FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[LolaMoon08]

He wasn't "armed" with iced tea and skittles. They are not weapons.He was unarmed. Therefore, why mention the tea and skittles in comparison with the 9mm pistol? What about the phone? He was carrying that too but we don't hear that he was "armed" with a phone. Repeatedly mentioning the tea and skittles simply plays on emotions because the candy evokes nostalgia and images of childhood innocence imo.

Because Trayvon going to the store and purchasing skittles for his little brother, and a can of ice tea for himself is an innocent act by a child. One that a child should not be followed, shot, and killed for.

 

[songline]

On the 2/26/2012 official police report, before the 911 call was released for public consumption, Zimmerman stated he was yelling for help and no one would help him. How was he to know this would become an issue now? He couldn't have known and I doubt he made it up - but I'm quite sure there will be those that say he did. My opinion this negates the speculation that it was Trayvon yelling for help. The officer giving the report could not have known about the witness report either.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

Assuming zimerman yelled help...Asuming Zimmerman thought the guy had a gun.
But the kid was running away not running after him...He was not in danger.
Why Shoot someone that way? WHY? If you are trigger happy
shoot the kid in the leg so he cant run anymore, and get the police.

I am bothered by Zimmerman - to me he seems to be depraved.
I am also bothered by the family calling on Al Sharpton -
this has made me back up and look closer.
I am following the case but not posting very much.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

IMO, it was relevant because the case was already being considered "stand your ground." I don't understand the reasoning behind an officer making a point of listening to the 911 call first thing the next day and conspiring to make the plea for help heard on the tape be part of Zimmerman's story. If anything, LE aren't all that fond of citizens taking the law into their own hands. I've had many courtesy officers over the years who were LE and they detest rent-a-cops who aren't actual officers.

This could be the case here - a gung-ho wannabe, I just haven't seen anything in his past to support it.

Zimmerman attended a four-month law-enforcement program in 2008 at the sheriff's office, said Kim Cannaday, spokeswoman for the Seminole County sheriff's office.

In his application for the course, Zimmerman wrote: "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard and I hope to one day become one."


http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-zimmerman/?hpt=us_c2

 

[T4Tide]

I am not supporting GZ at all. It is immediately being assumed in this case that the ONLY possible reason TM was singled out is because he is black. Could that be true? Possibly. However, no one here, and with the facts presented so far in this case even in a court of law, can prove that. For instance, let's replace TM's descriptions.

Do you think GZ would have called 911/shot TM if he had been an elderly black man? Do you think GZ would have called 911/shot TM if he had been an elderly black woman?
What if he had been a teen black girl? What if he had been a young white boy? What if he had been teen white girl?

The only way that anyone can prove this was a racially motivated crime is to answer yes to any of the questions involving black people. I am most suspicious of 17-35 year old white AND black males because they are statistically the ones who commit most crimes. Do other groups commit crimes? Yes, but not as often... and statistically not burglary. If a stranger approached my home, I would automatically be more suspicious of young, black male than I would an older, black female. That has absolutely nothing to do with their race.... but their gender. Am I sexist? Not at all! I am simply aware of my statistical surroundings in our society.

IMO, the exact same scenario could and would have happened if TM would have been a young white male. A family would have still lost a son. GZ would still NOT be arrested for any major crime. LE would still be questioned. There might be a local outrage of injustice, but no thread on WS, no major news, no leaders, marches, signs, etc. Those are only occurring because TM was black, and that is racist to me. JMHO Poor Trayvon.... he seemed like a really good kid. It's sad to me that the only thing the world can see about him is the color of his skin.

This exact sort of thing is what breeds future hatred and STIRS racial tension. I read three incidents in my local paper this morning of assaults/shootings/altercations. None of the articles mentioned the race of anyone involved. That is exactly how the articles surrounding this incident should be. It is no more important in an article or police report than the color of someone's eyes, where on their body they have birthmarks, or how long their toenails are. At some point, if we want our children to STOP seeing people as white and black, WE have to stop describing people and incidents as white and black. When and if the times comes for one awesome generation to step up and do so, the next generation will finally be cured. Unfortunately, it's not going to be our generation.

 

[LolaMoon08]

We also know, from his neighbor friend, that he was fed up and had fed up issues. What does that tell you? <snip> This neighbor friend, a former neighborhood watch captain himself, even makes disgusting comments about them moving into their neighborhood.

