GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #1

[janx]

From experience: Substance abuse tends to go hand-hand with mental illness and insanity.

Indeed it does--depression in particular.

 

[YESorNO]

I don't recall if this article has been posted before. It gives a good deal of background to Julie's previous life:

http://www.wfla.com/story/25351804/...cker-mother-on-trial-for-murder-tampa-florida

 

[YESorNO]

This is what I have found this weekend from various news articles about the jurors. Hope there is more on them in the future.:

The 12 jurors and four alternates include seven women and nine men, three of whom are African-American. About half of the jurors have children.

(Jurors will have to decide which side of Schenecker, 53, is closest to the truth: an upper middle-class soccer mom who killed her children after planning the shootings for at least several days, or a woman who struggled with profound mental illness for decades and didn't know what she was doing.)

-The strawberry farmer

-divorced father of three

- man who said he was one credit away from a degree in criminal justice

- a grandmother who draws patients' blood at a local hospital

- a Hills*borough Area Regional Transit bus driver with a daughter

- a U.S. Postal Service worker who told attorneys: "I firmly believe in the insanity defense."

http://tbo.com/news/crime/experts-insanity-defense-may-be-iffy-20140427/

That's all I could find, so far.

 

[YESorNO]

Medical examiner, psychiatrists, law enforcement & person who sold Schenecker the gun

The defense said its witnesses include Parker Schenecker, Dr. Eldra Solomon, Ph.D., Dr. Michael Maher, M.D., Dr. Wade Myers, M.D., Daniel Buffington, PharmD, MBA, all of Tampa, and Dr. Harry Krop of Gainesville. (info from wfla)

http://www.wfla.com/story/24419681/scheneckers-trial-set-for-april

 

[YESorNO]

Defense:

-his client was legally insane when she shot her 16-year-old daughter, Calyx, and son, Beau, 13, and that her medications were responsible for some of her disorientation on that January 2011 day

-Julie Schenecker's attorneys partially blame Parker Schenecker- back to the early 1990's, he says Julie started with her mental health problems. She struggled with drug and alcohol abuse, went to rehab, and a mental institution. Atty. Sullivan says Parker was obviously well aware of that, even sending out an email to family members two weeks before Beau and Calyx were killed, claiming Julie has the judgment of a 10-year-old.
Given all that, Sullivan claims Parker never should have left her alone to take care of the two kids. "At a period when she was perhaps at the very worst she'd ever been, he just left the country and took zero action to have anybody around to look after the children, and to look after Ms. Schenecker," Sullivan said.

-The burden in this case lies with the defense. They will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Schenecker was so mentally ill at the time of the murders that she had no way of understanding that killing her children was wrong.
If defense attorneys prevail by using the insanity plea, the judge in the case could remand Schenecker to a mental hospital where she would stay until such time she is no longer a danger to herself or to others.

-------------------------------------------------------
Prosecution:

-Prosecutors have told the defense that they will not seek a death sentence if Julie Schenecker is convicted of murder- the overwhelming evidence of mental health issues would make a death sentence unlikely to withstand the scrutiny of the Florida Supreme Court

-Prosecutors believe it is going to be difficult for defense attorneys to prove that Schenecker was insane and did not know that what she was doing was wrong because of the way she acted in the days leading up to the murders. Five days before the murders, Schenecker purchased a handgun.
However, she was not able to take possession of the pistol until after the mandatory three-day waiting period for buying a gun had passed, meaning she had to return to the gun shop a second time to pick up the .38-caliber firearm, which suggests premeditation.
---------------------------------------------
Judge:

-testimony about an allegation that she slapped her daughter and, separately, crashed her car in 2010 while reportedly drunk and high on the painkiller OxyContin won't be heard by jurors.

-granted a defense motion to exclude testimony on the two incidents because they are "too remote to be relevant," said Assistant Public Defender Charles Traina. But Battles also left room to change his mind. According to Traina, the judge's order said that if any of the mental health experts who will testify in the case used either of those events to reach a conclusion about Schenecker's state of mind, he might change his ruling.

(Prosecutors had argued for the inclusion of testimony about an allegation that Schenecker slapped her daughter Calyx in 2010 during an argument about what the teenager had purchased at a store, saying it was an example of her deteriorating relationship with her daughter.)


