FL - Anna Kepner, 18, dies aboard Carnival cruise ship traveling from Miami to Caribbean, FBI launch probe, 7 Nov 2025

[Megnut]

All the more reason to keep him indoors under house arrest and not allowing him contact with n unsuspecting public buying firewood imo

Do posters feel there will be charges in this case

Yes, there will be charges.

There were two teenagers in one cabin. Only one came out alive.

That's a problem.

I wonder if this might go the way of a grand jury.

When charges are levied, Prosecutions need to be ready for trial, even though trial speed is rarely speedy. Still they have to prepare for that possibility. Which means they need to prepare to upend whatever a Defense could try to lay down.

Mental illness/insanity defense
Rx defense
Sudden onset ship psychosis
Self-defense
Age (just a little boy? Or tried as an adult)
Accidental

Those are the ones that come quickly to mind. Probably not a lot of evidence to support any of them. But then, it's not the Defense's job to put on a defense. They could leave it be. Rest without one.

Still, the Prosecution has to be ready to down whatever expert, angle, even nonsense the Defense might throw up.

It's coming.

JMO

 

[su5ie]

Yes, there will be charges.

There were two teenagers in one cabin. Only one came out alive.

That's a problem.

I wonder if this might go the way of a grand jury.

When charges are levied, Prosecutions need to be ready for trial, even thought trial speed is rarely speedy. Still they have to prepare for that possibility. Which means they need to prepare to upend whatever a Defense could try to lay down.

Mental illness/insanity defense
Rx defense
Sudden onset ship psychosis
Self-defense
Age (just a little boy? Or tried as an adult)
Accidental

Those are the ones that come quickly to mind. Probably not a lot of evidence to support any of them. But then, it's not the Defense's job to put on a defense. They could leave it be. Rest without one.

Still, the Prosecution has to be ready to down whatever expert, angle, even nonsense the Defense might throw up.

It's coming.

JMO

Thank you megnut

 

[mickey2942]

@Megnut do you think that law enforcement is still trying to figure out jurisdiction? Federal or state?

I just hope it is determined adult court. Not juvenile. Maybe that is the issue with Federal jurisdiction and a juvenile defendant? I don't know much about that.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Well. That was interesting. Rhetorical question but who allows a person who is somehow involved in the killing of a sibling to be alone selling firewood in clear view of where media can snap a picture or speak to them or anyone one else could possibly harm him? I get that he might need something to do, but that is just out there to me and could have been quite dangerous for him, IMO.

Are they going to move him now?

 

[Megnut]

@Megnut do you think that law enforcement is still trying to figure out jurisdiction? Federal or state?

I just hope it is determined adult court. Not juvenile. Maybe that is the issue with Federal jurisdiction and a juvenile defendant? I don't know much about that.

I would guess that jurisdiction has been determined, but -- and this is always the hardest lesson of WS -- patience, Grasshopper; it's not JUST a matter of arrest. It's a matter of conviction. Don't arrest until you're ready to prosecute.

What might be hairy is that, for the initial 24+ hours following the discovery of AK, there was kind of NO jurisdiction.

How was the crime scene secured? How was the POI detained? What about any statements made? Miranda? Chain of custody?

IMO all those questions create Defense arguments for suppressing and/or challenging evidence.

As we learned from the OJ trial, knowing who commit a crime and successfully prosecuting it don't always meet in the middle.

I'm certain it's coming. IMO they're just taking absolute care to get it right.

JMO

 

[d4j]

All the more reason to keep him indoors under house arrest and not allowing him contact with n unsuspecting public buying firewood imo

Do posters feel there will be charges in this case

Perhaps there will be a plea bargain for involuntary manslaughter.

 

[su5ie]

Dbm

 

[Spectrix]

Perhaps there will be a plea bargain for involuntary manslaughter.

Involuntary manslaughter is causing someone's death without intending to kill or cause serious harm.
I'm not a lawyer, but I think the defence would have a really hard time disproving intent in this case.

Death by strangulation takes a long time.
To get to the point that the victim stops struggling and falls unconscious might take 20 - 30 seconds.
But to actually kill them, the assailant would need to keep on strangling the victim for a significant amount of time AFTER they fall unconscious, we're talking 4 - 6 minutes or more.

• "We were just playing sex games" or...
• "I just wanted to shut her up"

Has this kind of defence ever actually been accepted?

 

[mickey2942]

Involuntary manslaughter is causing someone's death without intending to kill or cause serious harm.
I'm not a lawyer, but I think the defence would have a really hard time disproving intent in this case.

Death by strangulation takes a long time.
To get to the point that the victim stops struggling and falls unconscious might take 20 - 30 seconds.
But to actually kill them, the assailant would need to keep on strangling the victim for a significant amount of time AFTER they fall unconscious, we're talking 4 - 6 minutes or more.

• "We were just playing sex games" or...
• "I just wanted to shut her up"

Has this kind of defence ever actually been accepted?

Yes. Jordan Neely, Penny just wanted to "calm him down". He didn't mean to kill him. There you go.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Involuntary manslaughter is causing someone's death without intending to kill or cause serious harm.
I'm not a lawyer, but I think the defence would have a really hard time disproving intent in this case.

Death by strangulation takes a long time.
To get to the point that the victim stops struggling and falls unconscious might take 20 - 30 seconds.
But to actually kill them, the assailant would need to keep on strangling the victim for a significant amount of time AFTER they fall unconscious, we're talking 4 - 6 minutes or more.

• "We were just playing sex games" or...
• "I just wanted to shut her up"

Has this kind of defence ever actually been accepted?

Again, I mention that we do not know if Anna was deceased when she was stuffed under the bed. She may have been unconscious and how she was put under the bed caused her demise. If he doesn't remember anything, he wouldn't remember if she was breathing or not at that point. (Mechanical strangulation can be caused by entrapment)

 

[Spectrix]

Again, I mention that we do not know if Anna was deceased when she was stuffed under the bed. She may have been unconscious and how she was put under the bed caused her demise.

Sooo... He strangled her just a little bit to shut her up, and then stuffed her under the bed and covered her with life jackets hoping that she'd wake up again?

 

[Greenestdays]

Sooo... He strangled her just a little bit to shut her up, and then stuffed her under the bed and covered her with life jackets hoping that she'd wake up again?

Or stuffed under the bed but soon noticed Anna wasn’t moving and then covered with life jackets?

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

Sooo... He strangled her just a little bit to shut her up, and then stuffed her under the bed and covered her with life jackets hoping that she'd wake up again?

It is my opinion if his intent were just to shut her up and not to kill her, TH could have placed a chokehold on Anna to stop her screaming. Then, he could have called for help and said that they were rough housing and he "accidentally" choked her. At this point, it would have been a "he said" "she said."

Of course, teenagers do not have fully developed brains to be able to think rationally and of the consequences.

That's why parents must show their children the right way to act and behave and talk to their children. I think most of us know the past of TH's and Anna's parents. Not very good role models, IMO. In fact, it is alleged that Chris put TH's older brother in a chokehold. This is the kind of behavior that TH saw as a response to AH's resistance to moving to a new home. So, perhaps, TH was just mimicking what he saw when Anna was resisting and fighting him?

Here's a short article about the teen brain: Content - Health Encyclopedia - University of Rochester Medical Center

JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

Sooo... He strangled her just a little bit to shut her up, and then stuffed her under the bed and covered her with life jackets hoping that she'd wake up again?

LE isn’t saying, indeed I can’t find it officially reported from the FBI that they are investigating Anna’s death as a homicide. Just because her cause of death was believed to have been manual strangulation doesn’t prove that she was murdered. Until it can be proven she was murdered, no one can charged with murdering her. Other than media sources which included the uncle, the ex-bf and various immediate family members, no official source has stated the 16 year old is a murder suspect, assuming he indeed is. All we can do is wait for an update. I assume LE is also awaiting toxicology reports so the final autopsy report can be completed.

This case sort of reminds me of the disappearance of the young Hawaiian women, Hannah Kobayashi. There was so much rumour and unofficial chatter in the media that people were convinced something occurred that didn’t happen. I don’t think it’s right that the public can be influenced so easily, via herd mentality.

Without any official word or updates from LE, IMO we don’t know enough of the facts of the case to know much of anything. I can appreciate my opinion is not popular and that’s okay.
JMO

 

[Arkay]

LE isn’t saying, indeed I can’t find it officially reported from the FBI that they are investigating Anna’s death as a homicide. Just because her cause of death was believed to have been manual strangulation doesn’t prove that she was murdered. Until it can be proven she was murdered, no one can charged with murdering her. Other than media sources which included the uncle, the ex-bf and various immediate family members, no official source has stated the 16 year old is a murder suspect, assuming he indeed is. All we can do is wait for an update. I assume LE is also awaiting toxicology reports so the final autopsy report can be completed.

This case sort of reminds me of the disappearance of the young Hawaiian women, Hannah Kobayashi. There was so much rumour and unofficial chatter in the media that people were convinced something occurred that didn’t happen. I don’t think it’s right that the public can be influenced so easily, via herd mentality.

Without any official word or updates from LE, IMO we don’t know enough of the facts of the case to know much of anything. I can appreciate my opinion is not popular and that’s okay.
JMO

I respect everyone’s opinion, but personally I do not agree with this theory.

IMO I would be hard-pressed to see this as anything but murder. If it were suicide, there’s no way that Anna could have strangled herself without some kind of tool, because the living body will attempt to breathe, regardless.

And she wouldn’t easily be able to shove herself under the bed and then cover herself with a blanket and then life preservers atop that.

If your meaning is that TH did not have the INTENT of killing her, that may perhaps be true, but his concealment shows consciousness of guilt.

As to Hannah, I remember that case very well. It was apparent very quickly that there were multiple contradictions while she was “missing,” and of course the vital difference is that Hannah is alive and Anna is dead.

JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

Sooo... He strangled her just a little bit to shut her up, and then stuffed her under the bed and covered her with life jackets hoping that she'd wake up again?

That's an interesting take. I am going by past cases I have followed. And I did mispost. She died of mechanical ASPHYXIATION (not strangulation) so any of these things might have happened.
She was strangled completely to death.
She was strangled to unconsciousness, thought to be dead, stuffed under the bed, and died by positional asphyxia.
She was knocked unconscious, thought to be dead and stuffed under the bed and died by positional asphyxia.
She was either of the above two but not thought to be dead, just stuffed there until she "woke up" (magical thinking). Didn't want to have to look at her.
A weird one would be if he stuffed her under the bed and the thrashing was her trying to get out, but he sat on the bed making it impossible for her to get out, and she died of a crossbar sitting on her neck. He didn't realize it would kill her, so then stuffed the life jackets over her when he realized she was dead.
Or second weird one is that SHE crawled under the bed trying to escape something, and he sat on the bed so she could not get out and she died of a crossbar sitting on her neck.

My entire point is that being stuffed under the bed, she might have still been alive but expired due to how she was positioned. And that might have happened in minutes. That was all. It didn't HAVE to be a long strangulation struggle. It could have been less long strangulation part of the struggle to her demise depending on the conditions of her death. JMO, based on other cases where positional asphyxiation was the detailed COD.

ETA: when I say "strangled", I only mean a person purposely tried to cut off her air in some way, which includes pressing an arm against her neck, pushing her neck against a ladder rung or edge of a counter, etc.

 

[MistyWaters]

I respect everyone’s opinion, but personally I do not agree with this theory.

IMO I would be hard-pressed to see this as anything but murder. If it were suicide, there’s no way that Anna could have strangled herself without some kind of tool, because the living body will attempt to breathe, regardless.

And she wouldn’t easily be able to shove herself under the bed and then cover herself with a blanket and then life preservers atop that.

If your meaning is that TH did not have the INTENT of killing her, that may perhaps be true, but his concealment shows consciousness of guilt.

