Fencesitters & Not Guilty Post Here

[Brefie]

Definitely crappy parents.
It just burns me up that they apparently made a provision for FIRE, yet didn't think about how a 3 yr old was going to lift 2 two year old out of their cribs. Blows the mind, but DEFINITELY does not make them capable of murder - much less guilty.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Definitely crappy parents.
It just burns me up that they apparently made a provision for FIRE, yet didn't think about how a 3 yr old was going to lift 2 two year old out of their cribs. Blows the mind, but DEFINITELY does not make them capable of murder - much less guilty.

Hi Brefie,

When I read this post, fire came out of me. So here goes. :twocents:

I agree one hundred percent with you. What hit me hard when I read your post was, "You darn right. They took care of the fire situation if it so happened to have occurred accidentaly.

But Maddy being able to lift the babes out of their cribs, no way. Sooooo, there is no doubt in my mind they knew Maddy couldn't lift them out, so where does that leave us? Their not that absent minded. Everyday, they saw the children growing, reaching new milestones and heigths, yes take heigths literally this time.

Statements like this even though it's not meant to, actually makes me get riled up that their guilty. Come one, with all hearsay about them giving their kids sedatives, then that's what an anethesiologist does. Their doctors. Rumor versus facts.

It is not too hard to believe they were sedating these kids. Heck, they left them alone night after night, and if I'm not mistaken they said the staff mentioned to them it was becoming a problem due to a complaint. I guess the woman upstairs again having contacted the front desk or told the maid service about her cries being heard beneath her.

I just got off a five week vacation in florida, everythign I told the maids was also known to the front desk by the next day, so I know what guests say travels to all the employees. We had trouble with young teenage boys coming to the pool and actually bullying Beau, and I got all kinds of calls the next day by staff.

A motel is very aware of what's going on with their guests. All of their comings and goings. It may not appear so, but oh yes, they know.

 

[Brefie]

Hi Brefie,
Statements like this even though it's not meant to, actually makes me get riled up that their guilty. Come one, with all hearsay about them giving their kids sedatives, then that's what an anesthesiologist does. Their doctors. Rumor versus facts.

Hey Kool!

Not quite sure what you mean by this?

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Hey Kool!

Not quite sure what you mean by this?

If it helps, me either!

I think I'm trying to say, the rumors of whether or not the Mccanns gave their children sedatives, (drugs), is in question. Me personally, I don't find it too much of a stretch or hard to believe they were drugging. I really really don't.

They obviously took other chances, we know that. Most of us wouldn't have taken. A Fact. Sooooo, I just really don't find it hard to believe they did drug these babies. I don't need them signed a confession form signed in blood. I really don't. Knowing what I do know already about them, I can go there.

Hope I made more sense Baby doll. :innocent:

 

[Brefie]

If it helps, me either!

I think I'm trying to say, the rumors of whether or not the Mccanns gave their children sedatives, (drugs), is in question. Me personally, I don't find it too much of a stretch or hard to believe they were drugging. I really really don't.

They obviously took other chances, we know that. Most of us wouldn't have taken. A Fact. Sooooo, I just really don't find it hard to believe they did drug these babies. I don't need them signed a confession form signed in blood. I really don't. Knowing what I do know already about them, I can go there.

Hope I made more sense Baby doll. :innocent:

Haaaaaaaaaa - you are so cute! ::blowkiss: :blowkiss:

You did make sense....this time!! I jest!

I know why you could make that assumption, for Dr's it may be a more 'educated risk' than leaving kids alone in a vacation resort. Does THAT make sense? Ha! My turn :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Much has been made about what the McCann's are educated about in connection with folks thinking they could do this, but, along those lines, if the kids were sedated, why let the cops take the twins out of the room? If this happened in the US, the first thing those cops would do would be to test the twins' diapers....I can't imagine, with all the 'planning' they are credited with, that their medical knowledge would let this pass them by.

It's ok by me that anyone 'go' where they will....obviously to do that here, you need, at the very least, a train of thought, imo. You have that - it's different from mine, but hey - that's what makes the world go around......and also why there are TWELVE people on a jury

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Haaaaaaaaaa - you are so cute! ::blowkiss: :blowkiss:

You did make sense....this time!! I jest!

I know why you could make that assumption, for Dr's it may be a more 'educated risk' than leaving kids alone in a vacation resort. Does THAT make sense? Ha! My turn :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Much has been made about what the McCann's are educated about in connection with folks thinking they could do this, but, along those lines, if the kids were sedated, why let the cops take the twins out of the room? If this happened in the US, the first thing those cops would do would be to test the twins' diapers....I can't imagine, with all the 'planning' they are credited with, that their medical knowledge would let this pass them by.