(from various articles:

Tampa Channel 10 News, Tampa Bay, Sarasota
Star Telegram , TAMPA, Fla.
WFA News 8 Tampa
Tampa Bay Times
TBO- Tampa Tribune)

 

[YESorNO]

Police statement:

http://www.baynews9.com/content/dam...2014/04/schenecker-police-statements-0422.pdf

Col. Parker Schenecker memorial service speech for his murdered children:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlxPeNHuaes

Video of Julie Schenecker, a New Tampa mom accused of murdering her children, being transported from police headquarters to Orient Road Jail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7urL-aXAUc

Emails: http://tbo.com/assets/pdf/TB48127.PDF

Julie Schenecker is arraigned in a Tampa courtroom for the murders of her children:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKiPqAvGEyI

(from Court Chatter)

 

[Queen Bee]

oh my goodness at the research you have done yesorno!

from one queen to another........my sincerest thanks :loveyou:

looking forward to following this starting monday:seeya:

 

[YESorNO]

Audio recordings in Schenecker arrest:

-The audio recordings give a clearer picture of the mental state Schenecker was in at the time of her arrest.

Detective: We want to find out what happened yesterday, what happened last night, what happened this morning, from you, yourself.
Schenecker: Yeah. Are my kids coming later?
Detective: I'm sorry?
Schenecker: Are my kids coming later?
Detective: We'll talk about all that.
Schenecker told detectives that she had been in bed for the past eight days, and had drank several glass of beer and wine the night before.
Detective: You take a lot of medications right?
Schenecker: Oh my god. 10 or 12.
Detective: 10 or 12 meds?
Schenecker says she had picked up her son Beau from soccer practice that day then turned around and had to pick up her daughter Calyx from track practice.
Schenecker: Are you leaving the kids where they lay?

During the interview, detectives kept asking Schenecker if she was ok. She said she was shaky telling them she didn't want to go to court.

"First of all, I want to get out of here," she says.

Audio @ http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/crime/2014/04/08/audio-recordings-julie-schenecker/7479001/
--
-"She did appear to be either tried or intoxicated, but there was nothing medically – there didn't appear to be anything medically wrong with her," said Detective Gary Sandel.

The recordings contain more than 30 minutes of her conversation with the detectives, an interview that ranged from questions about whether she was taking her medications to inquiries about her decade-long military career as a Russian linguist and interrogator.

"I'll talk," she told detectives Stephen Prebich and Gary Sandel.
Had she been threatened or coerced to say the things she was saying?

"No . . . Yes." The detective repeated the question. "No," she replied.

She had spent the last eight weeks in bed, she told the detectives. She was taking lithium and as many as 10 other medications, the names of which she struggled to pronounce. She was bipolar, she said.

-Det. Gary Sandel testified she wasn’t extremely emotional.

“She got upset a few times,” he said. “For the most part, it was just her eyes welling up.”

The detectives read her her rights.

“You have the right to remain silent, do you understand that?”
“Yeah!” she exclaimed.
Anything she said could be used against her in a court of law.
“I don’t want to go to court,” she said. “Should I get a lawyer?”
Let us finish, a detective responded. “It’s up to you whether or not you want a lawyer.”
"It's up to you whether or not you want an attorney," Prebich told her. "I should have paid attention to all the squeaks in the chairs," Schenecker responded, apparently referring to the chair she was sitting in, which, the detectives later agreed, was squeaky.

"Most of the questions that were asked of her, she was pretty specific with the answers," Sandel said- she seemed lucid.

In what could be a crucial piece of evidence, Tampa police Detective Sonja McCaughey said Tuesday that she overheard Schenecker spontaneously confessing to the murders while McCaughey was monitoring her in a holding cell. She said Schenecker also commented on the food and clothing at police headquarters. "She didn't like the cookie I gave her. She said she didn't like chocolate,” McCaughey said. “I told her I could get her some oatmeal cookies and later when we were changing her clothes she told me she didn't like orange."

“I just talked to my kids,” the defendant said as she sat in a holding cell. McCaughey testified she sat with the defendant in a holding cell for almost an hour before Shenecker was interviewed by detectives.

"I shot them," McCaughey said Schenecker announced, directing the comment to no one in particular. "I was going to shoot myself, but I fell asleep."

Schenecker told police she was tired of her children talking back.

A detective guided her on completing a form relating to her desire to talk to investigators about what happened.

“I can do that,” she said. “Finish all that?”