As to Hannah, I remember that case very well. It was apparent very quickly that there were multiple contradictions while she was “missing,” and of course the vital difference is that Hannah is alive and Anna is dead.

JMO

I don’t think we’d want anyone to be charged or convicted for murder without evidence, just because popular opinion derived mainly from SM suggests otherwise? If/when an official statement comes from LE announcing formal charges I’m willing to change my mind.

Agreed Hannah was indeed not murdered even though many believed so, and yes Anna is dead but that alone does not prove her death was caused by murder. Both instances are examples of opinions running rampant on total speculation instead of fact-based official LE sources.
JMO

 

[Spectrix]

Yes. Jordan Neely, Penny just wanted to "calm him down". He didn't mean to kill him. There you go.

Touché! That is a fascinating case. It seems that a train full of people agreed that Jordan Neely needed to calm down for the safety of everyone else aboard and that Daniel Penny was justified in his response.

I wonder if a cruise liner full of people will attest that TH was justified in what he did to Anna Kepner?

That's an interesting take. I am going by past cases I have followed. And I did mispost. She died of mechanical ASPHYXIATION (not strangulation) so any of these things might have happened.
She was strangled completely to death.
She was strangled to unconsciousness, thought to be dead, stuffed under the bed, and died by positional asphyxia.
She was knocked unconscious, thought to be dead and stuffed under the bed and died by positional asphyxia.
She was either of the above two but not thought to be dead, just stuffed there until she "woke up" (magical thinking). Didn't want to have to look at her.
A weird one would be if he stuffed her under the bed and the thrashing was her trying to get out, but he sat on the bed making it impossible for her to get out, and she died of a crossbar sitting on her neck. He didn't realize it would kill her, so then stuffed the life jackets over her when he realized she was dead.
Or second weird one is that SHE crawled under the bed trying to escape something, and he sat on the bed so she could not get out and she died of a crossbar sitting on her neck.

My entire point is that being stuffed under the bed, she might have still been alive but expired due to how she was positioned. And that might have happened in minutes. That was all. It didn't HAVE to be a long strangulation struggle. It could have been less long strangulation part of the struggle to her demise depending on the conditions of her death. JMO, based on other cases where positional asphyxiation was the detailed COD.

ETA: when I say "strangled", I only mean a person purposely tried to cut off her air in some way, which includes pressing an arm against her neck, pushing her neck against a ladder rung or edge of a counter, etc.

Gosh, thank you, I really appreciate the detailed response.
I have to hand it to you - even if unlikely these are all plausible scenarios and it's certainly food for thought.

 

[Ghostwheel]

My guess is that they still have test results and information they are waiting on. From the scene and body, maybe from the suspect. They have to figure out if it murder, manslaughter, accidental death, etc along with whatever other charges. And how that all fits into what jurisdiction it belongs in. This cannot be easy.

 

[Kakidoll]

My mind has been going to the same things at this point. I'm thinking whatever he did he did to keep her quiet or in a 'fight' that got out of hand. And she was unconscious, maybe he saw bruises already and knew he screwed up and tried to 'hide' what he did. Its the common theme everywhere it seems. Hide the 'baby' you didn't know you were pregnant with, hide the child you killed.... I call it the Casey Anthony defense. Hopefully they won't be able to find enough evidence. This 'kid' didn't think it thru, obviously. Had he done it at home and dragged her to the woods etc, could have taken a lot longer to find. I don't think he expected the cabin steward to find her so fast and possibly thought they'd be off the ship before she was found. Some people have no idea how it works on ships with tracking people. And many do 'disappear' from ships. Some by choice, some by nefarious methods.

I'm not going with a murder charge, manslaughter perhaps, but i'm starting to think they know it will be an uphill battle with his age, international waters, drinking, family right there, and its will be accidental death by neglect, manslaughter, and mental distress/drug issues. Not that i agree. And i do think a 16 yr old SHOULD be charged as an adult in most circumstances. BUT you have way too many people that want to press for adult charges on some 16 yr olds then others that vigorously defend them as being a CHILD and not understanding or developed. Until we have more REAL answers, its all just guessing at this point.