It's ok by me that anyone 'go' where they will....obviously to do that here, you need, at the very least, a train of thought, imo. You have that - it's different from mine, but hey - that's what makes the world go around......and also why there are TWELVE people on a jury

Absolutely! I don't see them confessing even if their guilty. So, we have to figure out what happened to Maddy with the facts we have to go on. Who ever did this, doesn't seem like their going to cave in.

I hope they have some forensics, and evidence to convict the guilty without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Brefie]

I hope so too, Kool, but I gotta say, it really does not seem that way...even with all the 'leaks'. They seem, right now at least, to be pretty easily explained. At least by a courtroom's 'beyond a reasonable doubt' standard. If that is Portugal's standard.

 

[Salem]

My thought is, if they did drug, they only did it on May 3rd and perhaps, the 2nd. After the lady upstairs complained about the crying. I don't think they drugged every night, because Mrs. Fenn says one of the children cried for 75 minutes on May 1st.

I haven't quite bought in to the drugging theory yet. But, I'm still thinking about it.........

Salem

 

[strach304]

The only thing bothering me about the drugging aspect is that it would explain why Kate thought Madeleine was abducted and didn't wander off on her own. These reports are really bad but I have read where she was adamant on that issue. If Madeleine was abducted but sedated by her parents then she wouldn't have woken up screaming either as she was carried off. I can believe that the twins didn't wake up from all the commotion just from reading other parents stories on that issue.

I agree with Salem about that being the only night they may have done it for the reasons she stated.

 

[colomom]

Definitely crappy parents.
It just burns me up that they apparently made a provision for FIRE, yet didn't think about how a 3 yr old was going to lift 2 two year old out of their cribs. Blows the mind, but DEFINITELY does not make them capable of murder - much less guilty.

You want to know what this is all about...let me tell you what this is all about.

The McCanns did not originally say that the door was unlocked. It was only after discovering/learning that the penalties for endangering the welfare of a child were greater for those who had left a child in an locked room/house/apartment then in a unlocked room/house/apartment that is was then reported that the room had been left unlocked.

 

[philamena]

Would it really have mattered if the door was locked? I read somewhere that the windows of the apartment were left open. Opened windows with locked doors wouldn't make much sense.

I want to discuss the wine. I've a few questions for anyone who has answers or who can lead me to a thread with answers.

Is it a fact that the McCann's and their friends drank 14 bottles of wine the night Maddie disappeared?

Did all the adults drink?
If so, I'd say the adults had a little 'buzz'--if not intoxicated.

Did the McCann's seem under the influence when they talked to police after they reported Maddie was missing?

 

[CaliKid]

The only thing bothering me about the drugging aspect is that it would explain why Kate thought Madeleine was abducted and didn't wander off on her own. These reports are really bad but I have read where she was adamant on that issue. If Madeleine was abducted but sedated by her parents then she wouldn't have woken up screaming either as she was carried off. I can believe that the twins didn't wake up from all the commotion just from reading other parents stories on that issue.

I agree with Salem about that being the only night they may have done it for the reasons she stated.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. We believe that the McCanns had been leaving their children all week to go out and party. We don't have the particulars about any other nights except May 1 and May 3.

May 1- One of the children (probably Madeleine because she could talk better) was crying "Daddy, daddy" for 75 minutes. Mrs. Fenn heard her and reported to the resort staff that the McCanns were leaving their children alone. Since a child awoke, it's doubtful she was sedated unless they didn't give her enough.

May 3- The resort staff had spoken to the McCanns and told them not to leave their children alone. The McCanns supposedly hired and then unhired a babysitter for them. Sedation could've been used, depending on theory. Madeleine disappeared and could've died accidentally or ?

 

[CaliKid]

You want to know what this is all about...let me tell you what this is all about.

The McCanns did not originally say that the door was unlocked. It was only after discovering/learning that the penalties for endangering the welfare of a child were greater for those who had left a child in an locked room/house/apartment then in a unlocked room/house/apartment that is was then reported that the room had been left unlocked.

Or to get more specific, after Madeleine went missing on May 3, the McCanns reported to the police that the window had been jemmied. Various checkers also said they noticed more light coming into the apartment than normal during their rounds and claimed the blinds (which had been left closed) were up. No mention was made of an unlocked door, but the McCanns said the "condition of the room" led them to believe Maddie had been abducted.

Subsequently, both the police and resort staff checked the window and blinds and said they showed no signs of being jemmied, forced, etc. At that point the McCanns started claiming they left the door unlocked.

 

[CaliKid]

Would it really have mattered if the door was locked? I read somewhere that the windows of the apartment were left open. Opened windows with locked doors wouldn't make much sense.

I want to discuss the wine. I've a few questions for anyone who has answers or who can lead me a thread with answers.

Is it a fact that the McCann's and their friends drank 14 bottles of wine the night Maddie disappeared?

Did all the adults drink?
If so, I'd say the adults had a little 'buzz'--if not intoxicated.

Did the McCann's seem under the influence when they talked to police when they alerted them that Maddie was missing?

