he hasn't provided more details about the red/orange towing rope.
g).why he hasn't commented about the door message or make a DEFINITIVE statement that RZ did not author the message.....if he did that then Thompson/Gore would be upset because that would suggest another person inside the mansion that night.
h).why he chose to CALL RZ at such a late hour (11:38pm) Tuesday night rather TEXT her first...for example...hey Becky - are you still up? No answer - no need to call.
I).he indicated that the backdoor was unlocked for the kids to come and go during the DAY but he never mentioned the backdoor rule at NIGHT.
J).he never blasted SDSO for allowing his girlfriend's body to lay nude on his courtyard grass for 10 hours plus......
I).he hired the most influential and SD "connected" defense attorney Paul Pfingst hours after RZ body was discovered and days later a big Los Angeles PR Firm to protect his reputation yet he NEVER hired his own private investigators even though he KNEW she didn't commit suicide.

 

[bourne]

================================================JJonah's silence could be traced to Adam's involvement.....Adam protection over Rebecca's reputation/truth.

Jonah withheld information too which is a potential legal issue which he would be fully aware:
a).the true nature of why he gave his car keys to a Romano sister Tuesday night around 9:00pm
b).the "grave" news about Max is still unconfirmed by Rady hospital doctor/nurse/hospital chart between 8-11:30pm Tuesday night.
c).the actual contents of his telephone message at 11:38pm Tuesday night and WHY they would be erased 72 minutes later.
d).why he just didn't wait to tell RZ the news the next morning given RZ was scheduled to meet him with a fresh set of clothes and some breakfast.
e).why he hasn't volunteered the specific airport departure time of his 2 kids Monday from Lindbergh Airport.
f).why he hasn't provided more details about the red/orange towing rope.
g).why he hasn't commented about the door message or make a DEFINITIVE statement that RZ did not author the message.....if he did that then Thompson/Gore would be upset because that would suggest another person inside the mansion that night.
h).why he chose to CALL RZ at such a late hour (11:38pm) Tuesday night rather TEXT her first...for example...hey Becky - are you still up? No answer - no need to call.
I).he indicated that the backdoor was unlocked for the kids to come and go during the DAY but he never mentioned the backdoor rule at NIGHT.
J).he never blasted SDSO for allowing his girlfriend's body to lay nude on his courtyard grass for 10 hours plus......
I).he hired the most influential and SD "connected" defense attorney Paul Pfingst hours after RZ body was discovered and days later a big Los Angeles PR Firm to protect his reputation yet he NEVER hired his own private investigators even though he KNEW she didn't commit suicide.

You've made some good points here. I agree with almost everything.

BBM I think this depends on what Jonah usual calling pattern was to RZ. Did he always call her at late hours or did he typically text her when it was late?

It would be strange, for example, *IF* he had telephoned her at 11:35pm the day she was murdered but in prior days he had always only texted at late hours (and appeared more considerate of the late time factor of waking Rebecca or disturbing her in the middle of the night) because why did he suddenly break pattern? Also, it would be strange if he telephoned instead of texting when he had NOT received anything urgent that he needed to VOICE directly to her. Of course, it could be something innocent like Jonah had wanted to hear Rebecca, the woman he loved's voice before HE himself went off to sleep. Maybe he just wanted to hear someone soothing like Rebecca instead of facing Dina or other negative people...particularly during this stressful time.

What I find interesting is his statement to police that he had left a voicemail about Max's "imminent death condition" at so late an hour -- especially if there were no signs from the doctors that Max's condition had changed that drastically on late Tues evening near midnight. It seems irregular that he would have called Rebecca to inform her to this supposed "changed" medical condition of Max when in fact there might not have been any medical confirmation from doctors of Max's altered condition.

It really would be helpful to get a hold of Max's medical records to clarify this sudden "imminent death" condition of Max that Tues night.

Re: I. When did Jonah indicate he left the backdoor open during the day for kids?

 

[Serpico]

You've made some good points here. I agree with almost everything.

BBM I think this depends on what Jonah usual calling pattern was to RZ. Did he always call her at late hours or did he typically text her when it was late?

It would be strange, for example, *IF* he had telephoned her at 11:35pm the day she was murdered but in prior days he had always only texted at late hours (and appeared more considerate of the late time factor of waking Rebecca or disturbing her in the middle of the night) because why did he suddenly break pattern? Also, it would be strange if he telephoned instead of texting when he had NOT received anything urgent that he needed to VOICE directly to her. Of course, it could be something innocent like Jonah had wanted to hear Rebecca, the woman he loved's voice before HE himself went off to sleep. Maybe he just wanted to hear someone soothing like Rebecca instead of facing Dina or other negative people...particularly during this stressful time.

What I find interesting is his statement to police that he had left a voicemail about Max's "imminent death condition" at so late an hour -- especially if there were no signs from the doctors that Max's condition had changed that drastically on late Tues evening near midnight. It seems irregular that he would have called Rebecca to inform her to this supposed "changed" medical condition of Max when in fact there might not have been any medical confirmation from doctors of Max's altered condition.

It really would be helpful to get a hold of Max's medical records to clarify this sudden "imminent death" condition of Max that Tues night.

Re: I. When did Jonah indicate he left the backdoor open during the day for kids?

==========================================
The backdoor open for kids = thought that was a "given"....near beach - kids visiting - everyone in and out throughout the day - backdoor was the designated
entrance/exit to the mansion. I doubt he had such a policy during the day at his residence in AZ so Coronado summer home was different.

I'm not totally sold that this backdoor policy (being open) extended throughout the night (once the kids were in) given how many SPD alarm responses the last 16 months at 1043 Ocean Blvd.

Here are some questions I'd ask Jonah with regards to the backdoor on Tuesday night.

Question: I understand the backdoor was usually OPEN during the day while you stayed for the summer at Spreckels. How about at night with regards to the backdoor.....open or locked?
Question: When Max was enroute to Coronado Hospital both Xena and Rebecca were in a CPD car to get Xena's bloody leg stitched up. Were you aware the CPD officer has stated that he overheard Rebecca say to Xena that Monday morning in the car,"Dina's going to kill me."
Question: Did Rebecca ever stay overnight ALONE at the mansion prior to that Tuesday night?
Question: How well did Rebecca know your brother Adam? Adam indicated he didn't know Rebecca that well and didn't even know her last name. {Ann Rule's book page 186}.
Question: So Jonah, when Rebecca said goodnight to Adam at 8;00pm while Adam was headed to the guest house and Rebecca to the backdoor....did Rebecca LOCK the backdoor? If not, then who was she expecting? If so, then how did Adam get inside the next morning to grab the knife from the kitchen?
Question: One last question Jonah regarding the backdoor. When you gave NINA your car keys around 9;00pm Tuesday night.....were your Spreckels house keys on that key chain as well?

 

[*Lash*]

I find it strange that anyone living in Coronado in 2011 would leave their doors unlocked considering there was a rash of burglaries. CPD even released a statement to Coronado residents in Septemer 2011 advising it was imperative for residents to lock their doors and windows day and night, even when you're at home. CPD advised all residents to be on high alert due to the criminal activity on the island. Since this was happening during the time Jonah was on the island for the summer, I find it highly unlikely he was not aware of the criminal activity.

http://www.ecoronado.com/profiles/b...s-id-and-silverware-thefts?xg_source=activity

http://www.ecoronado.com/profiles/blogs/balboa-ave-target-of-criminal-activity

 

[bourne]

I find it strange that anyone living in Coronado in 2011 would leave their doors unlocked considering there was a rash of burglaries. CPD even released a statement to Coronado residents in Septemer 2011 advising it was imperative for residents to lock their doors and windows day and night, even when you're at home. CPD advised all residents to be on high alert due to the criminal activity on the island. Since this was happening during the time Jonah was on the island for the summer, I find it highly unlikely he was not aware of the criminal activity.

http://www.ecoronado.com/profiles/b...s-id-and-silverware-thefts?xg_source=activity

http://www.ecoronado.com/profiles/blogs/balboa-ave-target-of-criminal-activity

Unfortunately these pressers were released AFTER Rebecca's murder in Sept. 2011. Rebecca was murdered in July 2011.

Nonetheless I agree that given that I read somewhere there were police reports made by Jonah that his home had been burglarized and he was having stalker problems with Dina, and that that was why he had set up the ADT system in the first place, I don't understand why the ADT system was turned off the night Rebecca was killed and why anyone in the Spreckels mansion would leave the backdoor unlocked knowing the heightened potential for crimes.

The only place I recall reading that the backdoor of the Spreckels mansion was left unlocked was in Ann Rule's book though. I don't think anyone in their right mind would leave a backdoor unlocked at night especially in an unsafe neighborhood wherein crimes had occurred AT the Spreckels mansion -- unless they had 24-7 security guards. And we know Jonah/Dina was too cheap to even have a maid or nanny for his kids, and Jonah hired no guards for his homes.

I also don't believe it is a GIVEN that because you live near a beach that automatically means you keep your backdoors unlocked for the kids. Most families I know who have beachfront properties do NOT leave their doors unlocked for their kids to run in and out unless they have people like housesitters/guards keeping watch of their homes.

 

[Carioca]

Unfortunately these pressers were released AFTER Rebecca's murder in Sept. 2011. Rebecca was murdered in July 2011.

Nonetheless I agree that given that I read somewhere there were police reports made by Jonah that his home had been burglarized and he was having stalker problems with Dina, and that that was why he had set up the ADT system in the first place, I don't understand why the ADT system was turned off the night Rebecca was killed and why anyone in the Spreckels mansion would leave the backdoor unlocked knowing the heightened potential for crimes.

The only place I recall reading that the backdoor of the Spreckels mansion was left unlocked was in Ann Rule's book though. I don't think anyone in their right mind would leave a backdoor unlocked at night especially in an unsafe neighborhood wherein crimes had occurred AT the Spreckels mansion -- unless they had 24-7 security guards. And we know Jonah/Dina was too cheap to even have a maid or nanny for his kids, and Jonah hired no guards for his homes.

I also don't believe it is a GIVEN that because you live near a beach that automatically means you keep your backdoors unlocked for the kids. Most families I know who have beachfront properties do NOT leave their doors unlocked for their kids to run in and out unless they have people like housesitters/guards keeping watch of their homes.

Hi bourne - I have no recollection of any statements from Jonah about Dina stalking nor that was the reason he had contracted ADT security services. Do you remember where you read that? TIA

The ADT not working probably the only night Rebecca was going to be staying at Spreckels alone (with a vengeful ex-wife and sister on the loose and a whacky brother in the guest house) has always been a bone of contention in this case. And IMO the fact that ADT never made a statement regarding their services, or lack of, that night smacks of lack of professionalism on their part. Bad business, bad marketing, bad customer service IMO. And it's a given that Gore simply took Jonah's word rather than contact ADT to verify when, if ever, the security WAS working. From personal experience, when I cancelled our ADT (yes, due to this case) and changed to a different company, ADT came to the house and removed their signs from our yard.. So why was their sign still firmly planted by Spreckels front door on July 13, 2011...

 

[bourne]

Hi bourne - I have no recollection of any statements from Jonah about Dina stalking nor that was the reason he had contracted ADT security services. Do you remember where you read that? TIA

The ADT not working probably the only night Rebecca was going to be staying at Spreckels alone (with a vengeful ex-wife and sister on the loose and a whacky brother in the guest house) has always been a bone of contention in this case. And IMO the fact that ADT never made a statement regarding their services, or lack of, that night smacks of lack of professionalism on their part. Bad business, bad marketing, bad customer service IMO. And it's a given that Gore simply took Jonah's word rather than contact ADT to verify when, if ever, the security WAS working. From personal experience, when I cancelled our ADT (yes, due to this case) and changed to a different company, ADT came to the house and removed their signs from our yard.. So why was their sign still firmly planted by Spreckels front door on July 13, 2011...

I think an insider told me. So you can choose to disregard it or chalk it up to unverified rumor

Rebecca's death was made known only on July 13, 2011 and we don't know that Jonah terminated his contract with ADT that day so I don't see why ADT would take down the sign on that day. But I agree that an investigation should have been done on why the ADT system wasn't on July 12, 2011 when Rebecca was murdered.

 

[Serpico]

Unfortunately these pressers were released AFTER Rebecca's murder in Sept. 2011. Rebecca was murdered in July 2011.

Nonetheless I agree that given that I read somewhere there were police reports made by Jonah that his home had been burglarized and he was having stalker problems with Dina, and that that was why he had set up the ADT system in the first place, I don't understand why the ADT system was turned off the night Rebecca was killed and why anyone in the Spreckels mansion would leave the backdoor unlocked knowing the heightened potential for crimes.

The only place I recall reading that the backdoor of the Spreckels mansion was left unlocked was in Ann Rule's book though. I don't think anyone in their right mind would leave a backdoor unlocked at night especially in an unsafe neighborhood wherein crimes had occurred AT the Spreckels mansion -- unless they had 24-7 security guards. And we know Jonah/Dina was too cheap to even have a maid or nanny for his kids, and Jonah hired no guards for his homes.

I also don't believe it is a GIVEN that because you live near a beach that automatically means you keep your backdoors unlocked for the kids. Most families I know who have beachfront properties do NOT leave their doors unlocked for their kids to run in and out unless they have people like housesitters/guards keeping watch of their homes.

=============================================
Regardless what you or what you think others should do with their backdoor locks isn't the issue.....it's what Jonah allowed and designated at his summer home on Ocean Blvd. for his kids. The backdoor was UNLOCKED with Jonah's approval or direction.

 

[bourne]

=============================================
Regardless what you or what you think others should do with their backdoor locks isn't the issue.....it's what Jonah allowed and designated at his summer home on Ocean Blvd. for his kids. The backdoor was UNLOCKED with Jonah's approval or direction.

Touché! However, I was responding to your statement that unlocked doors of houses on beaches are a "given" which implied that this is true for all houses on beaches.

The backdoor open for kids = thought that was a "given"....near beach - kids visiting - everyone in and out throughout the day - backdoor was the designated
entrance/exit to the mansion.

 

[Serpico]

Touché! However, I was responding to your statement that unlocked doors of houses on beaches are a "given" which implied that this is true for all houses on beaches.

===========================================
My mistake. I didn't articulate it well enough....only thinking of JS family.

This backdoor LOCK or UNLOCKED aspect of case....intrigues me. We know Adam went into the house early Wed. morning to get the knife to supposedly cut RZ down but what we don't know.....if the backdoor was unlocked because RZ left it unlocked or someone with keys unlocked it.

 

[Cherry]

wow I cannot believe anyone would think riding their bike in a bikini in a beach community would be an exhibihitionist! I'm going to attack the exact post not the poster. People ride their bikes in bikini's all the time. It is in NO WAY an example of "exhibitionism" in the least.

 

[K_Z]

wow I cannot believe anyone would think riding their bike in a bikini in a beach community would be an exhibihitionist! I'm going to attack the exact post not the poster. People ride their bikes in bikini's all the time. It is in NO WAY an example of "exhibitionism" in the least.

I agree, Cherry. The term "exhibitionist" is really used in a derogatory fashion in that post when discussing a correlation between beach community bicycle riding in a swimsuit, with a gruesome nude hanging death.

I wonder why "every" thing Rebecca is described as doing has some negative or nefarious connotation by those who believe she committed suicide?

For example, Rebecca wasn't simply riding her bicycle in a swimsuit in a beach community. She is accused of being an "exhibitionist" in that post for doing so! (Not Ann Rule's words or intent-- AR went to great lengths to positively describe Rebecca's fitness and beauty, not make derogatory comments.) "Exhibitionist" in that post, IMO, sounds a lot like a jealous comment another woman would make when it is used to describe someone as physically fit and beautiful as Rebecca was. (Should everyone on a beach in a swimsuit be considered an exhibitionist?? Whether or not they look good in a swimsuit?)

I can think of other ways to describe this "bicycle- riding- in- a- bikini" activity that aren't so derogatory. Perhaps Rebecca was proud of her physical fitness? Was confident in her curves?

Exhibitionism is an INAPPROPRIATE display of intimate body parts, intended to provoke a response from onlookers. A beach community is an appropriate place for swimsuits! It's not like Rebecca is accused of wearing the bikini in an inappropriate environment, like a corporate board meeting or something. It's a BEACH community! Sheesh!

Ann Rule described Rebecca's body confidence and beauty in the passage about the bicycle riding in a bikini. The post that references that twists that into a negative-- "exhibitionism". It's just ANOTHER bashing attack of a woman dead in her grave for 2 years. The few posters who continue to viciously attack Rebecca IMO gleefully grasp any aspect of her life that they can then twist into a negative characteristic with which to continue bashing her. Even her eyeshadow has been mocked for months on end elsewhere!

I'm sure the way Rebecca brushed her teeth indicates just exactly how evil and exhibitionist she was, too, right? Brushing her teeth with contempt? <-----------Sarcasm

 

[K_Z]

http://www.indiegogo/projects/justice4rebecca

From May 08 - August 06, 2013, the crowdfundraiser brought in $5438 given by 56 donors and far short of the $535,000 goal projected to fund the Zahau's lawsuit. That is not indicative of an abundance of people who believe RZ's death was anything other than a suicide.

imo & mmo

BBM, and snipped for relevance.

