GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #7

[minor4th]

Military are not to show emotion. They are taught no matter what to continue the mission....which for P was to get through all of this, bury his children. His emotions are private and we will never see anything.



If JS wanted to continue on with her career, PS could have retired at 20 years, letting JS continue on. We will never know what their decisions were on this issue. No one can say it was just him deciding this, nor can we say it was her deciding this, or if it was both.



One more thing....A lot of people, like my MIL, acted robotic for a long time after her husband died. we saw no tears in public but I did when I was with her privately.



And yes, I have that military/spouse experince.

True - it is probably the many years of military that has shaped his demeanor during stressful and emotional times.

I do have great empathy for him

 

[minor4th]

Ummmm, ok. Sister was empathetic and trying to understand. so?

She advocated and tried to be proactive and get Julie help? in what way? did she communicate her concerns and do red flags to family or doctors prior to the killings? How did she advocate?

Empathy and understanding don't affect change perhaps? Just is warm fuzzy?


I saw others in the family that were fed up/angry but ALSO advocated for her and tried to DO SOMETHING in their own way to affect change.... but not the sister. I must have missed that... links? TIA

Geez ATL, please don't get so worked up. I think you're reading way too much into my posts.

Let me rephrase - the sister had a softer and more nurturing approach. That doesn't mean her approach was better than anyone else's - but one can infer she's a more demonstratively emotional person than the other family members. That would kind of explain why she's crying and other family members weren't? She displays emotions more openly.

 

[minor4th]

There is : diminished capacity....but they did not use that defense.

I guess you can't pick two contradictory defenses ?

 

[atthelake]

True - it is probably the many years of military that has shaped his demeanor during stressful and emotional times.

I do have great empathy for him

On another thread, we have all admired June Steankamps quiet and stoic demeanor during the trial and such a stressful and emotional time.

Stoic maturity for both and their families - murdered children in common.

 

[wendiesan]

this juror said that he worried if not guilty insanity...he felt she would at some point she would walk...well I guess that would seal the deal...although they are not supposed to consider the sentence

If the jury did worry she would walk, they were smart, IMO.

Here in Canada, we have had a horror story going on. In 2008, a man killed, beheaded and cannibalized a 22 year old fellow passenger old on a Greyhound bus. In 2009, the killer was found not criminally responsible due to mental illness and was placed in the locked wing of a psychiatric facility and not allowed to leave. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...lien-mental-health-advocate-article-1.1083031)

By 2012 a Criminal Code Review board decided the murderer was so well behaved, thanks to his medication, that he could have escorted trips into the nearest city. Every week his excursions could be extended by another 15 minutes. As well, the community would not be informed of his excursions and his escorts could not be in uniform. He was described as "a nice gentle guy" by psychiatrists. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...e-li-deserves-our-compassion/article17266850/)

This year, this barbaric murderer has been granted the right to have unescorted outings beginning with half hour trips, and ending with full days. He will no longer be monitored in his unlocked ward. The goal? To reintegrate this man into a society. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ns-right-to-unescorted-trips/article17140007/)

The victim's mother is outraged. She feels it is an insult to her son, and the Federal Minister of Public Safety agrees with her.

It's a sickening situation. Currently the government is trying to pass a law providing mandatory sentences for those found NCR by reason of mental illness of murder charges. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/vince-li-granted-unsupervised-outings-1.2554175)

Good on that jury for their verdict.

 

[Nymeria]

If the jury did worry she would walk, they were smart, IMO.

Here in Canada, we have had a horror story going on. In 2008, a man killed, beheaded and cannibalized a 22 year old fellow passenger old on a Greyhound bus. In 2009, the killer was found not criminally responsible due to mental illness and was placed in the locked wing of a psychiatric facility and not allowed to leave. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...lien-mental-health-advocate-article-1.1083031)

By 2012 a Criminal Code Review board decided the murderer was so well behaved, thanks to his medication, that he could have escorted trips into the nearest city. Every week his excursions could be extended by another 15 minutes. As well, the community would not be informed of his excursions and his escorts could not be in uniform. He was described as "a nice gentle guy" by psychiatrists. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...e-li-deserves-our-compassion/article17266850/)

This year, this barbaric murderer has been granted the right to have unescorted outings beginning with half hour trips, and ending with full days. He will no longer be monitored in his unlocked ward. The goal? To reintegrate this man into a society. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ns-right-to-unescorted-trips/article17140007/)

The victim's mother is outraged. She feels it is an insult to her son, and the Federal Minister of Public Safety agrees with her.