According to Portuguese sources, 14 bottles of wine were ordered that night at the Tapas bar. We have no ideas how many were drunk or even opened. In any case, it looks as if the Tapas group was settled in for a long night of partying.

 

[philamena]

According to Portuguese sources, 14 bottles of wine were ordered that night at the Tapas bar. We have no ideas how many were drunk or even opened. In any case, it looks as if the Tapas group was settled in for a long night of partying.

Humm that's exactly what I read a day or 2 ago.
Let's say there were 8 adults who ordered 14 bottles of wine that night. Now assuming they all drank and they all drank equally, the 14 bottles of wine could be divided amongst the 8 adults. The adults would each get 1.85 bottles of wine.
OR let's do it this way. An average bottle of wine holds approx. 4 average wine glasses of wine. 4 glasses of wine times the 14 bottles of wine equals 56 glasses of wine. Divide 76 glasses of wine equally amongust 8 adults and that would mean that each adult drank 9.5 glasses of wine. :hand:

Sounds like they were probably legally drunk. And all these folks had small children?@?!?@?:doh:

 

[CaliKid]

On the flip side, can you imagine drinking all that wine and returning to your apartment at, say, 1-2 in the morning. At that point of intoxication, you probably won't be entering quietly and stand a good chance of waking up the kiddies. Oh what fun! Now you're drunk, the children (who have already slept for about 6 hours) are awake and want to get up, and all you want to do is go to bed. Makes a good case for why they might have been sedated.

 

[april4sky]

That's not true. I've seen many places where the McCanns have discussed this case, particularly the night that Madeleine went missing. It's only when it comes to questions regarding their culpability where they clam up and hide behind the secrecy laws.

And as far as I'm concerned, telling their family who then leaks the information to the press is the same thing as telling the press themselves.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...+want+to+leave+her+with+a+stranger/article.do

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1267568,00.html

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1267576,00.html (video)

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2607184.ece

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1270454,00.html

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,91210-1279448,.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2188493.ece

http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_hea...objectid=19572601&siteid=93463-name_page.html

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/2007/08/05/i-m-sorry-madeleine-98487-19573670/

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/2007/08/12/maddy-was-alive-when-taken-98487-19613517/

etc.

They have discussed Madeleine being missing but not their evidence.

There are a lot of links here but I don't believe any show the McCanns discussing their actual statements to the police.
They have many times said they are not allowed to discuss their evidence. Portugals secrecy laws forbid them from doing so as it could affect any future trial. And they have repeated that phrase many times too.
I haven't seen or heard their statements discussed by them at any time.

 

[Brefie]

On the flip side, can you imagine drinking all that wine and returning to your apartment at, say, 1-2 in the morning. At that point of intoxication, you probably won't be entering quietly and stand a good chance of waking up the kiddies. Oh what fun! Now you're drunk, the children (who have already slept for about 6 hours) are awake and want to get up, and all you want to do is go to bed. Makes a good case for why they might have been sedated.

With this reasoning, it would seem that even if they had a babysitter, there would also be a good case for sedation. Having someone sit with your child(ren) does not mean you won't get drunk and arrive home with a lot of noise.

 

[Brefie]

Humm that's exactly what I read a day or 2 ago.
Let's say there were 8 adults who ordered 14 bottles of wine that night. Now assuming they all drank and they all drank equally, the 14 bottles of wine could be divided amongst the 8 adults. The adults would each get 1.85 bottles of wine.
OR let's do it this way. An average bottle of wine holds approx. 4 average wine glasses of wine. 4 glasses of wine times the 14 bottles of wine equals 76 glasses of wine. Divide 76 glasses of wine equally amongust 8 adults and that would mean that each adult drank 9.5 glasses of wine. :hand:

Sounds like they were probably legally drunk. And all these folks had small children?@?!?@?:doh:

14 x 4 = 56 not 76.

And weren't there 9 diners? Someone's mother was there?

56 / 9 = 6.2 glasses per person.

Considering the McCann's and their group arrived no earlier than 8.30pm, that would leave the 90 minutes to drink 6.2 glasses of wine. That's a glass of wine every 15 minutes. With all of the getting up and checking, trivia games and eating, I find it very hard to believe that all of this wine was consumed.

 

[CaliKid]

They have discussed Madeleine being missing but not their evidence.

There are a lot of links here but I don't believe any show the McCanns discussing their actual statements to the police.
They have many times said they are not allowed to discuss their evidence. Portugals secrecy laws forbid them from doing so as it could affect any future trial. And they have repeated that phrase many times too.
I haven't seen or heard their statements discussed by them at any time.

Well, they've discussed what happened to them that night, and that's part of the investigation. I've heard Gerry McCann say that the nights they went out before May 3 are regulated by the secrecy laws, so surely what the McCanns did that night would be too.

Are you saying they lied to the police?