FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

[vlpate]

Maybe because Zimmerman had been following him and got ahead of him and then Zimmerman was looking in his rear view mirror as Trayvon came up? There is no indication in the call to say if Zimmerman was driving or parked until he got out of the truck and you hear his running foot steps.

BEM: Not indicative of either stalking or following.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/03/listen-to-the-trayvon-martin-911-call.html]911 Call (quoting)
GZ: Yeah, a dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie and either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. (unintelligible)..he's just staring
Dispatcher: Oh, he's just walking around the area?
GZ: Looking at all the houses
Dispathcher: oh ok
GZ: He's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Ok you said it is 1111 (Patridge?) or 111?
GZ: That's the club house
Dispatcher: He's near the club house right now?
GZ: Yeah, now he's coming towards me
Dispatcher: Ok
GZ: He's got his hand in his waistband. Yeah, he's a black male
Dispatcher: Ok, how old would you say he is
GZ: He's got a button on his shirt
He's late teens
Dispatcher: Late teens, ok
GZ: Something's wrong with him. Yep, he's coming to check me out.

 

[m00c0w]

Nonsense. A 9mm slug is bigger then any of those I listed except for the 50 cal.

Dude. Exit wound != entrance wound. I can post some pretty gory pictures if you would like. Those rifle rounds tumble upon impact. They go head-over-tail. It creates a massive wound channel. .40, .45, and .357 SIG rounds are all bigger than 9mm rounds and have much "better" terminal ballistics. Their wound channels are also much bigger. This is what affects hemorrhaging. Not the size of the entrance wound. I'm not entirely sure what you're disputing.

 

[rossva]

SUNSHINE LAWS

1. Active criminal investigative and intelligence information exemption

a. Purpose and scope of exemption

Arrest and crime reports are generally considered to be open to public inspection. AGOs 91-74 and 80-96. And see AGO 08-23 (officer trip sheets revealing identity of officer, location and hours of work and locations to which officers have responded for emergency and non-emergency purposes are public records). However, s. 119.071(2)(c)1., F.S., exempts active criminal intelligence information and active criminal investigative information from public inspection. To be exempt, the information must be both "active" and constitute either "criminal investigative" or "criminal intelligence" information. See Woolling v. Lamar, 764 So. 2d 765, 768 (Fla. 5th DCA 2000), review denied, 786 So. 2d 1186 (Fla. 2001).

2. Autopsy records

a. Autopsy reports

Autopsy reports made by a district medical examiner pursuant to Ch. 406, F.S., are public records and are open to the public for inspection in the absence of an exemption. AGO 78-23. Cf. Church of Scientology Flag Service Org., Inc. v. Wood, No. 97-688CI-07 (Fla. 6th Cir. Ct. February 27, 1997) (physical specimens relating to an autopsy are not public records, although drafts and notes taken during an autopsy as well as laboratory reports and photographs are public records). And see Bludworth v. Palm Beach Newspapers, Inc., 476 So. 2d 775, 777 (Fla. 4th DCA 1985), review denied, 488 So. 2d 67 (Fla. 1986), noting that a former statutory exemption precluding release of autopsy reports had been repealed.

Although autopsy reports are subject to Ch. 119, F.S., "[d]ocuments or records made confidential by statute do not lose such status upon receipt by the medical examiner." AGO 78-23. See Church of Scientology Flag Service Org., Inc. v. Wood, supra (predeath medical records in the possession of the medical examiner are not subject to public inspection). In addition, statutory exemptions from disclosure, such as the exemption for active criminal investigative information, may also apply to portions of the autopsy report itself. AGO 78-23. See Williams v. City of Minneola, 575 So. 2d 683 (Fla. 5th DCA), review denied, 589 So. 2d 289 (Fla. 1991), noting the application of the active criminal investigative information exemption to information contained in autopsy records.

http://www.myfloridalegal.com/sun.nsf/sunmanual/1BB05D142D8E4724852566F3006C7A1A

 

[vlpate]

Interesting. Tray's father on Dateline just said that the initial story that LE told him was that TM was atop GZ, TM's hand over GZ's mouth, and just "whaling on him," that GZ was somehow able to unholster his gun and shot TM. His father says that LE told him TM reared up and said, "You got me, man."