It's a sickening situation. Currently the government is trying to pass a law providing mandatory sentences for those found NCR by reason of mental illness of murder charges. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/vince-li-granted-unsupervised-outings-1.2554175)

Good on that jury for their verdict.

My gawd I remember when that happened.
Rehabilitation is just dandy for your average criminal, but after what this guy did I do not think he should even see a minute of the rest of his life outside of a prison and/or asylum.

 

[rosie_lee]

HATE HLN!!!
Nancy and JVM keep talking. Thankfully Nancy noticed judge talking and Ithey shut up

I can barely watch them anymore.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I just finished catching up with the old thread and the new. Doggone T-storms shut me down last night and I decided to catch up on some TV I'd missed. About 7:03, I stopped what I was watching and put on JVM. I was very surprised to see "VERDICT" on the screen. I did manage to see the verdict, JS's speech, and PS speaking live. I so missed being with you all.

As with many of you, I agree with the verdict. I do worry about the one alternate juror who spoke up immediately. It sounds like the jury may have talked a bit prior to deliberations. He did say he "thought" they were all on the same page after the 3rd day. Let's hope, when he is questioned by the judge, he will tell Battles that they did NOT discuss the case. I'm assuming that, once the defense makes its motion, all the sitting jurors and other excused alternates will be questioned as well.

If there is any hint of impropriety, there will be a mistrial and we will have to go through all this again. The only upside of a re-trial is that all witnesses, especially the experts, are on the record with their testimony and wouldn't be able to "change their minds" in re-trial.

As for Parker Schenecker, he is the military man. DH worked for the DOD for 33 years. For the last 15 years or so, he was the civilian equivalent of a Colonel. He mainly worked for the Army with heavy contact with the Navy. His job required heavy travel. A glance through old calendars show long lines with a destination... Saudi, Japan, Guam, Korea, Panama, Turkey, etc., etc., etc. I was left at home to carry the load for the two of us. I closed on houses, moved us, worked full time, put the trash out. I spent holidays without him.

Julie signed on for this. As a member of the military, she was well aware of what life would entail. She opted to have children, knowing her burden. Obviously, she was not up to it mentally. As she got more and more ill over the years, PS did what many men do. There's a problem, look for a way to fix it. And he did, for 20 years, never giving up until JS did.

My neighbor, a retired Colonel is just like this. His military neighbor is in Iraq and the wife is overwhelmed? He mows their lawn without being asked. He clears her driveway when it's covered in a foot of snow (and sometimes ours). If there's a problem, he fixes it. He is like many military officers. They don't show their emotions, they look around and figure out how to solve problems. It's their training. Over the past 33 years, I've known many military men and women with the same presentation. In fact, my DH is very much the same.

 

[atthelake]

Geez ATL, please don't get so worked up. I think you're reading way too much into my posts.

Let me rephrase - the sister had a softer and more nurturing approach. That doesn't mean her approach was better than anyone else's - but one can infer she's a more demonstratively emotional person than the other family members. That would kind of explain why she's crying and other family members weren't? She displays emotions more openly.

Oh, sorry! I thought you were making a legal inference as to the evidence/background within the trial vs. merely stating "that would kind of explain why she's crying and other family members weren't during the sentencing"... based on your reference to emails...... which I thought you were referring to prior to the trial. I haven't seen the sister's email(s)


Originally Posted by minor4th View Post
From the emails, it looks like the sister was the only one who was really empathic and was trying to understand how Julie felt. She advocated for her when everyone else was pretty much fed up and angry at her."

 

[cherishtoo]

I just finished catching up with the old thread and the new. Doggone T-storms shut me down last night and I decided to catch up on some TV I'd missed. About 7:03, I stopped what I was watching and put on JVM. I was very surprised to see "VERDICT" on the screen. I did manage to see the verdict, JS's speech, and PS speaking live. I so missed being with you all.

As with many of you, I agree with the verdict. I do worry about the one alternate juror who spoke up immediately. It sounds like the jury may have talked a bit prior to deliberations. He did say he "thought" they were all on the same page after the 3rd day. Let's hope, when he is questioned by the judge, he will tell Battles that they did NOT discuss the case. I'm assuming that, once the defense makes its motion, all the sitting jurors and other excused alternates will be questioned as well.

If there is any hint of impropriety, there will be a mistrial and we will have to go through all this again. The only upside of a re-trial is that all witnesses, especially the experts, are on the record with their testimony and wouldn't be able to "change their minds" in re-trial.

As for Parker Schenecker, he is the military man. DH worked for the DOD for 33 years. For the last 15 years or so, he was the civilian equivalent of a Colonel. He mainly worked for the Army with heavy contact with the Navy. His job required heavy travel. A glance through old calendars show long lines with a destination... Saudi, Japan, Guam, Korea, Panama, Turkey, etc., etc., etc. I was left at home to carry the load for the two of us. I closed on houses, moved us, worked full time, put the trash out. I spent holidays without him.

Julie signed on for this. As a member of the military, she was well aware of what life would entail. She opted to have children, knowing her burden. Obviously, she was not up to it mentally. As she got more and more ill over the years, PS did what many men do. There's a problem, look for a way to fix it. And he did, for 20 years, never giving up until JS did.

My neighbor, a retired Colonel is just like this. His military neighbor is in Iraq and the wife is overwhelmed? He mows their lawn without being asked. He clears her driveway when it's covered in a foot of snow (and sometimes ours). If there's a problem, he fixes it. He is like many military officers. They don't show their emotions, they look around and figure out how to solve problems. It's their training. Over the past 33 years, I've known many military men and women with the same presentation. In fact, my DH is very much the same.

Wow. I'm gobsmacked.
I always considered children blessings, not burdens.

Parker should have been "a father" to Calyx and Beau. They needed him.

 

[Tulessa]

Military are not to show emotion. They are taught no matter what to continue the mission....which for P was to get through all of this, bury his children. His emotions are private and we will never see anything.

If JS wanted to continue on with her career, PS could have retired at 20 years, letting JS continue on. We will never know what their decisions were on this issue. No one can say it was just him deciding this, nor can we say it was her deciding this, or if it was both.

One more thing....A lot of people, like my MIL, acted robotic for a long time after her husband died. we saw no tears in public but I did when I was with her privately.

And yes, I have that military/spouse experince.

Minor is correct, and that is NOT true, In the older days? Maybe, but my son was a Marine, and emotion is a plus.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Wow. I'm gobsmacked.
I always considered children blessings, not burdens.

Parker should have been "a father" to Calyx and Beau. They needed him.

The burden I was referring to was the entire life style. Yes, children are blessings.

IMHO, I don't believe we have adequate information that PS wasn't a father to his children. In fact, from what I read in the e-mails and on the stand, PS was a very involved father and loved his children very much.

 

[Abigail]

there was a ton of evidence but both jurors I have heard said journal right away....it was such concrete insight into her mind and detailed. I think people like this seem to write journals...look at JA...I think CA did too.

By leaving that journal -- even referencing the police to it -- she certainly had no plans for getting away with it. She must have really meant to commit suicide (and maybe chickened out at the last minute), or she didn't consider the consequences of a lifetime in prison.

 

[minor4th]

By leaving that journal -- even referencing the police to it -- she certainly had no plans for getting away with it. She must have really meant to commit suicide (and maybe chickened out at the last minute), or she didn't consider the consequences of a lifetime in prison.

I agree. She was comfortable leaving those journals as her legacy because she had no intention of being around when they were discovered

 

[Abigail]

I guess that's why I am feel sad tonight because I was sooooo sure that it was M1.....when she gave her speech I realized how much was misfiring in her being....there's something unsettling there that creates some ''reasonable doubt''. There's a huge ''defect'' there. Did anyone run IQ tests on her?? She may have been brilliant in the past but something's wrong. Brain damage comes to mind and I think someone should run some cognitive tests asap.