This is a really great example of a factual statement, followed by a logical fallacy, or a fallacy of presumption. The conclusion "that is not indicative of an abundance of people who believe RZ's death was anything other than a suicide" is not at all supported by the ABSENCE of donors.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy"]Fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The FACTUAL statement, "$5438 given by 56 donors" is just that-- a factual statement. One can only infer that the 56 donors who DID contribute in some way support the cause. You cannot use a null hypothesis to "prove" something from an unrelated set of criteria. It is impossible to determine how many people that did NOT support the cause did not donate. I know that concept can be difficult for some to understand.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_hypothesis"]Null hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Fundraising of any sort is a multifactorial process. It is a leap of logic to conclude "that is not indicative of an abundance of people who believe RZ's death was anything other than a suicide". That is a rather low level of logic and reasoning, IMO.

A casual perusal of many internet sites and comments will reveal that there is probably less than 5 people commenting regularly who believe RZ committed suicide. The comments after most articles (not a scientific sample, of course) run 99:1 (my estimate-- no link) in favor of murder as the answer to how Rebecca died. There is FAR more evidence that the "public" feels Rebecca was murdered, than the very few posts that support suicide.

Critical thinking is a skill. Logic is also a skill, as in the ability to lay out a logical argument. It's good to learn these skills, and practice them often. Keeps the gray matter functioning better, longer.

BTW, this is an awesome read! Paul and Elder rock!

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Critical-Thinking-Taking-Professional-Personal/dp/0130647608/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377058648&sr=8-1&keywords=critical+thinking"]Amazon.com: Critical Thinking: Tools for Taking Charge of Your Professional and Personal Life (9780130647603): Richard Paul, Linda Elder: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41tQ8wAPAQL.@@AMEPARAM@@41tQ8wAPAQL[/ame]

 

[justice be served]

BBM, and snipped for relevance.

This is a really great example of a factual statement, followed by a logical fallacy, or a fallacy of presumption. The conclusion "that is not indicative of an abundance of people who believe RZ's death was anything other than a suicide" is not at all supported by the ABSENCE of donors.

Fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The FACTUAL statement, "$5438 given by 56 donors" is just that-- a factual statement. One can only infer that the 56 donors who DID contribute in some way support the cause. You cannot use a null hypothesis to "prove" something from an unrelated set of criteria. It is impossible to determine how many people that did NOT support the cause did not donate. I know that concept can be difficult for some to understand.

Null hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fundraising of any sort is a multifactorial process. It is a leap of logic to conclude "that is not indicative of an abundance of people who believe RZ's death was anything other than a suicide". That is a rather low level of logic and reasoning, IMO.

A casual perusal of many internet sites and comments will reveal that there is probably less than 5 people commenting regularly who believe RZ committed suicide. The comments after most articles (not a scientific sample, of course) run 99:1 (my estimate-- no link) in favor of murder as the answer to how Rebecca died. There is FAR more evidence that the "public" feels Rebecca was murdered, than the very few posts that support suicide.

Critical thinking is a skill. Logic is also a skill, as in the ability to lay out a logical argument. It's good to learn these skills, and practice them often. Keeps the gray matter functioning better, longer.

BTW, this is an awesome read! Paul and Elder rock!

Amazon.com: Critical Thinking: Tools for Taking Charge of Your Professional and Personal Life (9780130647603): Richard Paul, Linda Elder: Books

And should, by chance, some of those 5 be personally connected to the case, then it is closer to 100:0.

 

[K_Z]

It is more than interesting that a copy of The Housemaid movie was taken by LE. Were other movies also taken into custody? Only after I viewed snippets available on youtube was I convinced that MS did not fall unassisted and that RZ committed suicide. Since that time, I have viewed the full length versions which cemented my opinion that RZ was grossly involved in MS's injuries and subsequent death as there are too many parallels to be conincidence.

Snipped, colored, and BBM for relevance.

And so, if "other movies were taken into custody", your conclusions would be based on those movies? Especially if snippets of "those" movies were available on YouTube?? I'm really, really confused trying to follow this. Like "spraining my eyeballs" confused.

I'm having a very hard time understanding the logic of that statement. And I personally can't find any logic or reason in that statement, except maybe vulnerability to magical thinking, or tangential thinking. JMO, moo.

Hmmm....I wonder what would be concluded if these movies had been in the mansion.....

Close Encounters of the Third Kind-?

Home Alone- ?

The Handmaid's Tale-?

The Sixth Sense-?

Fatal Attraction-?

etc.