FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[TorisMom003]

So if Zimmerman felt that his life was truly in danger why did he shoot to kill first instead of shooting to stop his "attacker" in the leg? Zimmerman clearly knew that police were on their way. There are other ways of making an attacker stop than shooting to kill. There was no weapon being used by Trayvon at the time, there was no weapon on Trayvon at all. Even if there had been a weapon then why not shoot to disable the attacker say in the arm holding the weapon or in the leg? This is just one of the things that make me question Zimmerman's intent that night.

MOO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I hope you all know that when my son in-law gets home I am gong to have him running up and down the sidewalk out front with me on the cell phone with him. I am going to have him run with the phone held normal and then with the bottom of the phone held away from his mouth pointed down but with the top part of it close to his ear. I think i will hear the footsteps just like on that 911.

 

[katydid23]

So if Zimmerman felt that his life was truly in danger why did he shoot to kill first instead of shooting to stop his "attacker" in the leg? Zimmerman clearly knew that police were on their way. There are other ways of making an attacker stop than shooting to kill. There was no weapon being used by Trayvon at the time, there was no weapon on Trayvon at all. Even if there had been a weapon then why not shoot to disable the attacker say in the arm holding the weapon or in the leg? This is just one of the things that make me question Zimmerman's intent that night.

MOO

But let's say you were struggling with someone else and they were trying to grab your gun, and the two of you were fighting for control of the weapon. Would you shoot them in the foot first then?

 

[csziggy]

I think George gets out and starts running towards Martin and the dispatcher ask him are you following him we don't need you to do that.

George is not about to let this guy get away and instantly he wonders how did they know I was following and he guesses by his breathing. So from then on if he is not talking he moves the phone away from his mouth so they can't hear his breathing and that is when you hear the footsteps of him running on the sidewalk. He tries to control his breathing when he has to talk and he stops at points but you can still hear the shortness of breath in certain words like when he says his last name.

He is still between the back of the buildings when the dispatcher ask him his home address and he starts to give it but says he does not want to because he doesn't know where this kid is. That implies the kid is close enough to hear it. If George was out on the street he could see far enough around him to know the kid was not there but if you watch that video Martins dad did you see little patios and storage areas Martin could have been standing in the shadows and overheard a conversation.

What bothers me is that shortly after the dispatcher tells GZ, "Ok, we don't need you to do that." the wind noises stop. That could be because GZ did go back to his vehicle or it could be that GZ was sheltered between the buildings.

The other part that bothers me are the odd clicking noises. I simply can't figure out what those are. They occur three times:

Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?
02:41:70 (odd clicking noise - gun?)
Zimmerman: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?
Zimmerman: (redacted by Mother Jones)
Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate,
03:04:07 (three odd clicking noises under the word gate)
tell them to go straight past the club house,
03:07:40 (three odd clicking noises, louder)
and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, they’ll see my truck... (unintelligible)
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/GZ911transcript.pdf

My first guess was 'gun' but in each sequence there are three clicks.

Here is the Kel-Tec PF9 being checked for a bullet in the chamber: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tAWgrfO3VNM#t=269s

Does that sound the same?

 

[TonyGatto]

First of all I do not patrol anything nor would I want a gun ever. That is just me.
Can’t give you a list of what I consider depraved.
But we all do gravitate to some, and not to others due to what we feel.
I have to tell you this, adults shoul care how the kids go out there.

One day I saw a young man come into the office with his pants at his knees yes his underpants all out.
he wanted one of the agents to show him an apartment. I went to the front desk and told the man
go home get dressed bring with you the following documents and then come back and someone would
show him an apartment. NO we do not have to just let it be No not anything goes.

I'm not being snarky, but what would you do if a young man came in wearing a shirt emblazoned with the confederate flag?

 

[mikeysmommom]

So if Zimmerman felt that his life was truly in danger why did he shoot to kill first instead of shooting to stop his "attacker" in the leg? Zimmerman clearly knew that police were on their way. There are other ways of making an attacker stop than shooting to kill. There was no weapon being used by Trayvon at the time, there was no weapon on Trayvon at all. Even if there had been a weapon then why not shoot to disable the attacker say in the arm holding the weapon or in the leg? This is just one of the things that make me question Zimmerman's intent that night.

MOO

When 911 callers stated wrestling IMO they were tumbling around fighting over GZ gun,a shot to the chest is what could happen if both were fighting for the gun and it went off.JMO.IF this is what GZ claims happened I can see why no charges were filed.

 

[Elley Mae]

First of all I do not patrol anything nor would I want a gun ever. That is just me.
Can’t give you a list of what I consider depraved.
But we all do gravitate to some, and not to others due to what we feel.
I have to tell you this, adults shoul care how the kids go out there.

One day I saw a young man come into the office with his pants at his knees yes his underpants all out.
he wanted one of the agents to show him an apartment. I went to the front desk and told the man
go home get dressed bring with you the following documents and then come back and someone would
show him an apartment. NO we do not have to just let it be No not anything goes.

I feel the way about the dang pants down and underwear showing, if they knew what it signified in prison they wouldn't do it. That makes me laugh inside when I see it. the youth today have no mannners and don't know how to dress. If I where ever in a position to hire, the pants, tats, hair would be very much a part of "we'll call if we have an opening" not.

 

[TorisMom003]

But let's say you were struggling with someone else and they were trying to grab your gun, and the two of you were fighting for control of the weapon. Would you shoot them in the foot first then?

Personally I would have never left my vehicle to begin with. Police had been notified and were on the way. The dispatcher was told what direction the "suspect" was going. It is not my job to follow anyone, it is not my job to decide who does or does not belong in the neighborhood that I live in and it most certainly is not my job to decide to use deadly force against someone when I could have avoided the situation entirely.

MOO

 

[LolaMoon08]

He called him a guy. I would assume 18-23 if I saw someone that tall.

No. When asked about the age of the suspicious black kid, he said he looked in his late teens.

 

[songline]

Your words, not mine. I'm just responding to your post that the neighborhood watch thing was not all-consuming to him. I'm wondering about that. Haven't seen one FB post, Tweet, web posting of any kind, not one word from his father, brother, so-called family friend JM, neighbor friend FT, about what he was into other than LE stuff. All they say is he was a great, loving guy. Again, nothing about his interests, aspirations, hobbies, likes and dislikes -- unless they are tied to LE. This doesn't make him a crazy dude itching to shoot someone, necessarily -- words you snarkily tried to put into my mouth. It does say he's very, very, very, very into this LE stuff.

I went out the other night -Date- the guy was an attorney, he did at some point sound like a lawyer
so what???? It is just what he likes to talk about because he is into it.
When people ask me what I do for fun...I do not have a long long list of hobbies, and work is fun for me too...
GZs entire family is in the court houses professionally, so why would I be surprised that he likes that?
I also have legal people in the family - I love to be here at WS looking into cases, because I am all about ethics and fair.
So what does it say about me? That I am nuts itching to be a juror on some international big case???
No I get myself dismissed. (I only do jury duty on civil cases)

YES GZs family is in th Legal Business so what if GZ likes anything to do with keeping the law SO WHAT?

 

[TorisMom003]

When 911 callers stated wrestling IMO they were tumbling around fighting over GZ gun,a shot to the chest is what could happen if both were fighting for the gun and it went off.JMO.IF this is what GZ claims happened I can see why no charges were filed.

Then there should be physical evidence present that shows that Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot Trayvon point blank. If, as some have claimed, Zimmerman was on the ground with Trayvon on top and Zimmerman fired his gun then where is the blood that would flow because of gravity on Zimmerman's shirt? There is none. If Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon at the time and shot Trayvon point blank then why would Zimmerman shoot him when he would be able to remove himself from the situation? Either way the evidence is not present to justify shooting Trayvon to kill.

MOO

 

[m00c0w]

I hope you all know that when my son in-law gets home I am gong to have him running up and down the sidewalk out front with me on the cell phone with him. I am going to have him run with the phone held normal and then with the bottom of the phone held away from his mouth pointed down but with the top part of it close to his ear. I think i will hear the footsteps just like on that 911.

Have him talk and give out phone numbers to you at the same time.

 

[OneLove]

Probably the same facts we all had at the time IMO Unless it can be proven TM did not confront and attack GZ first he was within the law.TM's own GF says TM speaks the first words which means to me he started the confrontation,he had to have come up on GZ to ask him why was he following him.IF TM started the fight which is what GZ is stating then TM made the mistake of attacking an armed man.JMO

GZ had already admitted to 911 that he was following TM. At that point, Trayvon was justified in turning to face his stalker and ask why he was stalking him, even if he said "what is your problem" or "you got a problem, man?". This 5'2" 57 year old pasty white woman might have done the same just to show a possible creep 'up to no good' that I wasn't intimidated by him, kwim?

If this DID happen, GZ should have gotten back in his car and waited for LE, NOT chased and shot TM. To me, it is clear that GZ's action from the point of having TM tell him to back off was provoked by anger and/or a driving passion to not have "this one" GET AWAY. that's my opinion.

 

[LambChop]

So if Zimmerman felt that his life was truly in danger why did he shoot to kill first instead of shooting to stop his "attacker" in the leg? Zimmerman clearly knew that police were on their way. There are other ways of making an attacker stop than shooting to kill. There was no weapon being used by Trayvon at the time, there was no weapon on Trayvon at all. Even if there had been a weapon then why not shoot to disable the attacker say in the arm holding the weapon or in the leg? This is just one of the things that make me question Zimmerman's intent that night.

MOO

We know there was a fight. We don't know who started it, could have been either one, TM because GZ was following him then decided to stand his ground, or if it was GZ because he tried to keep TM from leaving because LE was on the way (comment: they always get away). Either one is a likelihood, we just don't know which one. So now there is a fight (witnesses agree) and no matter who stated the fight it appears that TM may be on top in the beginning and at that point GZ may have feared TM would get his gun so he pulled it and TM seeing the gun feared GZ would pull the trigger and tried to grab it. This could have happened. This is why LE tells you to stay where you are, don't get any further involved, just wait for that car. This is truly their greatest nightmare. jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

Critics say the "Today" show attempted to incite racial anger when it cut crucial seconds from audio of a phone call placed by George Zimmerman just before he killed the teenager.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-nbc-news-editing-911-call-306359

 

[LolaMoon08]

There is no way I am going to be able to catch up.

OT: My niece (7) is doing a lyrical piece (dance) to "Borrowed Angels" for a recital and she showed it to me today. I cried so hard! It was so sad! Thought about all our young victims. Such a beautiful song and one that really puts cases like these into perspective.

They really are "Borrowed Angels" and they teach us so much if we are willing to listen.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMfv4w01HG0"]Borrowed Angels-Kristin Chenoweth - YouTube[/ame]

 

[songline]

Personally I would have never left my vehicle to begin with. Police had been notified and were on the way. The dispatcher was told what direction the "suspect" was going. It is not my job to follow anyone, it is not my job to decide who does or does not belong in the neighborhood that I live in and it most certainly is not my job to decide to use deadly force against someone when I could have avoided the situation entirely.

MOO

Me too, I would have stayed i my car with doors locked.
But we do NOT know that GZ used any deadly force.
We do know that something did happen and a boy is dead.
That is all we really know.

Just as you can imagine that maybe GZ used deadly force.
I can also imagine that maybe TM got smart and testy and caused this.
But do I know for sure? ... No I don’t know anything and neither do you.
:moo:

 

[OneLove]

I went out the other night -Date- the guy was an attorney, he did at some point sound like a lawyer
so what???? It is just what he likes to talk about because he is into it.
When people ask me what I do for fun...I do not have a long long list of hobbies, and work is fun for me too...
GZs entire family is in the court houses professionally, so why would I be surprised that he likes that?
I also have legal people in the family - I love to be here at WS looking into cases, because I am all about ethics and fair.
So what does it say about me? That I am nuts itching to be a juror on some international big case???
No I get myself dismissed. (I only do jury duty on civil cases)

YES GZs family is in th Legal Business so what if GZ likes anything to do with keeping the law SO WHAT?

Pardon, but being all about ethics and fairness, you might want to ask your attorney family and friends what they think about you serving jury duty with a defendant OR plaintiff that wears their shorts showing from beneath their pants, given what you have said in print here at Websleuths. :what:

 

[mikeysmommom]

Then there should be physical evidence present that shows that Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot Trayvon point blank. If, as some have claimed, Zimmerman was on the ground with Trayvon on top and Zimmerman fired his gun then where is the blood that would flow because of gravity on Zimmerman's shirt? There is none. If Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon at the time and shot Trayvon point blank then why would Zimmerman shoot him when he would be able to remove himself from the situation? Either way the evidence is not present to justify shooting Trayvon to kill.

MOO

I have not seen all the evidence in this case, no one has.Every one here is speculating 99% IMO Very possible with the witnesses saying TM was on top of GZ maybe both were holding gun when it went off.Until this is fully investigated no one knows enough to call it either way IMO

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

The law says if you shoot in self defense you are within your rights.
GZ may have very well been defending himself. I believe that he was.

I doubt it was necessary for Zimmerman to use deadly force to protect his own life, but that is what we have courts for, and I hope this makes it there.

My point is that Neighborhood Watch-ers are supposed to watch. They are not to pursue. They are not to put themselves in harm's way such that self-defense is even an issue. Law enforcement professionals are trained to keep loss of civilian life, in general and ideally, minimal. The real cops get to decide when to shoot in these situations, and the job of the wanna-be's is to stay home and help LE with observations, not fire power.