FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[JeannaT]

Why was Zimmerman even ON the phone with 911? Clearly, he wasn't heeding the advice of not following the potential perp, he wouldn't stay in one place and wait for an officer, he wasn't so intimidated that he avoided a confrontation by staying in his vehicle... Why? He was creating a recorded play by play of the warped reasoning behind his STALKING and KILLING of an unidentified scary person!

I mean, really, let's face it, he wasn't calling for help-- clearly. He wasn't accepting any.

His call tells us much more than he intended, imo.

He wasn't trying to get suggestions on his behavior from a dispatcher. He was trying to get LE out there, and quickly, to check out this guy he found suspicious.

Let me turn this around. If he intended to kill this guy in cold blood, why in the WORLD would he call the cops and ask for someone to arrive quickly?

He wouldn't.

 

[Lovejac]

*Chefmom has had Root Planing and a Root Canal today and has a sore mouth. *

I wish That GZ would be interviewed soon, and issue an apology to the family. Regardless of which side of the fence one is on, I believe that would help. I understand why he is not showing his face, and I can't blame him, but I feel that the public would like to hear from him. It just seems to me it would make him appear less evil if he weren't completely hiding from this. Perhaps a statement issued by an attorney even. I don't know. I would just like some acknowledgement from him about this. JMO

Ouch! I've been through that before. I hope you are feeling better and they gave you some good stuff for pain!

 

[jjenny]

I didn't realize that checking the number of bullets remaining in a gun was a test.

What is it, then?

 

[mikeysmommom]

He called the police for one, and he began by speaking with him. He ended up with injuries as well. You'd think he just spotted him and started shooting at him.

He also saw him run on to someones porch.If I saw a 6' tall male of any age on my neighbors porch never knocking on the door,ringing the bell I too would call police.I would think it might be someone looking to rob or harm my neighbor. I would not get my gun nor would I leave my house but I would call 911.

 

[HiHater]

What is it, then?

It is checking to see the number of bullets remaining in a gun.

 

[rossva]

Sure, although it has been discussed many times in the "chapter" of this thread.

"The police say that Martin’s phone was locked, and they were waiting for a subpoena to access it."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=50395

"As for checking the boy's phone records, Trayvon's phone was locked and detectives were in the process of getting a subpoena for the records, Morgenstern said."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/03/21/142736/commission-votes-no-confidence.html

Can you provide a link?

 

[Boytwnmom]

does not indicate any drug or alcohol testing. His car could have contained any substances he was using while stalking the boy. Also, when a person is armed and has been involved in a homicide and obviously had his gun in his car one might think it would be a good idea to see if he had any other weapons. Maybe they did take the gun. My point is actually not concerned with the specifics but rather the overall treatment of the victim versus the perpetrator and the obvious determination exhibited by the police department to sweep this under the rug.

The admitted shooter is sent home after killing an unarmed minor who was walking home with skittles and iced tea. The police chief essentially acts as a defense attorney for the killer saying the guy was a good guy, that he was "jumped" and it was self defense. Completely improper to make those statements and attempt to tell the public that Treyvon was the aggressor.

“Mr. Zimmerman’s claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon,” Police Chief Bill Lee said in an interview. “I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2696446_p2/trayvon-martin-case.html#storylink=cpy[

Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee has characterized Martin as the aggressor, based on the police department’s investigation. In an interview published by the Miami Herald, Lee asked rhetorically, “If someone asks you, ‘Hey do you live here?’ is it OK for you to jump on them and beat the crap out of somebody?” Lee said. “It’s not.”

http://www.thegrio.com/opinion/trayvon-martin-sanford-police-de-facto-defense-team-for-zimmeran.php

Witnesses support the account of police nonchalance about this homicide:

Cutcher was one of eight or nine 911 callers that night but she said investigators dismissed her, and a detective failed to follow up with her. Both women said police seemed very blasé.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2696446_p2/trayvon-martin-case.html#storylink=cpy

This police chief also lied about the racial aspect of the case:

Earlier this week, Lee also tried to downplay the significance of race in Martin's death. Lee, for example, stated that race could not have been a factor in Martin's death because when the police dispatcher asked Zimmerman to state the race of the individual he was observing, Zimmerman responded that he did not know. The 911 tape, however, directly contradicts Lee's statement. Instead, Zimmerman initially said that he believed Martin was black, and then a few seconds later he said that he was a "black male."

http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-911-call-contradicts.html

I am not usually quick to jump to a conclusion that people's actions are racially motivated. Maybe I should be. I have asked myself whether I feel there is any chance that were the roles reversed, Treyvon would have been treated the same as Zimmerman. I think most people, if they are honest, would not believe that would have been the case. It's so distressing to think this could happen in America in 2012. Not just Zimmerman and his one man crusade against black youth but the easy complicity of law enforcement. We all need to rely on LE to be fair and impartial in administering justice. How can anyone have any confidence that is the case in Sanford?

None of us know any of these things, except in fact they did demand his gun and he willingly gave it to them.

We don't know what testing was done for drugs or alcohol. The test surely could have been done. Why would his car need to be searched? I don't think there is anyone at all who thinks the car was involved in this.

 

[JeannaT]

Not instantly you can't. Once down, and they would be down for good in pain and you could apply pressure to stop the bleeding. Aiming for the heart and lungs is a death shot. Their dead before they hit the ground. TM wasn't fighting at that point. And the point is he never should have gotten close enough to have to shoot TM. It's never worth it, LE will tell you that. They preach that. No one's life was in danger as long as GZ had done what he was told, to stand down.

GZ is not going to win this one. He'd be better off asking for the FBI to clear him. I doubt that will happen. Still like to know how he got a handgun with his background check. jmo

He doesn't have any convictions on his record.

In order to be denied a gun, you have to have convictions for felonies.

 

[rotterdam]

The legs, arms and shoulder areas. Many states require you take a safety course before getting a handgun:

Requirements:
Submit to a background check, which is designed to discover if you're a person who's prohibited from owning firearms by federal law. Some prohibited persons include those that have been convicted of a serious crime, drug users, the mentally ill, fugitives from justice, illegal aliens, those who have renounced their citizenship, those discharged dishonorably from the armed services, those who have restraining orders against them and those who have been convicted of domestic violence.

Complete a firearms safety course. Some states require this before you can have a license issued to you.

BBM: How did he ever get a license to carry a concealed weapon with his history of domestic complaints????? And whoa, an assault on a police officer.

When I got a license to carry a gun in Fla sometime ago, it had on there that I could carry it concealed when I did not even ask for it. It might just be standard procedure. It was at that time.

 

[jjenny]

It is checking to see the number of bullets remaining in a gun.

Which is called "testing" the gun.

"Lee said that afterward police took Zimmerman into investigative detention and took his gun, which is being tested."
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...-Miami-Boys-Death-Police-Chief-142376875.html

 

[HiHater]

Sure, although it has been discussed many times in the "chapter" of this thread.

"The police say that Martin’s phone was locked, and they were waiting for a subpoena to access it."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=50395

"As for checking the boy's phone records, Trayvon's phone was locked and detectives were in the process of getting a subpoena for the records, Morgenstern said."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/03/21/142736/commission-votes-no-confidence.html

Thanks for the links.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Not if you are very close.

If they were wrestling like a 911 caller said maybe it was over the gun.The lady who said she saw them wrestling could not make out skin color but she did say they were wrestling.If both were fighting for control of the gun it might have just gone off.I could see GZ being a coward and screaming for help if he lost control over his gun JMO.

 

[vlpate]

Yes, well, you can tell from the 911 call that he did not simply approach TM and ask "Excuse me young sir, but might I ask what your business is tonight?"

he did NOT say, I am with neighborhood watch why are you here?

The girlfriend was pretty clear when she demonstrated what she heard which was a pretty belligerant "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE?"

If he wanted to and thought he could resolve things peacefully then his method truly sucks....and yes following someone and asking what they are doing in a certain way is in fact an aggressive act, and gives every indication that you want to start a physical fight.

My personal opinion is that everything that I have heard leads me to believe that he had every intention of starting a physical fight, and he wasn't afraid because after all he had a gu n.

I don't think the girlfriend is going to make the best witness - what she heard seems to change. Why does HLN have this taped statement from her anyway? Why did she wait so long to come forward? Shouldn't LE have it instead of a news show?? Seems to me the attorney for the parents is flaming the racial fire. He's trying this case in the media with rallies and Al Sharpton - guilty or not, the jury pool is filthy.


HLN
Trayvon: "What are you stopping me for?"
Zimmerman: "What are you doing around here"?

The National Post
According to Crump, attorney for the parents:
“Trayvon: "Why you following me, man?”’
Zimmerman: "What are you doing here?’“ .

Telegraph article: The unnamed 16-year-old girl has given a sworn statement saying that she heard someone "push" Trayvon after confronting him. "He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on.

Today Show: Her dad says he had his hoodie on because it was raining.
.

 

[Adrienne37]

LE took his gun into evidence and tested it.

Do you have a link stating that his gun was tested by LE? I know they took the gun but never did see anything about them testing it.

 

[rotterdam]

If that were true, then according to this 911 call in which you can clearly hear the screaming, Zimmerman would have had to hold out his gun out and point it directly at Trayvon's chest, scream "HELP!" directly at Tray and then immediately pull the trigger, killing him.

That scenario just doesn't make sense to me.

Yep, and that kind of bothers me. GZ only shot one time like he had plenty of time to aim at the heart. I would expect multiple shots if they were in a struggle and GZ was desperately in fear of his life..

 

[LambChop]

Lower part of legs will stop a person without killing them although they can still bleed to death.../quote]

The one thing I always heard about guns is that even LE are thought to shoot in the body mass because it's easy to miss if you aim for an arm or a leg.

LE can't fire their guns unless their life or another life is in danger. My husband was with LE and said he never fired his handgun and he was with a big city police force during the riots. If they are sharp shooters they try to spare a life, but if they have a hostage situation I imagine it's a head shot. Not even LE want to kill someone if there is a possibility to subdue them without the use of a firearm. Plus all LE have to qualify on the shooting range regularly. I remember going with my husband for practice because his testing was coming up. He had to practice because he never fired his gun.

And what was GZ afraid of? What was the threat of death he felt from TM? TM had no weapon. Only a cell phone in his hand. You know how kids are about their cell phones. I would think he would want to protect it. We still do not know where the cell phone was after the shooting. What if it was still in TM's hand? Seems to me that is a question that needs to be answered because it would tell us a lot about who was the aggressor. jmo

 

[mikeysmommom]

Thanks for the links.

I wonder if the father had the phone log you can access online if the phone was on his acct or the mom if it is on her acct.The dad might not have seen girlfriends number from actual phone.

 

[Boytwnmom]

this one get away, like all the other black guys he had called the police on. He wanted them to do their job as he saw it but feared they would be too late and this guy would walk away without being accosted by the police even though this kid had done absolutely NOTHING to warrant suspicion. Old George couldn't take it, the boy was walking away and the police were nowhere to be found so he decided to make sure the boy didn't get away. That was his intent-to NOT let him get away. As it turned out we saw how far he was willing to go to make sure this black boy didn't get away. Lethal force was always an option for him once he took the gun and stalked Treyvon. This really isn't a hard or complicated story. This guy is convinced all these black youth are committing crimes in his hood and getting away with it and he's had it and takes his gun so that this really suspicious guy doesn't get away.

He wasn't trying to get suggestions on his behavior from a dispatcher. He was trying to get LE out there, and quickly, to check out this guy he found suspicious.

Let me turn this around. If he intended to kill this guy in cold blood, why in the WORLD would he call the cops and ask for someone to arrive quickly?

He wouldn't.

 

[rossva]

As there is zero proof Zimmerman walked up to Martin and shot him in cold blood.

there is zero proof that the frightened young man jumped the armed adult who was following him.

 

[Sensei]

I'm just going to say this. What would have happened if Trayvon, confronted by this nosy tattletale guy, just said what he was doing there? This is interesting because my ALSO 17 year old son was tonight confronted at an athletic field where he was in the creek gathering pond plants. The adult stared him down for quite awhile, and then approached, and my son thought that was pretty creepy but said "hello". And then when asked what he was doing, he said he was gathering pond plants for a project, again a big smile.

If Trayvon had done that he would be alive today. This is what people do to avoid violent confrontations - they lead with trying to diffuse the situation.

I certainly have seen enough young people who disarm a volatile situation by being humble and friendly.

THAT's what Trayvon could have done.

In all honesty, I think to avoid being shot Trayvon could have not chosen to throw the first punch, which is exactly what I believe happened. IMHO.

WHAT actual evidence does anyone have that Trayvon threw any punches, let alone the first one? The statement of the man who killed him? The man who if he says, " well, yeah, I grabbed him, I was afraid he would get away, but he punched me so I shot him"

How do you know that he was NOT humble and friendly? There are no witnesses that saw Trayvon throw any punch let alone the first one, and the PD did such a wonderful job investigating that there is NO mention that maybe his knuckles were scraped, or bruised from any punches, there is no information that GZ had anything more than a slight bloody nose, which he could have gotten if he fired the gun and it kicked back hitting him in the face as I have seen happen a number of times....The fact that the PD did not immediately take GZ to a hospital for a complete check is pretty proof positive that he was not beaten and battered to a degree that anyone would think that he had been in a fight for his life.

How does any one justify simply taking the word of a man who just killed an unarmed person that it was self defense, when the man admits that he followed and confronted that person intentionally, a person that he had alread told 911 that there was something wrong with (which we now know is not true) and that he appeared high on drugs (which we now know for a fact is not true) a man that told LE that his history of legal problems was squeeky clean (which we now know is NOT true)....and we are supposed to just take his word for it without any substantial proof that Trayvon EVER did anything but try and defend himself? Nope not me, and apparently not the over a million people who signed the petition or the people who are now protesting all over the country....