FL 6 people including 4 children shot at Florida gun range

[human]

You can see what the CDC is concerned about with respect to accidental injuries to children:
http://www.cdc.gov/safechild/NAP/background.html

I mean that getting sooooooooo upset about a couple of children receiving superficial injuries from richocheting shotgun pellets that it's worthy of being called child endangerment is beyond silly. If taking a child to a gun range is "child endangerment," then allowing a child outside of its padded room is also child endangerment. Taking a child on a public road in a motor vehicle should make us all demand prosecution of every parent for child endangerment.

It's just silly, all the hysteria. I'm looking forward to teaching my grandson to shoot, as soon as he's old enough. He's in FAR more danger every time he gets in a car than he'll ever be plinking with a .22 at empty soda cans.

Do you have more current statistics?

 

[human]

Specifically, motor vehicles kill far more children every year than accidental firearm injuries.
More children drown every year than are accidentally killed by firearms, so that encompasses buckets & pools.
More children die from accidental falls every year than are accidentally killed by firearms, so that includes ladders.
More children die from accidental poisoning every year than are accidentally killed by firearms, so there's your household cleaners.
I don't have any numbers handy for dogs, but I know that I worry a lot more about my neighbor's pack of dogs hurting my grandson than I do about my neighbor's firearms hurting my grandson.

You can check the CDC's Wisqars data reports for more specific information:
http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10_us.html

Hm. I see firearms number one in suicide. Didn't check the homicide. Plenty of firearm deaths. Hm

 

[Woodland]

With all due respect sonjay, neither of your links compare gun deaths for children in the US to other forms of death for children. They mention what can kill a child. So?

I guess I can sort of see the parents of these superficially wounded kids laughing all the way to the hospital to have their children treated. They are likely back to school now anyway - so not a biggie at this point. I guess.

 

[flourish]

Maybe it's just me, but the relative "avoidability" is different with guns than other items or situations discussed IMO. Traffic exists in most American's daily worlds, so no surprise accidents with traffic happen. But I just can't say the same with guns.

By the by, Mr flourish is lucky to be alive as his kindergarten neighbor's parents were such safe gun owners that their 6 year old was able to get their gun and shoot my future husband during a neighborhood BBQ.

 

[sonjay]

Hm. I see firearms number one in suicide. Didn't check the homicide. Plenty of firearm deaths. Hm

Check accidental firearm deaths and injuries for children. Compare it to accidental deaths and injuries to children from .... motor vehicles. Pools. Other transportation. Falling. Poisons. Etc. We're not talking about suicide or homicide, which have absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread or the topic of children going to gun ranges to learn how to handle firearms.

 

[sonjay]

Maybe it's just me, but the relative "avoidability" is different with guns than other items or situations discussed IMO. Traffic exists in most American's daily worlds, so no surprise accidents with traffic happen. But I just can't say the same with guns. By the by, Mr flourish is lucky to be alive as his kindergarten neighbor's parents were such safe gun owners that their 6 year old was able to get their gun and shoot my future husband during a neighborhood BBQ.

Sorry to hear that. But the relative avoidability is kind of weird concept. A person could go their entire life without ever being in the presence of a gun, but it would be difficult to go an entire day without being in, or in the presence of, a vehicle of some sort. Much easier to avoid gun, IMO, if one is paranoid and fearful about them. A person who is similarly paranoid and fearful about the dangers of motor vehicles has a much more reality-based fear, and much less avoidability.

 

[sonjay]

With all due respect sonjay, neither of your links compare gun deaths for children in the US to other forms of death for children. They mention what can kill a child. So? I guess I can sort of see the parents of these superficially wounded kids laughing all the way to the hospital to have their children treated. They are likely back to school now anyway - so not a biggie at this point. I guess.

Right. Guns aren't even on the CDC's radar as a particularly worrisome cause of deaths or injuries to children. Motor vehicles, falls, drowning, poisoning, etc., are of much more concern, because the likelihood of being injured or killed is much much greater. Just because a person is afraid of guns doesn't mean they're as dangerous as the person fears. Sometimes fears are wildly out of proportion to the actual danger. That's why it can help to look at what the CDC actually knows are the major dangers to children of accidental deaths and injuries. Guns aren't even on the radar.