“How long have you been — you got it? Right there,” the detective coached her regarding the form. “Right there. OK. That’s good enough.”
“Are my kids coming in later?” Schenecker asked.
“What?”
“Are my kids coming in later?”
“We’ll talk about that. What happened yesterday? Did you pick the kids up from school?”
“Monday, Wednesday, Friday is my day,” Schenecker responded, explaining she was referring to the carpool.

She does say she takes 10 or 12 medications and that she had been drinking beer and wine the night before. She says she’s diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

She also says she worked in military intelligence as an interrogator who interviewed Russian defectors before leaving the service in 1993 or 1994 and that she met her husband while both were serving in Germany.

“Parker Schenecker. He’s great,” she blurts out.

 

[YESorNO]

Police:

-Police say shortly before 8 a.m. Friday, 1/28/11, they got a call from Schenecker's mother in Texas, concerned that her daughter sounded depressed.

When officers arrived, they say Schenecker was in the back yard, covered with blood. A search warrant says when officers arrived at the Schenecker's Ashington Reserve home, they found the mother, Julie, unconscious on the porch. Her white robe was covered in dried blood. Inside the house police say Julie left a note detailing why she killed her kids.

They found Julie inside the home, she reeked of alcohol, could hardly stand up, and was mumbling incoherently. They asked if she had hurt herself. “I wish a scratch was the reason for this blood,” she said, according to Noble.
They asked where the children were, and Schenecker said they were inside. They testified they asked if they could look, and she agreed.

Calling for the children and hearing movement he didn’t then know was actually the cat, he went upstairs. He saw a desk with blood on the floor next to the chair.

In the master bathroom, they found 15 bullets and five casings. In the master bedroom, they found more bullets in a Smith and Wesson box with an instruction manual - found a loaded revolver on the dresser of her bedroom

- found Calyx on the bed, covered in a blanket. She’d been shot in the back of the head and near the mouth.

-The officers went into the garage. Inside the family van, on the front passenger seat was Beau, wrapped in a blanket. He also had been shot in the side of the head and near the mouth.

Schenecker was inside seated on the couch. “Who called you?” she asked the police, according to Noble. “Where is my gun? I would like to use it on myself. Did you find my kids?”

She told them Beau was in the van and Calyx was in bed. “My husband is going to be so distraught.” She wanted a cigarette.
--
Police say it was Thursday night when Julie Schenecker, 50, shot her 13-year-old son Beau right around the time he was supposed to be at soccer practice. They say she fired a shot through the windshield of their SUV before she killed him, then left his body in the car in the garage. She then allegedly went upstairs to her 16-year-old daughter's bedroom, where she shot Calyx while she was doing homework at her computer. Schenecker moved her daughter's body to the bed.

Both children shot twice in the head, both bodies wrapped with blankets
"She did tell us that they talked back, that they were mouthy," says Laura McElroy with TPD.

-Tampa police say their mother, 50-year-old Julie Schenecker, confessed to shooting and killing them at their home at 16305 Royal Park Circle which is in the gated community of Ashington Reserve. Investigators say Beau's body was found in a SUV in the garage while Calyx was found in an upstairs bedroom. Officers at the scene found the boy still in the passenger seat, with his seat belt on.

Police found a letter that mentioned the three-day waiting period to take a gun home would "delay the massacre."

- the gun, a 38 caliber Smith & Wesson , that police say she used in the murders: New interviews released show she bought the weapon less than a week beforehand, and told the store owners there had been a number of home invasion robberies in the neighborhood recently and she wanted protection.

-The officers testified there were two notes posted on the front door, both signed Julie. One was addressed to “friends” and the other to the carpool. “We all went to NYC. Be back Tuesday.”

-Investigators took 567 prescription pills from her home and two empty painkiller bottles. A friend told police that Schenecker suffered from tardive dyskinesia, a disorder that comes from long-term or high-dose anti-psychotic drug use.

-Det. Gary Sandel testified she wasn’t extremely emotional.
“She got upset a few times,” he said. “For the most part, it was just her eyes welling up.”
The detectives read her her rights.
“You have the right to remain silent, do you understand that?”
“Yeah!” she exclaimed.
Anything she said could be used against her in a court of law.
“I don’t want to go to court,” she said. “Should I get a lawyer?”
Let us finish, a detective responded. “It’s up to you whether or not you want a lawyer.”

(from various news articles-
Tampa Channel 10 News, Tampa Bay, Sarasota
Star Telegram , TAMPA, Fla.
WFA News 8 Tampa
Tampa Bay Times
TBO- Tampa Tribune)

 

[YESorNO]

Background:

*Julie Powers Schenecker:

-was born in Muscatine, Iowa to parents Pat and Jim Powers - grew up playing sports all through school and even into college. She played volleyball for the University of Northern Iowa. After graduating from college, she joined the Army and became a Russian linguist stationed in Munich Germany. While there, she met and married Colonel Parker Schenecker in the late 80s, and a few years later, she left the service.

As a military family, they moved around and at the time of the killings, Col. Schenecker was stationed in Tampa, Florida. However, he had been deployed to the Middle East only a few weeks before his wife was to take the lives of their two teenage children.

-lived in a gated Ashington Reserve subdivision in New Tampa (Tampa Palms )
-never missed a soccer game
-They did not live near any family members and neighbors didn't know them very well

-Julie, and her now ex-husband, Parker were in counseling shortly before the killings. Their marriage had been less than ideal for some time. Sixteen-year-old Caylx was also receiving counseling. In emails between Julie and Parker, Julie complains about Caylx's attitude and disrespect. It appears that Parker sides with his daughter against his wife.

-Caylx had become more angry with her mom as Julie appeared to be spiraling out of control.

-she had battled depression, drugs, and alcohol for more than 10 years and had recently been in a rehab facility- She also suffered from bipolar disorder and Schizophrenia

-has a long history of mental illness- In the early 1990s, she was diagnosed with depression and treated with medication. From 1997 to 2001, she was medicated daily except for when she was pregnant and nursing, records show.
-in the early 90s, she was diagnosed with severe depression. From 1997 to 2001, Schenecker was prescribed a regime of daily medications to combat the symptoms of her depression. On top of having severe depression, she was then diagnosed as being bipolar and having a schizoaffective disorder.

-In 2001, she suffered a debilitating bout of depression and was hospitalized for nine months. Documents also show that she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, schizo-affective disorder and severe depression.

-The family was in counseling about a month before the killings

-Schenecker says in email that she has Tardive Dyskinesia (Tardive dyskinesia-is a difficult-to-treat and often incurable form of dyskinesia, a disorder resulting in involuntary, repetitive body movements; is often misdiagnosed as a mental illness rather than a neurological disorder; may result primarily from neuroleptic-induced dopamine supersensitivity in the nigrostriatal pathway; the only approved drug for treating tardive dyskinesia and other movement disorders is tetrabenazine, which is a dopamine depleting drug; primary prevention of tardive dyskinesia is achieved by using the lowest effective dose of a neuroleptic for the shortest time; If tardive dyskinesia is diagnosed, the causative drug should be discontinued; may persist after withdrawal of the drug for months, years or even permanently; most commonly occurs in patients with psychiatric conditions who are treated with antipsychotic medications for many years; can be socially disabling, perhaps in addition to the underlying psychiatric disorder, and may cause inflicted patients to isolate themselves; It also tremendously increase the risk of dysmorphophobia (is a chronic mental illness, a somatoform disorder, wherein the afflicted individual is concerned with body image, manifested as excessive concern about and preoccupation with a perceived defect of their physical appearance) and sometimes, that can lead the patient to commit suicide. Stressful events can also trigger the onset of dyskinetic movements, whereas relaxation and sedation reduce the severity of symptoms in patients.

-traffic accident report from November, where Schenecker was cited for careless driving after hitting a vehicle on Fowler Avenue. According to the traffic report, Schenecker "showed signs of drug impairment including dilated pupils with no reaction to light, [and] mush-mouthed speech." Schenecker was injured in the accident and transported to the hospital with no further field sobriety tests given. She was discharged before a blood test could be administered and was only charged with one count of careless driving.

After this incident, Julie checked herself into a rehabilitation center. Julie did not want to be there and shortly after checked herself out. From that point on, Julie remained in bed most of the time. She told police in her interview that she had been in bed for eight weeks. In emails from Parker to Julie's family he complains about her not getting out of bed.

-shot her son two times in the head because he back talked her on the way to soccer practice. She then returned home where she shot her daughter in the face as she sat studying on the computer. Following the murders, she e-mailed her mother, which prompted her to call the Sheriff’s department and officers were dispatched to the scene.

-After the killings, Schenecker wrote an email to Parker where she mentions that they are all waiting for him to come home.

-Julie's family is not supporting her. When I asked if Julie's family want to see her succeed in her plea of insanity, Wendy said, "they want to see her in jail for life". (according to friend, Wendy) ( member of Schenecker's defense team contacted me [Court Chatter] to say that Julie's family is in the courtroom every day and is fully supporting her. )

-Julie's ex-husband Parker, also sits in the courtroom each day wearing a bracelet with Caylx's and Beau's names. The Powers family are very close to Parker's family. After Pat and Jim retired, they moved to Texas where they live in close proximity to their daughter's now ex-inlaws.

- could be given the sentence of life in prison without possibility of parole

-she's assigned to the medical unit of the jail, where's she gets treatment for her mental illness. Deputies say she has a cell to herself, so she's not grouped in with the rest of the inmates

-Children

- daughter Calyx,
a 10th grade track and field star at King High School

("She was an excellent student and Calyx was in the IB program and part of the International Baccalaureate program. She made great grades - popular young lady -she was enthusiastic. She was on the cross country team, speech and debate. A little group of them were getting together to start like a Harry Potter club."-described as the ideal student and one who loved life.- a good big sister to her 13-year old brother Beau. She was a model student, published artist and tenacious cross country and track athlete.)

Calyx, told a counselor that her mother had hit her in the face. The report also said the girl was seeing a counselor "for verbal abuse towards her mom." The teen told officers that her mother struck her several times. Several months prior to the murders, Schenecker’s daughter, Calyx called the Police Department and reported an incident where her mother had struck her. Although police officers investigated the claims, the case was closed because no visible marks were found on the 16-year-old.

Her daughter was driving and J.Schenecker was the passenger. She advised she looked in thebag to see what her daughter had purchased and her daughter stated "stayout of my business". Her daughter then stated "you're disgusting" and "you're not my parent". J. Schenecker became upset and then backhanded herdaughter in the face 3 times.

(report here: http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtsp/pdfs/2011/schenecker-abuse-report.pdf )

She has been seeing a counselor for 3 weeks now for verbal abuse towards her mom

-also claimed about a month to a month and a half ago her mom hither in the mouth in the car for something she said and caused it to bleed but never said anything about it, said she was never hit like this before. She is usually disciplined by getting her privileges and her belongings taken away from her. No one else was present to see her get hit my her mom.

Her daughter advised her she made her lip bleed, although J. Schenecker stated she did not see any blood. J. Schenecker advised her daughter's behavior has changed in the past yearas she believes it is due to her attending King High School. She stated they have been attending counseling at the Children's Crisis Center off of Bearss Av for approximately 3 weeks.
The victim's mother admitted to popping her daughter in the mouth for her back talking, she has had to increase her level of discipline since her daughter no longer responds to her privileges being confiscated. (according to above report)
------------------
13-year-old Beau, an eighth grader at Liberty Middle

("He was a wonderful kid, well-liked, played soccer."

-Husband-

Army Colonel Parker Schenecker
* Colonel Parker Schenecker:

-working intelligence in Qatar- at the time of the killings, he was attached to U.S. Central Command in Tampa; he's now retired from the military and is working; he's busy raising money for the kids' foundation

-was a career military officer and the family moved around. At the time of the killings, he was attached to U.S. Central Command in Tampa. He had been deployed to the Middle East a few weeks before the killings happened

- filed a wrongful death lawsuit against her

-divorced Julie, May 19th, 2011 -the division of property and assets, which he estimates is valued at more than $3 million. Despite the accusations that she murdered their children, she is still entitled to half of the assets under Florida law and alimony. The court now retains jurisdiction over the assets. Julie Schenecker does not have access to their assets, so she is being represented by a public defender in the murder case against her. That will all change if she is awarded her share. By law, the public defender will have to drop her because they are only reserved for those who cannot afford private counsel.

-has a civil wrongful death lawsuit filed against her by Parker, on behalf of their children.

(from various articles:
Tampa Channel 10 News, Tampa Bay, Sarasota
Star Telegram , TAMPA, Fla.
WFA News 8 Tampa
Tampa Bay Times
TBO- Tampa Tribune
Court Chatter- http://www.courtchatter.com/p/julie.html )

 

[YESorNO]

Well, that's all I have found for my files and to get ready for this trial. This will be the first "insanity" trial for me, so I felt I had to do my homework.

Does anyone have anything that I may have missed?

Have a good night. :seeya:

 

[YESorNO]

oh my goodness at the research you have done yesorno!

from one queen to another........my sincerest thanks :loveyou:

looking forward to following this starting monday:seeya:

I love research and I like to be prepared. :floorlaugh:

:websleuther:

:judge:

:goldcrown:

:Crown:

 

[Spellbound]

Super big help, YESorNO. Wonderful of you to gather all this into one place. It will be my best point of reference.

:tyou:

 

[Nymeria]

Well, that's all I have found for my files and to get ready for this trial. This will be the first "insanity" trial for me, so I felt I had to do my homework.

Does anyone have anything that I may have missed?

Have a good night. :seeya:

*BBM*
Good Gawd NO

YoN, I think you should go to AZ and overhaul their court system.
They need someone who is dedicated to GETTING **** DONE!

:tyou:

 

[turaj]

Yes or No...thanks so much for all the info..can't imagine you missed anything. One thing that really stuck out was the recounting of that day before and the email sent to her parents. I'm not in this position but frankly I cannot for the life of me imagine going to sleep that night after reading that and not until the next morning doing a "welfare check"????? I think Julie was giving so many calls for help and should have had some sort of intervention long before this happened. If you read the situation in that home when Parker took off my opinion is living with this for so long his decision making process with respect to what she could or could not be capable of was really flawed. Really looking forward to his testimony but if the defense is calling him and wants to blame him is he not going to be what they deem a "hostile witness" or is it expected that he will want to take the blame? I'm confused on this.

 

[YESorNO]

*BBM*
Good Gawd NO

YoN, I think you should go to AZ and overhaul their court system.
They need someone who is dedicated to GETTING **** DONE!

:tyou:

AZ. :desert: No, too hot for me. :floorlaugh:

But I'm a "Just Do It" person and need to get-all-my-ducks-in-a-row (but

don't call me "anal" or rinces:. :floorlaugh. I was much better at

organization when I was younger. I have become very forgetful in my old age :facepalm:,

so I need to have everything spelled out now in black and white (think loads

of post-it notes :floorlaugh to understand what the heck needs to be

done everyday. It's gets to be tedious :sheesh:, especially when I forget to

actually look at the post-its. :scared:

I'm not as good as some of the WSers here. I just marveled at all the stuff they found on the missy :jail: trial and what they remembered. There was sooooo much on that trial -couldn't keep all the info straight.

I'll tell you a funny thing. All the info I found, I put on my Word file and when the computer asked me to "save", I told it to "save", and I titled it Julie Schn. File[/I]. All good- right? Well, I had another open Word file, underneath the JS file that I had forgotten about, so when I clicked that to be saved, I titled it Julie Schn. File, BUT it wasn't a JS file- just another file that I wanted to save!!! (I got confused and thought the computer was stupid :floorlaugh The computer had asked if I wanted to "override" the other file name - that I thought was the JS file- and I said "yes"- of course, you stupid computer, you. :facepalm: When I went back to the JS file later on, I realized what had happened because every time I tried to open the file, it was the other file (and I thought the computer was stupid!! :floorlaugh. I had lost all the info I compiled on JS. :scared:

Anyway, all the stuff I posted on the JS trial was all the stuff I had to do over because I had lost the original stuff with my stupidity. :scared: I had to go through all the articles again. :findinglink:

I was so mad at myself. :bang:

So much for organization. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Nymeria]

I had lost all the info I compiled on JS. :scared:

*Respectfully Snipped*

OMG I would have gone absolutely apepoop if that had happened to me :tantrum:

Here's to you YoN :cheers:

 

[Chelly]

For Jule, I think living in her own skin was hell for her......just my opinion.

 

[Nymeria]

For Jule, I think living in her own skin was hell for her......just my opinion.

I agree.
And I don't want to sound cold (but this is going to sound cold!)...
I wish she would have dealt with HERSELF instead of taking the children.
If you know what I mean....

(Still tragic, but 2 young lives could still be lived).

 

[zoey]

I agree.
And I don't want to sound cold (but this is going to sound cold!)...
I wish she would have dealt with HERSELF instead of taking the children.
If you know what I mean....

(Still tragic, but 2 young lives could still be lived).

I agree