FL FL - Clifford & Christine Walker, both 23, & 2 kids, Osprey, 20 Dec 1959

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  • #61
Richard said:
Perry and Dick certainly were capable of murdering a whole family in cold blood. And they were in the very close vicinity to the Walker home. Hopefully DNA testing can be done which will help to determine if they were involved.

The problem with trying to use logic to connect them or rule them out is that their logic system was something out of the Bizarro World. What is known for certain is that they were a matched pair of dirtbags who would kill for the slightest "reason".
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I agree they were certainly capable of killing the Walker family. And like I said above, they could very well have done it if they came across the Walker home and did it on the spur of the moment. I guess I just wasn't seeing that many similarities in the crime, considering the Clutters were wealthy and the Walkers weren't, and Dick and Perry went to the Clutter home looking for a safe containing $10,000. But I do agree Dick and Perry were sick enough to have committed both crimes.

In one of the articles from the Herald-Tribune (from 2006, I think) they listed several people who they were going to do DNA testing on. In August 2008, I e-mailed the reporter who wrote the original stories on the Walker family. I posted his reply on another page of this thread, but here it is again:

Mary-Beth

I apologize for my late response but I've been tied up chasing other
business. As far as I know, there have been no new significant developments in the case. Elbert and a few others were cleared in the first round of DNA testing, which I already reported. There is a new detective assigned to the case (Det. Albritton retired) and she believes it can be solved. Next year will be the 50th anniversary of the murders, so I suspect I'll write something to mark the occasion, unless something new happens before then.

l'm glad to hear the stories made such an impact on you. Feel free to write again any time.


Matthew Doig
Sarasota Herald-Tribune

I wrote him again just recently to see if there were new developments, and if he was still planning to write the 50th anniversary story but I haven't gotten a reply yet. I check the news updates regularly on this case and there haven't been any. I too wish something would come back from the DNA testing!
 
  • #62
An interesting Kansas City Star 50th anniversary story in re: the Clutter murders:

Lead:
Sixteen-year-old Diana Selsor had just come back from a beach party and was home alone in Palatka, Fla., that Sunday afternoon. So it was she, not her parents, who opened the shocking note police had left with a neighbor.

“It said, ‘Four members of the Clutter family killed in Holcomb, Kansas.’ There was a number to call.”

http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/1567276.html

And here's the direct link to the essay mentioned in the above story:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/story/1566961.html

The essay is by a first cousin of the Clutter family and is the first time a family member has spoken publicly about the murders in fifty years. In it, Diana Selsor Edwards puts a human face on her uncle, aunt, and two cousins, one she felt was sorely lacking in the Capote book.
 
  • #63
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the mania in trying to link famous killers, Zodiac, the killers of the Clutter family, etc to every crime on this board. I think in this case, it is seems to be very apparent that the killer of the Walkers knew them and seemed to have a jones for Christine.
 
  • #64
scriptgirl said:
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the mania in trying to link famous killers, Zodiac, the killers of the Clutter family, etc to every crime on this board. I think in this case, it is seems to be very apparent that the killer of the Walkers knew them and seemed to have a jones for Christine.
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I agree that the Walkers were killed by someone who knew them and that Christine was the primary target and rape the initial motive. However, the Clutter family's killers were in Florida at the time and, of course, had proven capable of heinous acts.

I just posted the Clutter links here because there's not a thread devoted to their 1959 killings, nor, after the fiftieth anniversary articles run their course, is their likely ever to be a need for one. The essay by the cousin is must-read stuff in that it does provide a look into the human cost of quadruple murders like those of the Clutters and the Walkers, within just over a month of one another, in 1959.
 
  • #65
I don't think the killer was the dirty old man-Toomer or whatever his name was. Did he like to put his hands where he shouldn't? Yes, but I don't think that makes him a killer. He seems to have been just that-a dirty old man.

I think the killer was that MCall guy that no one knows the whereabouts of.

Now, I have a few questions:

Is it for sure that Christine was having affairs? Had she grown up in that area? Had Cliff?
Also, is the area much changed since the time the crime occurred? Is the house still standing? Have any WS members been there? Are there pics of it?
 
  • #66
scriptgirl said:
I don't think the killer was the dirty old man-Toomer or whatever his name was. Did he like to put his hands where he shouldn't? Yes, but I don't think that makes him a killer. He seems to have been just that-a dirty old man.

I think the killer was that MCall guy that no one knows the whereabouts of.

Now, I have a few questions:

Is it for sure that Christine was having affairs? Had she grown up in that area? Had Cliff?
Also, is the area much changed since the time the crime occurred? Is the house still standing? Have any WS members been there? Are there pics of it?
Click to expand...

As of the 2005 articles cited above, "The house where the family died is now just piles of debris hidden in woods that soon could be overtaken by housing developments."

I think it's documented by statements from family and others that Christine did like attention to be paid to her by men. But, per the Herald Tribune articles, possible affairs are just rumors.