When you say "initial" story, was there a subsequent story from LE to dispute that version?

 

[LolaMoon08]

“If someone asks you, ‘Hey do you live here?’ is it OK for you to jump on them and beat the crap out of somebody?” Lee said. “It’s not.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/v-fullstory/2696446/trayvon-martin-case.html#storylink=cpy

Here, Bill Lee states that Zimmerman did have words with Trayvon and then Trayvon beat the crap out of him? So did Zimmerman yell from over his shoulder to Trayvon "Hey do you live here" and then Trayvon attacked him from the back?

 

[m00c0w]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...case-george-zimmerman-bill-lee_n_1371635.html


At some point Martin noticed that he was being trailed, Lee has said. The chief said Martin turned and confronted Zimmerman, asking why he was being followed. At that point Lee said a confrontation ensued. Lee says that Zimmerman said he stepped out of his truck to jot down the address to give to a 911 dispatcher when Martin attacked him from behind.

So first there was a confrontation, then Zimmerman walked away, jotted down a street address, and Trayvon jumped him from behind? He makes it sound like there was two confrontations?

It actually sounds like the chief was describing the same story. He just further describes the confrontation that happened.

 

[Inabsentia]

I've also read reports that say the magazine was still fully loaded, while there was no round in the chamber. This can imply many things.

link please.

 

[vlpate]

and yes for those wandering - Trayvon's father stated that Zimmerman weighed 250 pounds so that should clear up any confusion about that particular fact.

Where did he say that. I've seen it written here that Trayvon's father also said it was not his son screaming, and later changed it to it was his son screaming.

 

[m00c0w]

link please.

I'm not sure how to do a blockquote.

"Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman’s handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said."

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/n...ired_once_not_twice_by_crime_watch_volunteer/

 

[mikeysmommom]

This is what I believe and why I believe the autopsy hasn't been released. There is something in that report they do not want to release and I believe the point of entry is it. Wonder how they will eventually deal with this? They will have to release it sooner or later due to sunshine laws. Maybe they are waiting for things to calm down, but I think it is just going to make it worse if they continue not releasing it and then it is discovered why it wasn't released.

IF they wanted things to calm down they would just arrest GZ.Since they have not caved in from the outside pressure IMO,JMO I am speculating they do have evidence that shows GZ should not have been arrested.Most likely they would have released the info they have by now.The Chief temporarily stepping down since he stands by his departments decision not to arrest, others are now handling this matter.So IMO That is why we have not seen more released.When the FBI, Special Prosecutor, and the Grand Jury get done with their investigations I am sure more will be released.All this is JMO and IMO.IIRC after George Anthonys Grand Jury testimony we sat on our hands for quite a while waiting till documents came out.

 

[Boytwnmom]

the media doesn't need to tell me what is quite apparent in GZ's history and actions that evening. A dead child is not secondary to anything. Blaming the media is the height of ridiculousness because if not for the media there would be no one who even knew about this killing as it would have just been swept under the rug. And no one has argued for stringing him up-we want the incident thoroughly investigated which is now happening but which was not happening prior to public outcry. It sounds like you don't want the public involved-that's your perspective but many of us want the system to work...for everyone.

But the media at the time certainly "knew" he did it. The issue is an assumption of guilt. The media is certain that Zimmerman was unjustified and killed a child in cold blood. The circumstances surrounding the shooting are murky at best (at least to the general public). In both scenarios, the public is preparing to string up a man before he's even gone to trial. That Zimmerman shot a child is secondary. The issue is whether he did it justifiably or not, and that is where the parallel comes in. The media has already made up their mind and is influencing the public perception of the case. That is not right.

 

[HiHater]

Where did he say that. I've seen it written here that Trayvon's father also said it was not his son screaming, and later changed it to it was his son screaming.

Did you skip over the part where Trayvon's father says he NEVER said it wasn't his son, just that the tape was too distorted?

What does one have to do with the other anyway?

 

[Marshmallow]

if Mr Zimmerman, a stranger, was following this young man (who was doing no wrong) and the young man gathered his courage to ask why, how is this detail now justification for the young man's death? I just don't get it, to me it makes no more sense than Geraldo blaming hoodies for crimes.

my use of the word 'if' shows that I am not belieivng this story as the entire thing could have been avoided if Mr Zimmerman had chosen to remain in his vehicle and not accost this young man. If Mr Zimmerman had waited that additonal couple on minutes, Mr Martin would be alive to tell his side of this horror. As it is we only have one side and it shows Mr Zimmerman as a man who wanted to be a crime stopper, the only problems being there was no crime and it wasn't his job.Neigborhood watch members do not get guns, they are not police. They get phones to call the real police. Mr Zimmerman had no right to cause this.

 

[ynotdivein]

When you say "initial" story, was there a subsequent story from LE to dispute that version?

I did not hear the father say anything like that. Let me rewind and get exactly how he introduced this part. He was going through the events of how he was informed of Tray's death.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Ummm, yeah it is! It's more indirect, but the message is the same. George Zimmerman chose to ignore it because he wanted to get a black man. He was a vigilante, he had NO authority to carry a gun or pursue him in his capacity as Neighborhood Watch. Let's not blame the dispatcher here- it's not the Josh Powell case!

If he just wanted to do that he wouldn't have called the police before hand. I also don't think he would have allowed it to get to the point of being a physical confrontation imo.

 

[m00c0w]

the media doesn't need to tell me what is quite apparent in GZ's history and actions that evening. A dead child is not secondary to anything. Blaming the media is the height of ridiculousness because if not for the media there would be no one who even knew about this killing as it would have just been swept under the rug. And no one has argued for stringing him up-we want the incident thoroughly investigated which is now happening but which was not happening prior to public outcry. It sounds like you don't want the public involved-that's your perspective but many of us want the system to work...for everyone.

Do you have evidence that it was being swept under the rug? Not even two weeks after the shooting, the police were turning it over to the state attorney. This was before there was such a big public furor over everything.

 

[vlpate]

link please.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/n...ime_watch_volunteer/srvc=home&position=recent

"Police found a single shell casing at the scene, and when they seized George Zimmerman’s handgun, a Kel Tel 9 mm, its magazine was full, according to a source close to the investigation. The only bullet missing was the one in the chamber, the source said."

 

[HiHater]

Love the grill! I am one of the few people who have no problem with gold teeth? I've worn them for fun. Ha!

I have no problem with them either. I served in the United States Army with men and women who had grills. :twocents:

They are cosmetic, and not a true judge of character...

 

[rossva]

He did.

"While I was in such close cotact with Zimmerman, I could observe his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of the head."

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

Sounds like he noted blood to me.

Then the officer who observed Zimmerman's injuries and wet/grassy shirt should have also noted BLOOD.

 

[Boytwnmom]

with his obvious paranoia where everything a black boy does is strange and suspicious and dangerous? Like his statement that Trayvon was on drugs and up top no good and that there was "something wrong with him". Since he was sooo wrong about soo many other things why would I believe his characterizations of Trayvons activities?

BEM: Not indicative of either stalking or following.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/03/listen-to-the-trayvon-martin-911-call.html]911 Call (quoting)
GZ: Yeah, a dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie and either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. (unintelligible)..he's just staring
Dispatcher: Oh, he's just walking around the area?
GZ: Looking at all the houses
Dispathcher: oh ok
GZ: He's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Ok you said it is 1111 (Patridge?) or 111?
GZ: That's the club house
Dispatcher: He's near the club house right now?
GZ: Yeah, now he's coming towards me
Dispatcher: Ok
GZ: He's got his hand in his waistband. Yeah, he's a black male
Dispatcher: Ok, how old would you say he is
GZ: He's got a button on his shirt
He's late teens
Dispatcher: Late teens, ok
GZ: Something's wrong with him. Yep, he's coming to check me out.