Fencesitters & Not Guilty Post Here

[Texana]

Let's get back to the start of all this--what we know for certain.

The McCanns have admitted to leaving their three small children in a room at a resort room while they had dinner with friends at a restaurant about a 100 yards away. The room, which may or may not have been locked, has access on side to a public thoroughfare. They had access to a night time babysitting service and babysitters that would come to the room, but they chose not to utilize either.

In several interviews the McCanns have defended this decision by saying the resort was "family friendly" and felt "safe." Gerry McCann implied it was the same as other people going to their garage when their children were upstairs in a house, it felt exactly the same way. Gerry gives the distance as about 50 yards when in reality it is about twice that. Kate McCann speaks of their decision as "a mistake, if you can call it that."

You can argue the evidence against the McCanns is not substantial, could be placed to frame them, etc, etc. You can present theories that the timeline was too restrictive for their involvement or that the cadaver dogs are not reliable.

But it is not reasonable to expect the McCanns' parenting not be examined thoroughly and questioned.They opened themselves up for that with their decision and all the other actions and comments they have made following that.

We can't take the "nobody's a perfect parent, so the McCanns shouldn't have their parenting judged or questioned" because with that, no parent would ever be accountable for their decisions or choices regarding their children. We owe children more than a blanket pass for not questioning the decisions of other parents, simply because we are all imperfect people.

None of us would be here today if it weren't for a decision made by the McCanns. All we are really doing at this point is trying to figure out which decision that really was--the decision to leave their children alone in a room vulnerable to injury or harm, or the decision to cover up something that happened to their daughter.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Let's get back to the start of all this--what we know for certain.

The McCanns have admitted to leaving their three small children in a room at a resort room while they had dinner with friends at a restaurant about a 100 yards away. The room, which may or may not have been locked, has access on side to a public thoroughfare. They had access to a night time babysitting service and babysitters that would come to the room, but they chose not to utilize either.

:woohoo: and you win the ten layer chocolate cake tiered with real diamonds, with a fountain of champagne flowing through the middle.

Seriously, good post. They have to be analyzed, picked through with a fine tooth comb in order to rule them in or out. Period. Any innocent parents I've ever seen, or persons in a case, don't mind. It's the guilty or questionable ones that seem to be offended. Am I wrong?

Thanks for this well laid out prospective, getting the focus back on the topic, not on our posters.

 

[ceeaura]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Well said Texana.

 

[SleuthMom]

Excellent, excellent!!!

 

[Texana]

No, Shrinky, horrible parents or a horrible parenting decison does not make one a murderer (or even someone who covers up an accidental death.)

But it does mean that other actions, decisions, and comments are evaluated in light of that decision. Character doesn't exist in a vacuum.

If Kate did make negative comments about her missing child in a journal, that might of course just be the ventings of a parent with three small children.

It could also be a way of distancing oneself from a child and justifying a decision made to get the child to calm down and go to sleep.

I'm really anxious to see the actual journal but it might be be months before we see it.

 

[Jdee]

Down where? On the ground, or when I refer to my body, you know, "down there"? I just didn't know so I was asking. If you referring to the later, and it's scary ? Uhmmmmmmmmm :silenced:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[CaliKid]

Very well put, Texana.

As far as income level goes, how rich or poor a parent is has nothing to do with how much sympathy I have for them. I do believe moms who are well off generally have it much easier than moms who are financially barely hanging on, but a lot boils down to support systems. And to be truthful, I might cut a break for a mother who has the world stacked against her, but it wouldn't extend if I suspected she harmed her child. Likewise, I don't feel more sorry for Mark Lunsford than for the Van Dams, to name two families who have had children stolen from their beds.

I do have a problem with the McCanns because they purposely left their children to fend for themselves more than once. Even if we find out in the future that they personally had nothing to do with Madeleine's death, the fact that they weren't physically in their apartment to protect their daughter from harm played a major part in her fate. Blame it on being naïve or thinking the resort was safe, but their excuses are just backpedaling.

 

[BloodshotEye]

Colomom: perfect picture! You guys are the best ;]

Say, Texana: Your statement really resonated with me. Your point about "All we are really doing at this point is trying to figure out which decision that really was--the decision to leave their children alone in a room vulnerable to injury or harm, or the decision to cover up something that happened to their daughter"; takes the air out of the room.