I'm not sure about IQ tests, per se, but she had a number of psychological tests done by at least two docs (and these generally include some sort of assessment of intelligence). There is, indeed, a huge defect there. But what the jury had to decide was about her state of mind at the time of the murders (and the 5 days before -- from when she bought the gun). Did she understand what she was doing? Did she understand the consequences? Did she understand it was wrong? And, she left some rather damning statements in her journal just before and after the murders...and so it was left to 12 sane people to try to interpret what she was communicating -- to make sense of what a mentally ill person said, wrote, or did.

I do appreciate her grace and dignity during her allocation. She did not beg for mercy, she took responsibility for her actions, and she apologized.

 

[Abigail]

I think liver function tests are needed.

I was thinking she looks a bit jaundiced at times, but not sure if it were the lighting or perhaps my computer screen. But I would guess her ALT levels are close to 200

 

[Jewels53]

Juror Cheri Kendall, 42, told the Tampa Bay Times that during deliberations, the jury read Schenecker's journal cover to cover. In it, they found proof of premeditation and evidence she'd known that society would view her actions as morally wrong and illegal. That Schenecker had lied to the gun store clerk, telling him that she needed the weapon for self-defense, weighed heavily in her thinking, Kendall said.

"We had some discussions on how do you really know what is going on through someone's mind, but we kept coming back to what the law states constitutes insanity," she said. "Being mentally ill is not the same as being insane."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...egin-in-julie-schenecker-murder-trial/2179870

 

[strawberry]

I just finished catching up with the old thread and the new. Doggone T-storms shut me down last night and I decided to catch up on some TV I'd missed. About 7:03, I stopped what I was watching and put on JVM. I was very surprised to see "VERDICT" on the screen. I did manage to see the verdict, JS's speech, and PS speaking live. I so missed being with you all.

As with many of you, I agree with the verdict. I do worry about the one alternate juror who spoke up immediately. It sounds like the jury may have talked a bit prior to deliberations. He did say he "thought" they were all on the same page after the 3rd day. Let's hope, when he is questioned by the judge, he will tell Battles that they did NOT discuss the case. I'm assuming that, once the defense makes its motion, all the sitting jurors and other excused alternates will be questioned as well.

If there is any hint of impropriety, there will be a mistrial and we will have to go through all this again. The only upside of a re-trial is that all witnesses, especially the experts, are on the record with their testimony and wouldn't be able to "change their minds" in re-trial.

As for Parker Schenecker, he is the military man. DH worked for the DOD for 33 years. For the last 15 years or so, he was the civilian equivalent of a Colonel. He mainly worked for the Army with heavy contact with the Navy. His job required heavy travel. A glance through old calendars show long lines with a destination... Saudi, Japan, Guam, Korea, Panama, Turkey, etc., etc., etc. I was left at home to carry the load for the two of us. I closed on houses, moved us, worked full time, put the trash out. I spent holidays without him.

Julie signed on for this. As a member of the military, she was well aware of what life would entail. She opted to have children, knowing her burden. Obviously, she was not up to it mentally. As she got more and more ill over the years, PS did what many men do. There's a problem, look for a way to fix it. And he did, for 20 years, never giving up until JS did.

My neighbor, a retired Colonel is just like this. His military neighbor is in Iraq and the wife is overwhelmed? He mows their lawn without being asked. He clears her driveway when it's covered in a foot of snow (and sometimes ours). If there's a problem, he fixes it. He is like many military officers. They don't show their emotions, they look around and figure out how to solve problems. It's their training. Over the past 33 years, I've known many military men and women with the same presentation. In fact, my DH is very much the same.

Wow. I'm gobsmacked.
I always considered children blessings, not burdens.

Parker should have been "a father" to Calyx and Beau. They needed him.

I read this differently. I think he meant Julie's burden of mental illness. He is saying she chose to have children even though she knew she had the burden of depression.

 

[Chelly]

Good Morning WS Friends:seeya:

When I am wrong, I am waaaaaay wrong.

The quick verdict was stunning, I think. It is clear the verdict was reached based upon premeditation and JS' knowledge of right and wrong. In retrospect, I see a fair decision.

 

[popsicle]

The burden I was referring to was the entire life style. Yes, children are blessings.

IMHO, I don't believe we have adequate information that PS wasn't a father to his children. In fact, from what I read in the e-mails and on the stand, PS was a very involved father and loved his children very much.

She also wanted to add to her distress.. she wanted to have 5 children. Thankfully, Parker got a vasectomy. jmo