 

[Woodland]

Well, at first glance, here is an article from 2012 citing stats from the CDC in 2010. So the CDC must keep the stats somewhere, unless they stopped for some reason.

Then there are the stories of children killed in gun accidents and suicides. In 2010, the most recent year for which detailed Centers for Disease Control data is available, 129 people between the ages of 1 and 19 died in gun accidents. Another 749 took their own lives using a firearm, most of which were owned by a parent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/child-gun-deaths-newtown_n_2347920.html

This is an eye catcher from 2014 though.

Nearly 10,000 American children are injured or killed by guns every year

Over 7,000 children are hospitalized or killed due to gun violence every year, according to a new study published in the medical journal Pediatrics. An additional 3,000 children die from gun injuries before making it to the hospital, bringing the total number of injured or killed adolescents to 10,000 each year.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children

In my experience, people believe what they want to believe and ignore the rest. Jmo.

 

[bluesneakers]

I don't have any numbers handy for dogs, but I know that I worry a lot more about my neighbor's pack of dogs hurting my grandson than I do about my neighbor's firearms hurting my grandson.

I worry more about people with guns. JMO

2015 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities

In 2015, 34 dog attacks resulted in human death: 14 child victims and 20 adult victims. The state of Texas had the highest number of dog bite-related fatalities in 2015 with 5 deaths.

At a rate of more than twice a day, someone under 18 has been shot and killed.
(At least 756 American children have been killed by gunfire this year)

A remarkable 75 percent of children killed with guns this year have been under the age of 12. Since the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, three years ago, an American child under 12 has died by intentional and accidental gunfire every other day, according to analysis by NBC News. And those children are far more likely to die from guns held by family members and acquaintances than strangers, according to an NBC News analysis of FBI data.

 

[scmom]

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children
01/27/14 08:43 PM—Updated 01/28/14 01:11 PM
The new study, led by researchers at the Yale School of Medicine, highlights the toll gun violence has on child mortality rates in the country. Doctors surveyed the most recently released data from 2009 that tracked pediatric hospital stays.
Also snipped from the same article: In the 2009 Kids’ Inpatient Database (KID), 7,391 children under the age of 20...

 

[sonjay]

deleted double post

 

[sonjay]

Well, at first glance, here is an article from 2012 citing stats from the CDC in 2010. So the CDC must keep the stats somewhere, unless they stopped for some reason. Then there are the stories of children killed in gun accidents and suicides. In 2010, the most recent year for which detailed Centers for Disease Control data is available, 129 people between the ages of 1 and 19 died in gun accidents. Another 749 took their own lives using a firearm, most of which were owned by a parent. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/child-gun-deaths-newtown_n_2347920.html This is an eye catcher from 2014 though. Nearly 10,000 American children are injured or killed by guns every year Over 7,000 children are hospitalized or killed due to gun violence every year, according to a new study published in the medical journal Pediatrics. An additional 3,000 children die from gun injuries before making it to the hospital, bringing the total number of injured or killed adolescents to 10,000 each year. http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children In my experience, people believe what they want to believe and ignore the rest. Jmo.

When we look at accidental injuries and deaths involving actual children, the numbers are very low. When we expand that look to include homicides by gang-banger "teens" along with suicides, we do get a much bigger number. I have been talking about accidental injuries and deaths involving actual children, which seems to be the "child endangerment" that some people are so concerned about.

 

[sonjay]

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children
01/27/14 08:43 PM—Updated 01/28/14 01:11 PM
The new study, led by researchers at the Yale School of Medicine, highlights the toll gun violence has on child mortality rates in the country. Doctors surveyed the most recently released data from 2009 that tracked pediatric hospital stays.
Also snipped from the same article: In the 2009 Kids’ Inpatient Database (KID), 7,391 children under the age of 20...

As noted, the vast majority of those are gangbangers killing each other, and suicides. Not accidents on gun ranges, which is the topic of this thread.