Indeed.
IMO, the timeline begins two nights before May 3. This goes to establishing a pattern of behavior for the McCann family. And from there, the clock begins ticking; events begin and are concluded. And at the end of the day, Texana's question, becomes the ultimate "redux" of this horrible circumstance...

The question: Is the McCann's guilt associated only with their "decision to leave their children alone in a room vulnerable to injury or harm", or is it associated with "the decision to cover up something that happened to their daughter".

I know what you mean, CaliKid. Their behavior seems "off" to me too. A complete disconnect. As if they are able to merely compartmentalize various issues and events, very easily. Kate seems like a very conflicted person to me. Conflicted, because she has matriculated through the same, rigorous med school, residency program, etc., as her husband. Yet she is the one who must ditch her career as a doctor, and juggle the demands of these three children, while her husband is seemingly disconnected. Husband seems to compete with (or resent?) the attention given to the children. Very sad, perilous dynamic in that house.

*passing herb tea to Brefie* ;]

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Worded perfectly Bloodshot in order to get the full blunt force impact. I also agree with your take on the family dynamics. Society has been teaching so much women's lib, that well, someone has to take care of the babies. It should be both parents involved, but equality every moment in the rearing just doesn't happen.

The mind set of society is, "Women don't need men" that's a lie, we do need them. Raising Diva's like I've been saying for a few years is causing problems. Kate isn't the only one for sure and I'm not calling her or accussing her of acting like a Diva.

The first few tender years of the childs life requires so much, but it does get less demanding as they get older. I just feel after reading and watching Kate, she didn't like the motherhood thing once she found out what it's truly all about.

Having said this, I don't find fault in her if it didn't come naturally. Mine didn't. I empathize with her there. But she did have the intellect and resources to know to reach out and get support, pay for areas in her life she felt overwhelmed in. Like for example, housecleaning to lighten the load at home, where so many and the majority of mothers don't. We have to do it all. But I don't hate Kate for being able to.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

The only things I hate are sin and the Devil. I'm not responding to posters mis-quoting me and making false statements concerning me.

I don't hate Kate. I hope this clears it up for the kind, decent and dedicated posters here who have given their time caring for Maddy and this entire mess of a case.

Money is not what motivates my empathy one way or another.

I feel Kate had resources to reach out and get help in areas of her life she may have felt overwhelmed and stressed. If she didn't feel overwhelmed, fine! Most parents don't have the resources, family, knowledge, education, money, as the Mccanns do. I'm glad they do have this, I don't hate them for providing an above standard life for their family, I think that's wonderful.

I'm not going to respond to baiting, for I enjoy posting and know it's a priviledge.

 

[BloodshotEye]

Thanks Kool LooK. But, my post is really crafted around Texana's clear-eyed distillation of what the real question is. Startling to see the essence of this whole thing, reduced to that.

Very introspective post of yours, KoolLook. It suggests to me, that Kate was totally unprepared to deal with the the 24/7 demands of three toddlers. Gradeschool, Highschool, University, Medical school - do we seriously think any of this prepares a parent for such a demanding job as raising children AND trying to keep one's career alive? Man. I wouldn't take that on that job (mother/physician), if you paid me a million bucks. No way.

Not that any of that has two hoots to do with the usual suspects in a case such as this. That is more a side-bar observation about the dynamic in that family; as so much has been revealed about them. But it is very interesting to be privy to some of this, when trying to understand the motivation behind leaving the children alone. Seems that the Husband puts pressure on Kate, to stop "doting" on them. His emotional state, seems rather juvenile and self-centered to me. Not the type that is prepared to give up their "selves", and focus on children. Very weird family.

 

[Brefie]

*passing herb tea to Brefie* ;]

:blushing: Thank you!:blushing:

 

[BloodshotEye]

You're very welcome ;]

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Thanks Kool LooK. But, my post is really crafted around Texana's clear-eyed distillation of what the real question is. Startling to see the essence of this whole thing, reduced to that.

