GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #1

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  • #121
So if she used to work in the CIA she would almost certainly have had a security clearance, as was mentioned before. Those do require extensive background checks and investigation, dependent on the level.

One other thing, though, is that you have to divulge your medical records, including any psychiatric records or counseling. I hold a security clearance and have been in counseling before for general anxiety. It did make me a little uneasy about how I was giving them rights to those records, and to talking to my counselor. Part of it was privacy issues, and part of it was wondering how it would be looked at by investigators. Would it jeopardize my chance of getting a clearance?

My point is that I can see this sort of thought process leading a person to think that they shouldn't seek counseling or other treatment for mental illness, for fear it would jeopardize their job through loss of a needed security clearance. The alternative is there's a problem is to avoid treatment, and that can be dangerous in some cases.

Sort of like how for years pilots weren't allowed to take any type of psychiatric medicine, period. What you ended up were some pilots who lied and tried to cover usage up, or some who would have benefited from mild medication for anxiety or depression, say, who avoided it precisely because seeking the treatment they needed would lead to an end of their career.
 
  • #122
Thanks again Pensfan. This horrific case has really gotten to me and I am consumed with trying to understand the unimaginable.

Please share any other insights & thoughts that you have. Like- if the bizarre movements we saw on the video were due to a single large dose of Thorazine (or some other drug to subdue her), would that have landed her in the ICU ?
 
  • #123
Ok this is a continuance of the thread mom killed kids for being mouthy....I was afraid ppl would quit reading that thread and not read/respond to what I have to say...I am sure the threads will be combined which is great but hopefully a few eyes will see this first...
Let me say first and foremost NO child should be killed for ANY reason....but next let me tell you something from the otherside, and how laws (at least in my part of GA) are enabling teens to get away with EVERYTHING BUT A FELONY...and how parents get pushed to the breaking point (not the killer point though!)
My-then-14-yr old step-daughter came to live with us full time about 3 yrs ago...she had been raised by her grandma since she was 2. Hubby had her EVERY weekend, her mom had no custody whatsoever.
She was a great girl, did great in school, etc...but then started running away, doing drugs, suddenly grandma doesn't want her anymore....
So we take her in...does great for awhile, then the crap starts in...skipping school, smoking pot and cigs, sneaking out at night, getting "home-made" tattoos behind our backs from teenage boys, piercing her own lip, sex with multiple, and I do mean multiple boys...she would look us dead in our face and say "F*ck you" things of that nature...found a note she had wrote in her room about torturing ppl and getting turned on by it...was even doing more scary things esp. since we had a newborn in the house...
We BEGGED for help everywhere we could turn...school, cops, courts, etc...when the cops came for more things than I even wrote about she would instantly scream she felt suicidal...she knew that meant an automatic trip to the ER suicide watch and her dad would have to be there...sometimes more than 24 hrs which meant he had to stay up all night THEN go to work...she would even admit she would lie about the suicide just to stay out of trouble...even admitted it to cops in my own prescense, but once she said those words, it was over....she would then be sent to a mental health place that would NEVER, and I mean NOT once keep her over 7 days because of "insurance."
Then the story would start all over again.
Sometimes when we would call the cops they would "lock her up for 4 hrs" which was the max they could...which always made my hubby get up in the middle of the night (it was always nighttime) to go get her a$$...
at one point for all her crap she was put on "probation" for which my hubby had to pay the monthly fine and she was ordered a "tour of the jail" which cost another $25...something else for my hubby to pay.
I could go on and on and on....the point I want to make is that sometimes parents DO ask for help, and theis is the kinda crap we get...I have no idea what this woman did or did not do or if she asked for help or not...
Just thought I would give a view from the otherside who begged for help and never got it.
Time and time again my step-d committed "mis-demeanors" which would have an ordinary adult under arrest for....As a teen thanks to new laws in GA she can do anything and go free as long as its not a felony.

White Rain,

Please know I am so very sorry to hear of the pain for your family including your SD. Family dynamics is tough no matter what socio economic background.

In all honesty I had read that Calyx was back talking her mom and the supposed words she said. Trust me that brought me back a little. When the person you raised, fed, clothed, educated, and most importantly love unconditionally gets a smart mouth it could throw you for a loop. So, I could say "Well I could see why the lady snapped short of killing this child". However, no normal functioning human being goes shooting a person let alone their own child. Again, I get it is awful. I get how it can rip a family apaprt the teen angst. I also get how the poor teen is full of angst. After all we're the parents. We should know how to cope.

In the case of this family they did go to Al-Anon and they were in counseling. It's coming out now that mom did have a drug/alcohol problem. JMO, but she had way more problems than that for sure.

WR, and I am not negating what you have gone through, but again just me. If I was a young girl and my gram got tired of raising me and my mom had no contact and suddenly I was thrust into a new family dynamic and couple that with regular teen angst I probably would have done half of what your SD has done.

Not saying this is your fault. The middle of the night stuff. It stinks, but it's a parents job. That's what parenting is about. I hope your SD gets the help she needs and your family finds some peace.

In the case of Calyx and Beau I don't think any of that went on. Star athletes. Good grades. It just goes to show that such horrific things can happen to any family including one that appears by all means on the outside to be perfect.
 
  • #124
Yes, it can. Years ago, I worked in a psych hospital ER and we were getting a large number of people being referred or coming in because they were having these odd symptoms. They were experiencing extrapyramidal symptom but they weren't prescribed antipsychotic meds. We discovered that some local drug dealer was selling 5mg and 10 mg Haldol tablets as Valium. :eek:
I have also seen this happen with violent patients that had to be chemically restrained in psych hospitals.

Four point restraints.

That's crazy about the Haldol.

I've heard people call it the Thorazine shuffle. I have seen it, but not that contorted tongue thing.:eek:

Thanking you as well for the information Pensfan.

Another point some years ago in England heroin addicts were showing up with signs of Parkinson's. It was something they were mixing in with the dope. Maybe it was Haldol? Thorazine? Maybe this woman if she was doing drugs and getting them ilegally had something like that happen?
 
  • #125
Nightline is covering this tonight.
 
  • #126
Thanks again Pensfan. This horrific case has really gotten to me and I am consumed with trying to understand the unimaginable.

Please share any other insights & thoughts that you have. Like- if the bizarre movements we saw on the video were due to a single large dose of Thorazine (or some other drug to subdue her), would that have landed her in the ICU ?

No, these symptoms would not meet admission criteria for the ICU. IMO, she was likely placed in a locked psych unit for observation/evaluation and/or medication administration for those 3 days. If her behavior inside her house when LE arrived is released, we will be able to determine so much more.
 
  • #127
Four point restraints.

That's crazy about the Haldol.

I've heard people call it the Thorazine shuffle. I have seen it, but not that contorted tongue thing.:eek:

Thanking you as well for the information Pensfan.

Another point some years ago in England heroin addicts were showing up with signs of Parkinson's. It was something they were mixing in with the dope. Maybe it was Haldol? Thorazine? Maybe this woman if she was doing drugs and getting them ilegally had something like that happen?
There are a few studies now that show a positive association with long-term meth use and Parkinson tremors. This woman was having extrapyramidal symptoms. Old health care providers have seen hundreds with this dreadful side effect, so it is easy to recognize (I am old. :D) Thankfully, the newer antipsychotic meds are not as likely to cause such side effects which can be permanent in some patients.
 
  • #128
  • #129
I missed seeing this. What else do they know about this sad tragedy? TIA

Nothing new. Some video/photos of the family I hadn't seen.

I just keep wondering what her pre-existing medical condition is. Was she receiving proper treatment for it? Had new meds been added after the car accident? Was she self medicating with alcohol? I'm not looking for excuses, just answers.

RIP Calyx and Beau
 
  • #130
I think we'll hear the police call today and get info on the DCF report soon since this is Florida with the Sunshine Laws.

I am a Guardian Ad Litem for the State of Florida...