I'm under the impression that both were from the area; Christine attended Arcadia High School (where she was a majorette) and both had family in the Arcadia/Sarasota area.

Cliff had evidently been in a fight the Thursday before the murders, but the article does not tell us more. Christine told her mother-in-law and a store owner about the fight, but not the other participant(s).

I'd say the killer was the person who fought with Cliff, whomever that might be.
 
  • #67
I really need to pay more attention when I read. I think a big part of the reason this case hasn't been solved is the time period. This was a time period when you did not put your business in the street and when you didn't talk about certain things.
 
  • #68
scriptgirl said:
I really need to pay more attention when I read. I think a big part of the reason this case hasn't been solved is the time period. This was a time period when you did not put your business in the street and when you didn't talk about certain things.
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That's okay, I had to re-look it up and I'd just read it yesterday, lol. Also, I assumed Arcadia and Sarasota were quite close together, but Map Quest shows they're nearly fifty miles apart.
 
  • #69
  • #70
  • #71
Bumping...

Later this month it will be 50 years since this horrible tragedy occurred. I haven't heard back from the reporter at the Herald-Tribune, and there has yet to be a 50th anniversary article published, but I expect there will be one closer to the actual anniversary date of 12/19.
 
  • #72
I hope there will be. This case deserves to be solved. Whenever I think of that little boy crawling to his daddy, my eyes well up
 
  • #73
I know this isn't a Clutter thread but I am going to put up the link anyway. This was published in 2005 and has tons of information, interviews with the surviving Clutter sisters, Nancy's BF, and a bunch of other stuff. Pretty interesting.
http://www.ljworld.com/specials/incoldblood/
 
  • #74
Can't the Clutters have a seperate thread. I mean this thread is about the Walker family and the Clutters aren't a cold case
 
  • #75
gaia227 said:
I know this isn't a Clutter thread but I am going to put up the link anyway. This was published in 2005 and has tons of information, interviews with the surviving Clutter sisters, Nancy's BF, and a bunch of other stuff. Pretty interesting.
http://www.ljworld.com/specials/incoldblood/
Click to expand...

Thanks for this link, gaia227; insight into quadruple murderers who killed in 1959 is helpful to the Walker case as well, particularly those who were known to be in Florida when the family was murdered within a month of the Kansas crimes.
 
  • #76
I'm sorry, I don't think the people who did in The Clutters killed the Walkers, esp when you consider that Walker's marriage certificate and Christine's majorette uniform disappeared. That screams personal to me. Like I said, the Clutter case info doesn't belong in this thread. I think people love to tie in known killers to other cases.
 
  • #77
Bumping..yesterday was the 50th anniversary of this tragedy. I'm very surprised that there is no article marking the event in the Sarasota Herald-Tribune either.
 
  • #78
I don't think anyone here is saying the same people who killed the Walkers killed the Clutters. They are often compared to one another because of the proximity in time and the similarites (both being multiple homicides). Studying one case can provide insights into another, that's all.

I certainly don't think there is any connection between the two as far as suspects. I agree that whoever murdered the Walkers most-likely was a friend or acquaintence, Christine was the target and her husband and children were collateral damage (excuse the term). It is sad they were not remembered on the 50th anniversary of their murders. I checked again today and there is nothing. At least this one small group remembers them.
 
  • #79
mysteriew said:
His deputies were already scouring the wooden clapboard house that was the home of Cliff and Christine Walker and their two children when Sheriff Ross Boyer arrived about dawn Dec. 20, 1959.

Boyer surveyed the grisly scene inside. Don McLeod, the family friend who had called to report "trouble in Osprey," was right. The Walker family was dead.

The killer showed no mercy, killing Cliff while his children watched, then turning his gun on them.

Boyer noted streaks of blood around Jimmie, suggesting he'd crawled to his father as the killer put bullet after bullet in his head. His sister, Debbie, was drowned in shallow water in the tub after being shot once in the head.

The Evidence

The crime scene included a bloody cowboy boot print, a cigarette wrapper from a brand Cliff didn't smoke, a print from the bathtub faucet handle and seven spent .22-caliber shells from the killer's gun.

Although no one could tell if they were looking for a pistol or a rifle, a distinct mark left by the gun on the shell casings would make it easy to identify the murder weapon when they found it.

The suspects: A litany of names and clues
http://www.newscoast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051219/NEWS/512190338&Page=5

This is an absorbing story. Among the many other suspects are the infamous Perry Smith and Dick Hickock. 9 pages, but well worth reading.
Additional links:
http://www.newscoast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051219/NEWS/512190421

http://www.newscoast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051218/NEWS/512180667

http://www.newscoast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?CATEGORY=SPECIAL12
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I am surprised at the number of suspects and that it seems to not have really gone anywhere. So sad. An entire family, gone. Rest in peace.
 
  • #80
I wonder if any more DNA testing has been done? Seems that the case could be wide opened by testing the suspects.
 
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