FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[Talina]

I did find it strange that Zimmerman didn't want to give his address to the 911 operator?? Maybe so no one would know where to find him after he did what he was planning to do all along!

I think the reason he didn't want to give his address is because he knew that he had no intentions of going home just yet and would not be there when the police arrived. He planned to still be out and about looking for the bad guys and he wanted LE to just call his cell when they go there so he could tell them where he was at. He had no idea where he'd be when they arrived so why give out his address....he wouldn't be there.

 

[CathyinTexas]

BBM. Exactly. The police didn't even know Zimmerman had a police record; how would they know what his parents did?

How do you know the police didn't know that, although it was stated that GZ told them that. Also, he knew some of the police by name, also.

 

[Sensei]

I thought LE only said it was in his waistband when they arrived on scene

What I would very much like to know is where was it after he left his truck.
Did he usually carry it when he was patrolling? If he did, where or how did he usually carry it, in a pocket, in his waistband, in a holster?

and did anyone ever ask or is it known how long he has had the gun and permit to carry? If he got that permit to carry just a short while ago that would say a lot to me about what happened.

Do we know the answers to any of those questions?

 

[Intermezzo]

Not to mention the following...

In 2005, George Zimmerman was twice accused of either criminal misconduct or violence.

That July, Zimmerman — 21 at the time — was at a bar near the University of Central Florida when a friend was arrested by state alcohol agents on suspicion of serving underage drinkers, according to an arrest report.

Zimmerman was talking with his friend, became profane and pushed an agent who tried to escort him away, the report said. Authorities said he was arrested after a short struggle.

Charged with resisting arrest without violence, he avoided conviction by entering a pretrial-diversion program, something common for first-time offenders.

A month later, court records show, a woman filed a petition for an injunction against Zimmerman, citing domestic violence. It's unclear what led to the petition, but Zimmerman responded by filing a petition of his own the following day.


Also of note from this article is this...

Capital One accused Zimmerman of failing to pay more than $1,000. He settled with the company for $2,135.82, records show, to cover his debts with interest, as well as attorney and court costs. However, the credit-card company soon reported that Zimmerman wasn't making the payments he had agreed to.

and last but certainly not least....
Records show Zimmerman is not the owner of the townhome where he lives in the gated Sanford community.

So it appears that Mr. Zimmerman is protecting a neighborhood in which he doesn't even own the property.

http://www.ky3.com/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-20120320,0,3736784.story?page=1

Thanks for the article.

I am so upset by this case..Zimmerman shot an unarmed minor child who was walking home from the store, and told by 911 Dispatch not to follow.
Martin was allowed to be in that gated community.

Does Zimmerman have aggression issues?


Points of the article that IMO are not necessary since it has nothing to do with him shooting unarmed Trayvon.

bbm
Many people don't OWN the property they live in, it's called Renting or living with someone. I have many friends and neighbors in Central Florida who no longer own a home and have to rent.

I don't care one iota about his credit card payment problems..

------------------------------

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-ground-law-on-trial-20120320,0,5559053.story

I have just read in the OS that Governor Scott supports a review of the Stand Your Ground Law.

From 2000 to 2005, an average of 13 killings by private citizens were deemed justified each year, according to FDLE statistics. But between 2006 and 2010, that average increased to 36 killings per year. The highest was 45 in 2009.
Lawmakers are already pushing for a review of the law.

 

[Sensei]

How do you know the police didn't know that, although it was stated that GZ told them that. Also, he knew some of the police by name, also.

If they did know it then they intentionally lied to TM's parents when they told them that he was squeeky clean. I don't have the like but I think that is one of the minor points that Lee admits that his department goofed up on. I will search for it

 

[Velouria]

837,001 signatures at change.org as of 1:28 central time.

http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-our-son-17-year-old-trayvon-martin

 

[Intermezzo]

I did find it strange that Zimmerman didn't want to give his address to the 911 operator?? Maybe so no one would know where to find him after he did what he was planning to do all along!

bbm
I am not sure what to make of that right now.
So for now I am on :fence:

For my own personal experience I have given my name, address and telephone number whenever I have called 911 or my local LE to report something.

 

[Reader]

I read the papers everyday teens are killing parents ,sisters, brothers,classmates ,each other,guns are everywhere.I do not have a link.

No It is not okay,but under the law everyone is speaking of if you feel threatened you can defend yourself.

It's not just to 'feel threatened'...it says (paraphrasing) in fear of great bodily harm or being permanently disabled or death.

How was TM going to inflict those type of injuries on GZ armed with skittles and a can of tea against a gun?

GZ lost the use of this self defense law for his killing of TM when he chased him down and caused the confrontation, which is now verified by the girlfriend's TC.

Even the people who sponsored the bill say this and say he should be arrested.

 

[SuziQ]

I just wonder if the Grand Jury finds no cause to charge,if they feel GZ acted within the law will people be satisfied? Will all the facts come out at that time?

I can only speak for me and say that I will not be satisfied. I think the facts of this case for the most part went bye bye when LE decided they were not going to investigate this case.

 

[CathyinTexas]

LE doesn't consider GZ following Trayvon an act of aggression because the following in itself was not illegal.

Is following someone with a loaded gun illegal?

 

[CathyinTexas]

Why would anyone feel the need to defend themselves from someone following him? Why not just keep on walking and ignore him? As I stated upthread in my opinion, perhaps Martin thought Zimmerman did make a racial slur, turned around and came after him. becoming the agressor.

I think anyone would feel threatened if another male was following them in the dark and then they saw a gun. I think some are forgetting that Trayvon was not an adult. This has really opened my eyes to how vulnerable African American males are in our society. My heart breaks for his family and friends. I would be satisfied if GZ spent a few years in jail, that would be some justice.

 

[gitana1]

The Police talked to people who were witness's and they talked to GZ.At that time if they felt he should have been arrested he would have been.It is up to the investigating officers whether to arrest GZ,apparently they did not charge him based on what they were told by anyone who saw what happened.

Not true. One witness states LE attempted to change her statement that she heard Trayvon calling for help, telling her she was mistaken and heard Zimmerman, not Trayvon. She called LE after that, on several occasions to make sure they had her statement right but no one got back to her.

Again, how do you know he wouldn't be walking around free? You're implying that the cops would care more about a white kid than a black kid...and would basically not care at all that a black kid was murdered? That's quite a baseless assumption. Where is the evidence that this is true?

Well, black folks know that that is true. It's not an assumption. It's statistics. In general, justice is much slower for black victims than white and much harsher against black defendants than whites (and yes, I know Zimmerman is half Hispanic, but his victim was black).

For example, black murderers are more likely than white murderers to receive the death penalty, black people are less likely to receive bail than whites and drug crimes are prosecuted more aggressively against blacks than whites. http://books.google.com/books?id=EH...y prosecuted if the victims are black&f=false.
And black victims of crime in general see their cases less aggressively prosecuted and find it harder to obtain justice: http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003&context=wmborj

Further, it's not the first time the Sanford Police have failed to make an arrest when the victim is black:

Florida police are investigating why cops did not arrest the son of a police lieutenant who allegedly punched a homeless man from behind and knocked him unconscious.
"After I saw the video I was shocked," Sanford Chief of Police Brian Tooley told ABC News. "I was very surprised after watching that video that we did not make an arrest that night."
The Dec. 4 incident came to light when a video emerged that appears to show Collison walk up behind Sherman Ware,48, punch him in the back of the head and leave him unconscious on the sidewalk.
"That guy just walks up and clocked him," said a man who witnessed the punch, but asked not to be identified. "I was like, God, this guy's got to go to jail. I mean, you can't walk around doing that kind of stuff." Foster says Collison, who is the son of Sanford Police Lt. Chris Collison, is getting special treatment, noting that he has still not been charged yet and the incident happened over three weeks ago.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/police-li...g-homeless-man/story?id=12507834#.T2ofNNXNmdg After video of the attack surfaced, the attacker was eventually arrested, after turning himself in, but he was released from jail quickly and ultimately only got probation. The victim was black.

The county there has failed to uphold charges when the victim is black as well:

But the 2005 killing of a black teenager, Travares McGill, by two white security guards, one the son of a Sanford Police officer, drove city race relations http://www.huffingtonpto a modern low, according to some black residents.
Early one summer morning, security guards Patrick Swofford and Bryan Ansley saw McGill dropping off a group of friends in the parking lot of the apartment complex they were hired to guard, according to published reports. They claimed McGill tried to run them down, and both fired, later claiming self-defense. McGill was pronounced dead at the scene. Swofford was a police department volunteer and Ansley is the son of a former veteran of the force.The pair was arrested and charged, Swofford with manslaughter and Ansley with firing into an occupied vehicle. But a judge later cited lack of evidence and dismissed both cases. According to autopsy reports, McGill suffered fatal gunshot wounds to the back, and it was unclear if the pair was in danger.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/14/trayvon-martin-sanford-florida_n_1345868.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/14/trayvon-martin-sanford-florida_n_1345868.html

Oh please! GZ is a murderer. It just hasn't been determined yet whether it was justifiable.

Well, that's not really true. Murder is a type of homicide but not all homicides are murders. It is a legal term of art. Zimmerman is a killer. I believe he is a murderer but if he is found to have committed a justifiable homicide, it will be homicide, but not murder.

If Trayvon has a record we will never see it because he is a juvenile.

Not true at all. He is dead and if he had a juvenile record, it would be fair game.

By all accounts, though, he was a sweet, gentle kid whose worst offenses were tardiness at school. Here's an example: http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/interview-with-trayvon-martins-friend/vGb7p/

Do not forget also the claims "by the sound of his voice" on the 911 tapes he must have been either drinking, or under the influence of drugs.

It's amazing how many unfounded rumors and accusations are being made about Zimmerman. How it's ok to comb through his past, yet Martin's is off limits. If it turns out events unfolded exactly as Zimmerman says - he was a victim too.

Seriously? First of all, why do you believe that the "past" of Trayvon, the 17 year old kid who was killed, is off limits? He has none! That's why you don't hear of it. Second, if events unfolded as Zimmerman says, he is NOT a victim. He ignored a police dispatcher's request that he not follow the victim in this case. You can hear him running after the kid on the tape. When a large man with a gun chooses to stalk and then chase down a child, at night, is the child to meekly submit to the stranger and assume he's not going to be raped, or kidnapped and tortured to death? Wow.

Why would anyone feel the need to defend themselves from someone following him? Why not just keep on walking and ignore him? As I stated upthread in my opinion, perhaps Martin thought Zimmerman did make a racial slur, turned around and came after him. becoming the agressor.

Do you really think that's what a 17 year old kid, who has no hint of aggressiveness or violence in his background, would do when confronted by a large, strange man, following him in the dark?

Besides, the girlfriend of Trayvon heard the beginning of the exchange on the phone. Trayvon was SCARED, not angry. He was trying to get away. he thought he had lost the strange man following him when the man reappeared. The girlfriend heard him ask why the man was following him. The man then asked, "What are you doing here?" And there was the sound of Trayvon's headset clattering which indicates some sort of impact occurred to dislodge it.

Further, another witness heard a child crying for help before a shot rang out. That's what she states.

But no, we are to believe that an unarmed, scared boy, who has no history of aggressiveness or violence, who is being followed a by a stranger, aggressively attacks the stranger? But the armed stranger, who does have a history of accusations of violence against him including a charge of assaulting an officer that was only dismissed via a diversion program, and who many neighbors state was aggressive with his self-appointed "policing" of their neighborhood, couldn't possibly have attacked the boy he had been following, against the dispatcher's request? This is simply not logical.

Because innocent people are never arrested?

His charges were dismissed after he went through a diversion program. That means he was NOT innocent. He just did what was necessary to reform, in the eyes of the law, such that the charges were dismissed. Happens all the time.

 

[LambChop]

Is following someone with a loaded gun illegal?

The security where I am wear shirts identifying them as security. Someone with no badge, no security shirt, no form of ID but a gun stuffed in his pants, what would you do? I know I'd try to get away from him as fast as I could. It feels quite different when you put yourself in TM's place.

 

[HiHater]

Is following someone with a loaded gun illegal?

There are legal ramifications that could arise from doing that. Maybe brandishing a firearm...harassment...criminal mischief...etc. I don't know an exact crime, but if that happened under any other circumstance, someone would be in trouble. JMO MOO

 

[LolaMoon08]

When you really think about it this is the only evidence we have to go off of.

1) Trayvon Martin is dead.

2) George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin.

3) Zimmerman's call to LE.

4) 911 calls from residents.

5) Recorded statement by the young girl Tray was on the phone with.

We have not seen any written reports, recorded reports, documented evidence... nothing!

I know people want to shout from the rooftops that George Zimmerman was injured, but until we see proof of that, there is no evidence of that.

Until we see proof from the autopsy report, a forensic study on the bullet that entered Trayvon's chest, or the shirt George Zimmerman was wearing that night, there is no evidence to suggest that Trayvon confronted or attacked Zimmerman first!

ETA: If Tray did cause Zimmerman's bloodied nose, Zimmerman's blood should be on Trayvon too!

 

[rossva]

How do you know the gun was in his waistband? He could have had it some kind of a holster; a shoulder holster, an ankle holster. Heck, some have claimed he had it in his hand the entire time. Thing is we do not know.

No one would engage in battle with a 9mm in their waistband.

 

[gitana1]

I think anyone would feel threatened if another male was following them in the dark and then they saw a gun. I think some are forgetting that Trayvon was not an adult. This has really opened my eyes to how vulnerable African American males are in our society. My heart breaks for his family and friends. I would be satisfied if GZ spent a few years in jail, that would be some justice.

Gosh, you said it much simpler and better than I did. We teach our kids to be wary of strangers. We teach them the dangers of being kidnapped or killed by weirdos. We hammer it into their brains.

But 140 pound Trayvon, a child still, was not supposed to be scared to death at the sight of a large man following him in the dark? I don't get this at all.

I really think that because Trayvon is black, some assume he MUST have been aggressive. It's a subconscious thing. http://hhd.csun.edu/wakefield/psych_in_the_schools_2.pdf

 

[LolaMoon08]

How do you know the gun was in his waistband? He could have had it some kind of a holster; a shoulder holster, an ankle holster. Heck, some have claimed he had it in his hand the entire time. Thing is we do not know.

The fact that the gun was in his waistband has been widely reported. I'm sure if you would do a quick look back through the thread/s you would see it. I am the one who believes he had the gun in his hand.

 

[rossva]

Apparently, Zimmerman has already proved once some thing like that did happen. He proved it well enough to the Sanford Police Department that they believed it.

The problem is that GZ is going to have to prove that it DID.

 

[Marshmallow]

Why would anyone feel the need to defend themselves from someone following him? Why not just keep on walking and ignore him? As I stated upthread in my opinion, perhaps Martin thought Zimmerman did make a racial slur, turned around and came after him. becoming the agressor.

I considered that but came back to the fact that Mr Zimmerman chose to follow/chase/confront Mr Martin. That he did so after calling 911 and replying to the suggestion that he not confront the young man makes it difficult for me to assume Mr Martin was the agressor. I can't find any way to justify Mr Zimmerman's actions after his call to 911. It seems wrong to me to just assume the young man had to be at fault or nothing like this would've happened. To me it seems that Mr Zimmerman was deliberate in his accosting Mr Martin and that he took a gun with him shows me that he was looking to bully or harm Mr Martin.