Personally, I am not sure the DCF case will be made public. They have to protect the rights of the Children. But the fact that the children are dead may come into play in this case.

Don't Know For Sure.. This shall be an interesting, but sad, case to follow!

DEAR GOD...PLEASE BLESS ALL THE CHILDREN OF THE WORLD!
 
  • #131
White Rain, I understand that it can be hard for parents to get help for truly dysfunctional, mentally ill, and/or physically dangerous teens,.

But I have to be honest and say that I think most of what your own SD did was very normal acting out and a desperate plea for help and attention = /sneaking out of the house/ smoking pot/ sex/foul mouthed back talk/ tattoos/ dramatic writings/ piercings/ lying to stay out of jail. None of it is certainly anything a parents wants for their child, but none of it is abnormal either. And it also doesn't mean that she's a bad kid or that her future will be bleak.

For several years your husband only raised his daughter on weekends, so a few 24 hour nights at the hospital, the stress of raising an unhappy and defiant teenager, and some extra cash for a few special programs/parole doesn't seem all that awful to me, especially when it seems she was in this position because of decisions the adults in her life had made over her entire life time.

It wasn't acceptable behavior, but it was still within the normal range of teenage behavior, things that could have and should have been handled in a much less dramatic fashion and in a much more compassionate way. The multiple sex partners is worrisome because it points towards the need for a more involved father figure or possible sexual abuse having been perpetrated against her at some time. The un-named misdemeanors are also concerning, but I'm sure you don't really want her locked up in prison, right? She needs/needed fellowship, counseling, group therapy, a mentor, etc. And I do agree with your that those should have been offered to her and the rest of your family, by the schools, churches, her doctors, the courts. This is a problem, a nationwide problem, one that needs to be addressed and dealt with.

Nothing she was doing was really all that terrible. These things would be terribly worrisome, imho: prostituting and/or stealing for hard-core drugs, not using protection and getting pregnant, or an STD or AIDS, dropping out of high school to runaway and move in with her unemployed boyfriend, plotting the murder of your family or strangers (and not just on paper or in her mind), telling huge, life altering lies such as telling the cops that your husband was molesting her so she could get out of going to jail or the mental hospital lock down. Tattoos, pot and sneaking out to meet a boyfriend just don't compare.

Some day you need to step into her shoes with all your heart and soul for a few moments:
You have parents who were apparently incapable of raising you for whatever reason, a reason that it not your fault but still makes you feel like you're not good enough.
You've been rejected by your own mother, the one person in the world who is supposed to be there for you unconditionally.
You've never really had an average day to day life with your father.
You're being raised by your grandparent and then you are rejected by her - so now that's two maternal failures.
You've been kicked out of your home, you are scared to go into a new situation, "taken in" (how generous!) by the father who had previously been unable to raise you full time.
Living with a step-mother who doesn't seem to like you much and appears to see you as as your father's problem, which feels like a 3rd maternal rejection.
You have a new sibling and this happily excites you, but this child WILL be raised with the parents you should have had, and with the home life you should have had.
You feel a bit envious of the baby, and oh so lonely, misunderstood, unfairly treated it and picked on.
Nothing you do seems right or good enough.
You're still such a young lady, but you've been through more emotional troubles than most adults ever experience.
And no one has ever taught you or demonstated the tools you need to properly cope with your confused and angry emotions.

Ok this is a continuance of the thread mom killed kids for being mouthy....I was afraid ppl would quit reading that thread and not read/respond to what I have to say...I am sure the threads will be combined which is great but hopefully a few eyes will see this first...
Let me say first and foremost NO child should be killed for ANY reason....but next let me tell you something from the otherside, and how laws (at least in my part of GA) are enabling teens to get away with EVERYTHING BUT A FELONY...and how parents get pushed to the breaking point (not the killer point though!)
My-then-14-yr old step-daughter came to live with us full time about 3 yrs ago...she had been raised by her grandma since she was 2. Hubby had her EVERY weekend, her mom had no custody whatsoever.
She was a great girl, did great in school, etc...but then started running away, doing drugs, suddenly grandma doesn't want her anymore....
So we take her in...does great for awhile, then the crap starts in...skipping school, smoking pot and cigs, sneaking out at night, getting "home-made" tattoos behind our backs from teenage boys, piercing her own lip, sex with multiple, and I do mean multiple boys...she would look us dead in our face and say "F*ck you" things of that nature...found a note she had wrote in her room about torturing ppl and getting turned on by it...was even doing more scary things esp. since we had a newborn in the house...
We BEGGED for help everywhere we could turn...school, cops, courts, etc...when the cops came for more things than I even wrote about she would instantly scream she felt suicidal...she knew that meant an automatic trip to the ER suicide watch and her dad would have to be there...sometimes more than 24 hrs which meant he had to stay up all night THEN go to work...she would even admit she would lie about the suicide just to stay out of trouble...even admitted it to cops in my own prescense, but once she said those words, it was over....she would then be sent to a mental health place that would NEVER, and I mean NOT once keep her over 7 days because of "insurance."
Then the story would start all over again.
Sometimes when we would call the cops they would "lock her up for 4 hrs" which was the max they could...which always made my hubby get up in the middle of the night (it was always nighttime) to go get her a$$...
at one point for all her crap she was put on "probation" for which my hubby had to pay the monthly fine and she was ordered a "tour of the jail" which cost another $25...something else for my hubby to pay.
I could go on and on and on....the point I want to make is that sometimes parents DO ask for help, and theis is the kinda crap we get...I have no idea what this woman did or did not do or if she asked for help or not...
Just thought I would give a view from the otherside who begged for help and never got it.
Time and time again my step-d committed "mis-demeanors" which would have an ordinary adult under arrest for....As a teen thanks to new laws in GA she can do anything and go free as long as its not a felony.

In the case of the murders of Calyx and Beau, I think the opposite problem was occurring. It was the mother, their murderer, who had a problem/s that weren't being adequately dealt with. The family chose mostly to ignore her escalating problems, including her anger issues, alcohol abuse and depression. They never returned to Al-Anon; CPS didn't take seriously the many complaints of abuse made by Calyx. The father was not involved enough or in tune enough to know deep the problems with his wife ran. This mother didn't murder her children because they were uncontrollable delinquents who caused endless trouble and continuously disrespected her by being 'mouthy'. She killed them because she was in an alcohol fueled rage, unable to properly react to typical child behaviors.
 
  • #132
This story has broke open alot of info about Centcom and NSA that the govt probably is not too happy about leaking. I could see how stuff could have been pushed under the rug for these people.

Like I said, my brother was NSA, a russian linguist, the same time matter of fact that this woman was there. To be in NSA you have to have one of the most top level clearances there is. To obtain this they do a COMPLETE and i mean complete profile, background check, etc on you. While by db was in training at Lackland AFB they where talking to his elementary school teachers, neighbors, postman, etc seriously! They also put him through a series of psycological testing. To get that clearance you can't be a nut case like this! or so they say. Its the same as being an astronaut and we all remember the one that tried to kidnap the gf of the other astronaut. Apparently, their background checks are not as good as they think.

People do go crazy, though, even if they show no signs of that possibility, earlier on. This slightly reminds me of the Andrea Yates case. She planned it and methodically chased at least of one of her kids down, drowning them one by one. I hated that lady for years. I didn't care if she was crazy. I thought that even crazy women have maternal instinct that would kick in at some point during the course of killing five kids. Then I read a book about her.

I would guess she showed no bizarre behavior or the gun shop would not have sold her the gun.

The reason I say this in Florida a couple of years ago my husband's coworker was murdered by his wife. She tried to buy a handgun prior to the murder but the gun shop owner refused to sell it to her because of her demeanor. He felt something just wasn't right.

Sadly she just lied to one of their neighbors instead and borrowed the gun under false pretenses. She coldly murdered him because the next day his divorce would have been final and he would have finally been out from under her controlling abusive clutches.

I am not sure this woman had any mental history or issues. She was returned to jail rather quickly. So it may have been a medical condition and not a mental condition.

I think she murdered her children because she was sick and tired of being their mother and knowing they were closer to wanting their independence.

IMO

Have you ever watched Dateline's "What Would You Do?" They featured a piece once that featured an obviously intoxicated woman with her baby in a car, trying to get people to blow into a breathlyzer. Some agreed to do it for her. Gun sellers are no more or less moral than the average person and in this economy, many people are just happy to get a sale - no questions asked.

Also, sane people don't kill their kids because they are mouthy and then coldly admit to it. And criminals don't do that either. Criminals also don't typically plan to commit suicide in the midst of their plan to be free of someone. Instead, they try to cover up the crime or blame "some black guy" ala Susan Smith. It makes no sense that this woman just simply got sick of her kids and being a mom and thus decided to kill them and herself and then calmly admitted to everything.

ETA: I;m aware that the woman did not go through with her plans for suicide, but apparently that was part of the plan.

It is hard to predict who will murder their children and who wont. Some seemed to have an idyllic life......some do not.

I did read somewhere about one of the people that knew her and said she had a Type A Personality so that must mean she is high strung.

I have always believed that military wives mostly believe in strict discipline. They have to feel they are in control of their children since the children's father usually is gone for periods of time. They take on the role of the mother and the father while the father is away. Imo, it makes them tough disciplinarians.

I think this woman did not like that her children were at the age of wanting their independence and they probably DID talk back to her and IMO, she just wasn't going to put up with that.

IMO

I agree that she was a type A and likely had a perfectionist personality. Again, though, killing one's kids because one is a tough disciplinarian and just isn't going to put up with back talk, makes no sense. It does not fit, IMO.

Here's a question or two.

It was mentioned that JS was found in her bloody bathrobe/pajamas. I read that back a few threads. She had driven her son to soccer practice. I do believe that she may have had on her pajamas when she got in the car. If you're that depressed, and out of it the last thing you cared about would be if you were in a bathrobe.

Lord forgive me I even have to write this. Why did she not just shoot her son in the house? Why take him in the car? Unless she actually figured it would have been harder if her DD heard the shots and could fight back or at least escape.

So did she change? Took off the clothes she had on in the car. Put on her bathrobe and then murdered her beautiful DD?

I think she killed the son first, in the car while it was running in the garage and then she went inside and shot her daughter in the back of the head, getting blood splatter on her both times. It's horrible to think of. Report stated there was no sign of struggle and that it is likely the daughter, at least, did not know what hit her. Thank God for small favors. It's so horrendous.
 
  • #133
I have been following the story and this one is so horrific. I am very upset and just had to state my feelings. I can't even imagine such a crime.

It just really got to me to read that LE believe she planned to kill her children. OMG, this is so tragic.
I too believe she murdered her children as she was tired of being a parent.

My thoughts and prayers are with the family.

May these two beautiful angels Rest in Peace.

Goz
 
  • #134
It looks like she was psychotic to me. If she had a "pre-existing medical condition" that kept her hospitalized afterwards and shaking like a nutcase when the cops were leading her off, I wonder what it was and if perhaps she stopped taking her medication. It is odd that no one did anything about it, it seems like the warning signs were there. Especially the slapping incident, how could anyone think that was anything remotely approaching normal rational behaviour? Maybe they were just so used to her outbursts they brushed it off.
 
  • #135
So if she used to work in the CIA she would almost certainly have had a security clearance, as was mentioned before. Those do require extensive background checks and investigation, dependent on the level.

One other thing, though, is that you have to divulge your medical records, including any psychiatric records or counseling. I hold a security clearance and have been in counseling before for general anxiety. It did make me a little uneasy about how I was giving them rights to those records, and to talking to my counselor. Part of it was privacy issues, and part of it was wondering how it would be looked at by investigators. Would it jeopardize my chance of getting a clearance?

My point is that I can see this sort of thought process leading a person to think that they shouldn't seek counseling or other treatment for mental illness, for fear it would jeopardize their job through loss of a needed security clearance. The alternative is there's a problem is to avoid treatment, and that can be dangerous in some cases.

Sort of like how for years pilots weren't allowed to take any type of psychiatric medicine, period. What you ended up were some pilots who lied and tried to cover usage up, or some who would have benefited from mild medication for anxiety or depression, say, who avoided it precisely because seeking the treatment they needed would lead to an end of their career.

Maybe she just thought she worked for the CIA.
 
  • #136
http://abcnews.go.com/US/julie-sche...charged-killing-kids/story?id=12801885&page=4

i dont think that i believe the story that the husband did not think there was a problem or any reason to worry if it is true that he is not going to help her financially or otherwise now... there are some really big holes in this situation...

so, this article also states that she has had a drug and alcohol problem - isnt that sometimes common for people with undiagnosed mental diseases? please dont think that im making excuses for this woman but clearly there is some type of major mental problem going on here, imo... sounds as if maybe the husband (and possibly the kids) were at there wits end with her but for whatever reasons never got her the mental help that she needed or possibly she refused treatment...
 
  • #137
I'm watching Nancy grace and I can't believe the reactions! We had a man kill many people in Arizona and he too was mentally ill! I don't hear much sympathy for him. We don't know what issues this woman had, but there isn't much to indicate she had a brain injury. The accident seemed very tame. I think she was putting in for the cameras. She appeared in court looking and acting normal.

Like someone said, working for the NSA isn't a run of the mill military job. She's most likely been psychologically evaluated. Has anyone thought that maybe she was abusive to her children all their lives?

Like mark klaas said the victims are the kids not the mother. The poor father had the right reaction. He is mourning the loss of the children and not running to her side. That is very telling.

I'm just seriously outraged that just cause she is well to do and a woman that there must be a mental reason she killed her kids. If this was a man would many have the same reaction??? IMO she planned the cold murder of her kids. She was fed up. She doesn't have to be crazy. People murder all the time so are all of them mentally ill??? Depression is not defense.
 
  • #138
Maybe she just thought she worked for the CIA.

She was NSA. It is reported that she was a russian linguist in the army. That's how she met her husband. They trained these people to speak russian and they sat infront of radios for many hours per day deciphering russian into english, it was prior to aand during the fall of the USSR. I believe they do it now with middle eastern languages. When my brother did his 6 years they offered him a very large amount of money to stay but he left. He was actually stationed at NSA headquarters for some time and prior he was in Italy. JPS was stationed in Germany, I remember my brother saying back then that this was the favorite base and you had to know someone to get stationed there.

I actually tested in 85 to be a linguist but I did not make it. My IQ is 136 and they where looking for people over 140. So she must be highly intelligent, although she apparently is missing compassion and that love thing to do this to her children.


I cant believe what those kids, and the dad, went through with JPS. It appears that he really tried for the kids to keep the family together with all of her addictions. He is probably kicking himself for that now. Its all sad.
 
  • #139
I have been following this story.I continue to go back and forth.On the one hand,she planned her children's murders.She sent an email to her mother saying "it will soon be over" and she bought the gun.That appears premeditated.On the other,saying that she killed her children because they were "mouthy" and her behaviors afterwards seem to point to signs of mental illness or distress.
I feel that Calyx tried seeking help but they brushed her concerns to the side because of the front that her mother put up.JPS appeared to have everything together.JPS was able to blame Calyx for misbehaving and people accepted it because that's what teenagers do.However,sometimes,there are good reasons for teenagers to rebel.For instance,Calyx wasn't the problem,she was reacting to her mother's sudden change of behavior.
It is days later and I am still shaking my head in disbelief.
~RIP Calyx and Beau~
 
  • #140
How is JPS different from Andrea Yates? She planned to kill her kids too, didn't she? I don't know either of their whole stories or what led them to be violent toward their children, but in JPS's case, without all the facts I have to start with sympathy toward her. I believe it's completely possible to go stark raving mad under the influence of drugs and alcohol to the degree that the unthinkable occurs. Was she responsible for her actions? Absolutely, but judging her without all the facts seems unfair to me.

JMO
 
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