 

[ynotdivein]

Hadn't seen this posted yet:

President Obama: Trayvon Martin case a 'tragedy' (Miami Herald, 3/23/12)

"<snip> &#8220;I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen,&#8221;

Noting that his attorney general is looking into the case, the president prefaced his remarks by saying it was important he was not &#8220;impairing any investigation that&#8217;s taking place right now.&#8221;

Obama&#8217;s remarks came as he stood in the Rose Garden to introduce his new choice for the president of the World Bank.

They were his first remarks on the incident. The White House earlier in the week noted it was a &#8220;local&#8221; event.

Travyon&#8217;s parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, issued a statement after the Obama spoke, saying it was &#8220;humbling&#8221; that the president had taken time to talk about their son. <snip>"

 

[hollyblue]

Haven't been following this case that close except for on HLN, but all can say is I hope there is justice for Trayvon. BTW...I love Skittles too.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

There is evidence in the 911 call that Trayvon was acting suspicious, GZ followed him, as is his job - there's no PROOF anywhere that says he continued to stalk him - and the dispatcher never said the word "STOP".

BBM

1. Everything I've read says that neighborhood watch volunteers are NOT supposed to follow people they think are suspicious.

2. Per the police chief, Zimmerman wasn't on patrol that night. Lee:

"He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-zimmerman/?hpt=us_c2

 

[vlpate]

<snipped respectfully>
Of course we should believe the white shooter who pursued and shot dead an innocent boy despite being told not to as he would have no reason to lie. Must be the black family lying it was their son screaming and the witnesses lying that it was a boys voice and coming from the boy on the bottom under the bigger guy and the black girlfriend lying about her last terrifying conversation with Treyvon.

BEM: Who told GZ not to shoot? I haven't seen this anywhere.
BEM2: I'm not sure how the family would know who was screaming? I've listened to all the 911 calls and none of the callers could say who was screaming, but I haven't read the actual eyewitness statements that say they "knew" it was Trayvon screaming for help - would you mind telling me where to find those? TIA

Until this case, I honestly though cries of "racism" were overstated

With comments like the one above about who is lying - black or white, it becomes more and more about race and less about what really happened, which is what should be established first, IMO

GZ went looking for trouble and when there wasn't any he conjured some up in his favorite guise of a black boy and made sure this one wouldn't get away.

This is stated as fact - please, where is the background on GZ showing he is racist and what his favorite "guises" are. TIA
.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Because Trayvon going to the store and purchasing skittles for his little brother, and a can of ice tea for himself is an innocent act by a child. One that a child should not be followed, shot, and killed for.

He wasn't shot and killed because he went to the store to buy tea and skittles. I am certain GZ did not decide to shoot him because he went to the store.

 

[songline]

Farrakhan is calling for retaliation, right on schedule

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/far...e-no-peace-law-of-retaliation-may-be-applied/

OMG
first Al Sharpton and now Farrakhn.

IMHO - this will be a fiasco - this case can no longer be civil or JUST.

LE Messed up they needed to arrest GZ - and free him on bail.
this is a mess now.

EARLY ON I said that this family seems to have class - I do not imagine their son went out and upset GA.
NOW - I am wondering about that, it is not about race. I hate it when they pull that race card.

STILL I SAY Zimmerman should have been locked up and Ty deserves Justice.

 

[LolaMoon08]

He wasn't shot and killed because he went to the store to buy tea and skittles. I am certain GZ did not decide to shoot him because he went to the store.

Oh yes, I forgot, he was walking in HIS neighborhood.

 

[ynotdivein]

Also this one:

Slain teen's friends say he never picked a fight (Connecticut Post via AP, 3/23/12)

"<snip> The son of divorced parents, he grew up in working-class neighborhoods north of Miami's downtown. He and his father, a truck driver, were active in the Miramar Optimist Club, an organization that runs sports and academic programs for young people. Tracy Martin, the teen's father, coached his son's football team.

The boy was a swift athlete, according to a friend, and played a range of positions up to about age 14. After he stopped playing, he remained active in the organization, volunteering six days a week from June through November of last year to help run the team's concession stand. <snip>"

 

[songline]

He wasn't shot and killed because he went to the store to buy tea and skittles. I am certain GZ did not decide to shoot him because he went to the store.

But the kid was runing away and he was not in danger.
shooting was not the right call no matter what.

 

[songline]

There are some who suggest that after being followed in the vehicle, and then followed on foot, and attempting to evade the person following him, that once the person following him caught up to him, and we don't know how close the following person was, and after he belligerantly asked him "What are you doing around here" that Trayvon changed directions, approached this man, and attempted to attack him, somehow managed to knock him off his feet and was attacking, (bare handed mind you, with nothing that would be considered a deadly weapon) so viciously that GZ was in mortal fear, and had no option but to shoot him dead....

Doesn't sound reasonable or plausible to me, but that is the theory....

TY ..
I missed this - I hope he has a couple of witnesses.
IF someone is about to kill you with their bare hands and you do not dial 911
you are either Full of chit, or a moron looking for a problem.

Where is the girlfrinds story fit in on this?

 

[vlpate]

We also know, from his neighbor friend, that he was fed up and had fed up issues. What does that tell you? <snip>

There had been a lot of crime going on in the neighborhood - at least 8 burglaries. <snip>

<snip> This neighbor friend, a former neighborhood watch captain himself, even makes disgusting comments about them moving into their neighborhood.

BEM: Wow, talk about a stretch. Did GZ make disgusting remarks about "them" moving into the neighborhood? What the former watch captain feels is irrelevant.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

IMO, it was relevant because the case was already being considered "stand your ground." I don't understand the reasoning behind an officer making a point of listening to the 911 call first thing the next day and conspiring to make the plea for help heard on the tape be part of Zimmerman's story. If anything, LE aren't all that fond of citizens taking the law into their own hands. I've had many courtesy officers over the years who were LE and they detest rent-a-cops who aren't actual officers.

This could be the case here - a gung-ho wannabe, I just haven't seen anything in his past to support it.

This was a patrol officer on duty when the call came in. According to him all he did was secure the gun and zimmerman, watch them do cpr on the victim and hear Zimmerman say that about calling for help. Then he went back on duty and filled out this report when he got off duty at the end of the shift at 3:29.

Another odd thing is the other on patrol duty officer filled his report out his report an hour earlier.

How did this guy know it was being investigated as a stand your ground case?

 

[LolaMoon08]

Let's not forget, that before the release of the 911 calls, Police Chief Bill Lee was very vocal and made sure every opportunity was to paint Trayvon in a bad light. We have witness, who was questioned at the scene that night, that claims she told LE officers that it was Trayvon screaming only to be corrected by LE that it was Zimmerman screaming. Since when do LE officers correct a witnesses statement? This same witness claims that she had tried to contact LE numerous times only for LE to come back and say this witness didn't want to get involved... yet she gave a statement to police that night?

Another thing, this young girl on the phone with Tray that night may not have known Trayvon's mother and father to get into contact with them? Maybe she had tried to call LE? Maybe her parents didn't want her to get involved? Like I said, we didn't get to hear the 911 calls until 3 weeks after Tray was killed... that does not mean that the 911 calls didn't exist 3 weeks ago. I don't find it strange for the family to have not announced this girl out of respect for her and her family until they were able to hear for themselves the 911 calls in order to put together what exactly happened that night.

With as little investigating that appears to have been done in this case, I can see LE in Sanford ignoring a witness. They'd done it before? They'd even done it when a young man had a video of a crime and they didn't care to arrest the boy who commited the crime.

 

[Boytwnmom]

I don't think he's black and that's the important aspect, not what GZ was but what Treyvon was. Black, Treyvon committed the fatal error of walking around while black in a place seemingly terrorized by this self appointed neighborhood watch vigilante. GZ saw BLACK and called 911. GZ's race is not important here except that the police treated him better than they likely would have if he was black too. They believed his unsupported story because it was only a black boy lying dead. Apparently this town has a history of racial problems and it's fairly easy to see why. So, whatever GZ was it's only really important what he wasn't, Black.

Oh, for the record Hispanic is not a race, at least according to the sources I'm aware of including the US Census. Many people of Hispanic ethnicity consider themselves white. Zimmerman is not an Hispanic name that I'm aware of but I believe one of his parents is Peruvian. Again, whatever he is, it ain't black and that was the relevant racial component here.

So now GZ is white?

 

[vlpate]

TY ..
I missed this - I hope he has a couple of witnesses.
IF someone is about to kill you with their bare hands and you do not dial 911
you are either Full of chit, or a moron looking for a problem.

Where is the girlfrinds story fit in on this?

Start here Song - http://www.sanfordfl.gov/frames/home_frames.html

The girlfriend gave her statement 3 weeks after the fact - ABC got an exclusive with the girl and the family attorney. Trayvon was dead two days before being identified. The girlfriend describes talking on the phone with Trayvon and his being scared - being followed by someone, being hit....the phone somehow disconnecting (she never says she heard a shot), and then she apparently goes on with her life without ever calling the police about what she'd heard.