Very introspective post of yours, KoolLook. It suggests to me, that Kate was totally unprepared to deal with the the 24/7 demands of three toddlers. Gradeschool, Highschool, University, Medical school - do we seriously think any of this prepares a parent for such a demanding job as raising children AND trying to keep one's career alive? Man. I wouldn't take that on that job (mother/physician), if you paid me a million bucks. No way.

Not that any of that has two hoots to do with the usual suspects in a case such as this. That is more a side-bar observation about the dynamic in that family; as so much has been revealed about them.

I absolutely know for a fact without a shadow of a doubt, all the education in the world doesn't have you 100% percent prepared for kids. I'm a poster girl for it. That's why I can empathize with Kate, I can relate if she has and does feel this way. It happened to me with the birth of my first child. I thought I had it all together and ready for her at the age of 25, nope, I sure didn't.

I have been wondering though, if it's possible Kate had or has post partum depression. I did and it was un-diagnosed and not treated. I suffered through it. Well, little Haylee did too, but thank goodness she didn't know for I just let her lay in her carry all on the sofa while I stared at her and didn't know what to do after feeding, changing and bathing. I didn't realize I could pick her up and make her giggle. So, I made up for it as she got older. Seriosly, I have been wondering about this concerning Kate, she may even have it and not know it.

I was going to start a thread on this, because it really has been bothering me and would explain the offish ness of her towards the children and other behaviors I've seen and read about. I really feel being highly educated, money are actually contributing factors to a woman's depression because it so drastically changes after child birth and we do get spoiled from the lifestyles we lead and have gotten accustomed too.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Aaaaaaaaawwwwwwwww, thank you! I love presents, I accept them all. :woohoo: You guys are the best!

 

[narlacat]

You know what Brefie, as educated as she was, with all the help and support, money available to her and resources, I don't have empathy for her concerning the children. I do have empathy being she could never have possibly known what it's like to be a parent because no one else or a book can educate you or prepare you until you actually have one. That, I can have mercy for. But admit it, don't be so prideful to the expense of the innocence of your children and their well being.

Smiling with the twins immediately after the disappearance of Maddy, yes, as a mother I do find it hard to swallow. You would have to be one to know Brefie. But I am glad you see the importance of knowing it's a big undertaking for I read your puppy post. It is a responsibility to be in charge of a living breathing thing.

I don't hate Kate at all. Kate needs to get real.

<<I believe kate is a hate filled spoiled brat. Who can't stand her own kids. I watch her on the videos with her kids, she's offish.>>

 

[narlacat]

<<It does stand that the Mc's is the most likely killers. Their more likely than not. Their moreso than a stranger. Narla, we all know here we haven't been given the contents of Kate's diary, yet!>>

It stands the Mc's have yet to be charged regarding their daughters death.

As it stands, they are innocent until proven guilty.

 

[BloodshotEye]

Interesting theory, KoolLook. Postpartum. At the very least, it might help to define her state of mind/being. That seeming "disconnect". It must be nothing short of simulated schizophrenia - to have to divide one's consciousness between the demands of toddlers, and the requirement to be a dispassionate/fact-based clinician at Kate's workplace. Gerry? Weird guy. Probably enjoys the lighter moments of parenting (taking children for icecream). But wants none of the "heavy lifting", so to speak. Definitely a weird guy.

This, and a complete lack of other information about the Tappas 9 and hotel staff, keeps me sitting on the fence...

 

[Love_Mama]

I'm thinking that eventually we'll find out some interesting things about Kate and Jerry's marriage. I personally think they were not getting along at all.
I see the in look in her face when he talks.........and she next to him.
There is no love, in that look!

xxxxxxxxxoooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

 

[KOOL LOOK]

I'm thinking that eventually we'll find out some interesting things about Kate and Jerry's marriage. I personally think they were not getting along at all.
I see the in look in her face when he talks.........and she next to him.
There is no love, in that look!

xxxxxxxxxoooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Nail on the Head, we have a winner! Love mama, I agree. Kate does look awfully stiff up beside her husband. I have thought and thought what could make her mouth so tight, tense, tersed and grimaced. I know Maddy is missing, but mine would be totally upside down. I've been wondering too about the marriage.

If they were swingers, they didn't have a loving close marriage. Very sad, if it's true.