 

[sonjay]

I worry more about people with guns. JMO

2015 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities


At a rate of more than twice a day, someone under 18 has been shot and killed.
(At least 756 American children have been killed by gunfire this year)

You should worry more about people without guns and a conceal-carry permit. Conceal-carry permit holders have a lower crime rate than those without one.

If you're not a gang-banger, and not suicidal, you have almost nothing to worry about with respect to firearms.

 

[scmom]

I thought it odd that the article referred to "children" under the age of 20. Later in the article it's stated that research shows a peak in homicides between "young adults" age 18 and 20.

 

[animlzrule]

Maybe it's just me, but the relative "avoidability" is different with guns than other items or situations discussed IMO. Traffic exists in most American's daily worlds, so no surprise accidents with traffic happen. But I just can't say the same with guns.

By the by, Mr flourish is lucky to be alive as his kindergarten neighbor's parents were such safe gun owners that their 6 year old was able to get their gun and shoot my future husband during a neighborhood BBQ.

And, given that a gun's sole purpose is to kill and is in no way a necessity of every day life as is transportation, it's a fallacious and irrelevant comparison. Traffic deaths have been falling steadily for years now, but gun deaths are rising.

Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S.

For the first time in more than 60 years, firearms and automobiles are killing Americans at an identical rate, according to new mortality data released this month by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ow-killing-as-many-people-as-cars-in-the-u-s/

 

[al66pine]

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/the-toll-gun-violence-children re 2009 figures in link from ^ Jan 28, 2014 article.
"That’s more than 7,000 children injured badly enough to be hospitalized,” said the study’s lead author, Dr. John Leventhal, a pediatrics professor at the Yale School of Medicine. “All are unnecessary hospitalizations because preventing gun violence is something that can actually be done.” " bbm

Using the lead author's line of thinking, re all kids ingesting poisonous household chemicals, those are unnecessary hospitalizations because preventing kids pulling Drano from the kitchen cabinet & drinking it is something that can actually be done. Or any other household cleaners.

Ditto, other causes of kids' injuries or deaths , e.g.,
- kids taking fatal overdoses of mom or dad's Rx or even a handful of OTC iron pills that can kill them. Preventable.
- kids wondering from house to backyard inflatable pool & drowning............................................... Preventable.
- kids injured, losing digit or limb, or killed playing w power tools in garage or basement.................... Preventable.
Etc.
Preventing any and all ^ injuries and deaths could "actually be done." At least theoretically.
JM2cts.

I did quickie search for updates about injuries to ppl at Ocala gun range, did not find. Anyone?

 

[Montjoy]

Check accidental firearm deaths and injuries for children. Compare it to accidental deaths and injuries to children from .... motor vehicles. Pools. Other transportation. Falling. Poisons. Etc. We're not talking about suicide or homicide, which have absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread or the topic of children going to gun ranges to learn how to handle firearms.

Those would be ridiculous comparisons. Compare firearm deaths to children in the USA with any other country in the world (that is not at war) -- now that would be a useful comparison.

 

[scmom]

From the same article:
Over the same period, gun deaths rose, but by a considerably smaller amount. Gun homicide rates have actually fallen in recent years, but those gains have been offset by rising gun suicide rates. Today, suicides account for roughly two out of every three gun deaths.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ow-killing-as-many-people-as-cars-in-the-u-s/

 

[KaaBoom]

And, given that a gun's sole purpose is to kill and is in no way a necessity of every day life as is transportation, it's a fallacious and irrelevant comparison. Traffic deaths have been falling steadily for years now, but gun deaths are rising.

Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S.

For the first time in more than 60 years, firearms and automobiles are killing Americans at an identical rate, according to new mortality data released this month by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ow-killing-as-many-people-as-cars-in-the-u-s/

Which is probably because we have been working to make automobile travel safer for the last 60 years. Safer cars, seat belts, airbags, stricter laws for drunk driving and distracted driving, etc.

Meanwhile for guns, we have done the exact opposite. Weaker laws, and we can’t even pass common sense gun regulations, such as mandatory background checks for gun owners. :facepalm: