FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

[gracielee]

I listened to the tapes late last night and they, IMO, are extremely damning. Hearing the young man crying for help and then that loud gunshot. No wonder his parents were shattered, listening to the last moments of their sons life. Haunting.

 

[JeannaT]

It doesn't appear that the dispatcher in fact told GZ not to follow him, but rather "we don't need to you do that". As in, we're good enough at finding him you needn't bother.

Also, interesting that GZ didn't know the race of Trayvon until AFTER he was on the phone with 911. He didn't see a suspicious Black guy and call. He saw a suspicious guy (and shuffling around in the rain looking at condo units IS suspicious, considering their history of recent breakins) and called, and when asked he really didn't know until suddenly Tray turned around.

So much for calling because he's racist.

What still isn't clear is GZ's statements to the police, and the extent of his injuries, the angle of the shot, and why Tray was suspended from school. Could be something as simple as cheating on an exam, but it seems the parents would come right out and say that right away.

 

[jjenny]

Does anyone know how far away Zimmerman's car was from where Trayvon was shot? I think it's important to know just how far Zimmerman had chased him on foot. Or if Zimmerman literally jumped out of his car and ambused Trayvon.

Was Trayvon far enough away that he had slowed down, and then perhaps he was caught off guard by Zimmerman who was trying to "detain" him? Were there any witnesses who saw that part (the chase)?

I think the length of the chase could show a little bit about Zimmerman's mindset. Was he upset to be running in the ran? I don't know about pseudo-cops, but real cops get a bit upset when they have to chase ya!

JMO/IMO/MOO

GZ is not a real cop and therefore didn't have to chase anyone, was told police don't need him to chase anyone, but appears to have done it anyway.

 

[jjenny]

It doesn't appear that the dispatcher in fact told GZ not to follow him, but rather "we don't need to you do that". As in, we're good enough at finding him you needn't bother.

Also, interesting that GZ didn't know the race of Trayvon until AFTER he was on the phone with 911. He didn't see a suspicious Black guy and call. He saw a suspicious guy (and shuffling around in the rain looking at condo units IS suspicious, considering their history of recent breakins) and called, and when asked he really didn't know until suddenly Tray turned around.

So much for calling because he's racist.

What still isn't clear is GZ's statements to the police, and the extent of his injuries, the angle of the shot, and why Tray was suspended from school. Could be something as simple as cheating on an exam, but it seems the parents would come right out and say that right away.

I think it's pretty obvious dispatcher tells him not to follow, since dispatcher asks if he is following and then says "we don't need you to do that." I am not sure what difference does it make as to why the teen was suspended from school. If he saw GZ and took off running the teen was not trying to fight with GZ.

 

[SuziQ]

It doesn't appear that the dispatcher in fact told GZ not to follow him, but rather "we don't need to you do that". As in, we're good enough at finding him you needn't bother.

Also, interesting that GZ didn't know the race of Trayvon until AFTER he was on the phone with 911. He didn't see a suspicious Black guy and call. He saw a suspicious guy (and shuffling around in the rain looking at condo units IS suspicious, considering their history of recent breakins) and called, and when asked he really didn't know until suddenly Tray turned around.

So much for calling because he's racist.

What still isn't clear is GZ's statements to the police, and the extent of his injuries, the angle of the shot, and why Tray was suspended from school. Could be something as simple as cheating on an exam, but it seems the parents would come right out and say that right away.

I don't know where to begin to find the article, so take this FWIW. There was a statement released by someone stating that the suspension was not related to violence or drugs. The statement may have even gone further to state that there was no history of this at all. I will see if I can find the statement.

 

[belle3]

Another poster up thread posted about this situation with the sanford police but thought it was important to repost and make sure there is a clean up of this particular pd

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/police-li.../comments?type=story&id=12507834#.T2SwA_UsOSo

Warrant Out for Lieutenant's Son After Video Release

 

[momshrink]

http://www.americantowns.com/fl/san...rector-of-the-center-for-public-safety-229127

Seminole State College of Florida Names Bill Lee Director of the Center for Public Safety

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/police/index.html
Bill Lee
Chief of Police

Isnt that where GZ was getting his criminal justice degree?

Yes. Can we say "like a band of brothers?"
JMO
Could say more, but will stop here. Okay, will say it will have to be an outside agency with super powers. I do not think (MOO!) procedure was followed or evidence collected and preserved.
JMO

 

[belle3]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...w-shooting-of-black-teen-was-not-self-defense

Family: 911 calls show shooting of black teen was not self-defense

ETA: omg trayvons dad just said they did not find out that he was shot till around 8am the next day. WHAT!!!!

 

[Talina]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...w-shooting-of-black-teen-was-not-self-defense

Family: 911 calls show shooting of black teen was not self-defense

ETA: omg trayvons dad just said they did not find out that he was shot till around 8am the next day. WHAT!!!!

BBM

Well, how is that even possible?

 

[JeannaT]

I think it's pretty obvious dispatcher tells him not to follow, since dispatcher asks if he is following and then says "we don't need you to do that." I am not sure what difference does it make as to why the teen was suspended from school. If he saw GZ and took off running the teen was not trying to fight with GZ.

To me, it matters why he was suspended. It would shed light on what to expect from his behavior - aggression, drug use, etc? It's a mystery that they won't say why he was suspended if it is something that is truly unrelated to the big picture of this incident.

 

[Krisy]

To me, it matters why he was suspended. It would shed light on what to expect from his behavior - aggression, drug use, etc? It's a mystery that they won't say why he was suspended if it is something that is truly unrelated to the big picture of this incident.

But GZ knew nothing of his suspension, nothing of his past. To me it sounds like this child was walking home, got scared and ran from a stranger! Exactly what most adults would do as well!


**even IF he was high as a kite walking back home minding his own business, to me I don't get how that would make it ok for him to be harassed and then shot. Just a thought on your drug questioning.

 

[jjenny]

To me, it matters why he was suspended. It would shed light on what to expect from his behavior - aggression, drug use, etc? It's a mystery that they won't say why he was suspended if it is something that is truly unrelated to the big picture of this incident.

What difference does it make? We don't have laws allowing to kill those suspended from school.

 

[jjenny]

BBM

Well, how is that even possible?

His body was taken to the morgue and the police didn't know who he was.

 

[BuzzieCat]

According to early reports, GZ was a criminal justice major in a local college. He wanted to be a police officer. I think he was trying to live his fantasy as a wanna be cop. I wonder what connection Sanford police dept has with his criminal justice program. Did he know any of the officers from seminars or trainings at his college? Did GZ get special treatment because he was training to be a cop?
I shudder to think of him as a real cop.

I wonder about this, too.

***PS...one thing no one has pointed out yet is that GZ was a neighborhood watch captain. In at least two neighborhoods where I have lived, they have been "trained" by local LE. And maybe that's the problem.

One of the articles linked in this thread said he was the "self-appointed" neighborhood watch captain. So I wonder if he even got any training.

I can understand, if there's a spate of crime in your neighborhood, the desire to catch who's responsible and the feeling of frustration that the perp hasn't been caught. I can also understand seeing someone you don't know walking around in your neighborhood in the dark and wondering if maybe they're up to something - if you saw an old lady walking around vs. a lone teenager, who would you be more suspicious of? So I could understand, in those circumstances, calling the police to check it out.

What I don't understand is following him, getting out of the car and chasing him while packing heat. Also, I'm curious how someone like GZ managed to catch up to someone like Tray, who was 10 years younger, a lot thinner and probably faster. He must have been really determined to catch him. If only he had just waited for the police. It doesn't sound like Tray was doing anything wrong. I know I'd be trying to run if someone was following me in a car and/or on foot.

What did GZ expect to accomplish, anyway? Could the police have detained Tray and run his fingerprints to see if he was the burglar - just on GZ's say so? What did GZ want to happen?

 

[JeannaT]

BBM

Well, how is that even possible?

It sounds like the family never even made an attempt to find him all night - how could they have missed the cop cars and crime scene tape? I don't know where this information is coming from that they didn't know until 8 a.m. the next day, so I don't know what other information is provided about that - but any ID Tray would have on him would certainly not be a local address, no one there would know who he was, and it appears the family didn't make an attempt to retrace his steps after he'd been missing awhile.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, trying to point out both sides, and I find it very odd that it appears no one looked for this boy. By 9 o'clock, I'd be driving the neighborhood or calling his cell until I found him. It doesn't appear the family thought anything unusual of him being gone.

 

[JeannaT]

What difference does it make? We don't have laws allowing to kill those suspended from school.

I think I keep not making myself clear.

If he was suspended for picking fights unnecessarily, that would shed light on how he might have behaved the night of his death.

There is SO much here that isn't clear - the demeanors of both GZ and Trayvon, who threw the first punch (and that matters 100% to me). Who punched first.

Again, we don't know of any injuries to Tray before he was shot, but we do know that GZ sustained head injuries.

 

[gracielee]

I think I keep not making myself clear.

If he was suspended for picking fights unnecessarily, that would shed light on how he might have behaved the night of his death.

There is SO much here that isn't clear - the demeanors of both GZ and Trayvon, who threw the first punch (and that matters 100% to me). Who punched first.

Again, we don't know of any injuries to Tray before he was shot, but we do know that GZ sustained head injuries.

The 911 tapes sound pretty damning, but I too have wondered why Trayvon was suspended from school for two weeks. That's a pretty long suspension, isn't it? Don't have kids in school anymore myself, but it seems like a long suspension.

I've also wondered why his father and father's girlfriend, who apparently was the resident of this gated community, didn't notice he was missing and hadn't returned from going to the convenience store at what was it, 7:00 pm. the previous evening. And why they didn't hear/see all the sirens, flashing lights, commotion outside their residence. Were they even home?

At first I was led to believe, by news reports and articles, that Trayvon's father resided in this complex. But now it's reported that the father lived in Miami/Dade Co., and this was his girlfriends place? Is that correct?

Was Trayvon 6'3"? Not a lot of relavance in that except from a distance, he wouldn't look like a *little boy*, the way some of the witnesses have described, would he?

Don't get me wrong, I think George Zimmerman should have backed off and waited for LE to get there. But I would like answers to these questions.

 

[jjenny]

Again, in GZ's own 911 call, he says that suspicious person is running away toward back entrance. TM did not try to pick up a fight with GZ. Instead he tried to run away. GZ had to have followed him, so which one was the aggressor? An unarmed teenager who tried to run away or an armed man who was following him?

 

[momshrink]

There are several issues that are very concerning.
1.Sanford police department has a very bad track record in the community and has covered for those they considered their own.
2. Was GZ authorized by the HOA to carry a gun as neighborhood watch captain? This is important for civil suits.
3. How will this law of self defense be applied and will it stand the court test in this case?7
4. Was evidence preserved or collected? Did LE test GZ for drugs/alcohol?
5. What measures were this boys dad and gf taking to find him?

His suspension has nothing to do with this. Even if it was for fighting at school, this is a minor who was pursued by an armed adult who had no authority to direct or detain him.

MOO

 

[jjenny]

The 911 tapes sound pretty damning, but I too have wondered why Trayvon was suspended from school for two weeks. That's a pretty long suspension, isn't it? Don't have kids in school anymore myself, but it seems like a long suspension.

I've also wondered why his father and father's girlfriend, who apparently was the resident of this gated community, didn't notice he was missing and hadn't returned from going to the convenience store at what was it, 7:00 pm. the previous evening. And why they didn't hear/see all the sirens, flashing lights, commotion outside their residence. Were they even home?

At first I was led to believe, by news reports and articles, that Trayvon's father resided in this complex. But now it's reported that the father lived in Miami/Dade Co., and this was his girlfriends place? Is that correct?

Was Trayvon 6'3"? Not a lot of relavance in that except from a distance, he wouldn't look like a *little boy*, the way some of the witnesses have described, would he?

Don't get me wrong, I think George Zimmerman should have backed off and waited for LE to get there. But I would like answers to these questions.

None of the witnesses described him as a little boy in 911 calls. The woman who called him a "little boy" did so in her interviews some time after the fact. Presumably at that time she found out he was 17 and decided that makes him a "little boy."