FL - Coralrose Fullwood, 6, found murdered, North Port, 17 Sept 2006

  • #141
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060920/BREAKING01/60920014

NORTH PORT -- Police impounded the Dodge Caravan minivan owned by the Fullwood family on Wednesday morning. Police Chief Terry Lewis downplayed the significance of the seizure at an 11 a.m. press conference, saying family members of Coralrose Fullwood have not been ruled in or ruled out as possible suspects in the 6-year-old's death.

He said detectives have also called in a profiler to help identify the traits of Coralrose's killer.

"What it tells me is that we're not allowing ourselves to get tunnel vision," Lewis said in an interview after the press conference. "We haven't ruled anybody in; we haven't ruled anybody out."

Meanwhile, the girl’s cause of death has still not been released. Medical examiners said the autopsy has not been completed. The body has not been released to the family.

In a court hearing on Tuesday, officials said Coralrose's four siblings had not yet been interviewed by detectives about the case, and were potential witnesses.

Lewis would not say whether the interviews have taken place yet.

The four children are now in the custody of their grandparents. They were taken from the childrens' parents, Dale and Ellen-Beth Fullwood, because of the filthy conditions discovered at the couple's North Port home on Sunday by detectives investigating the girl's disappearance.
 
  • #142
I have never said that someone in the home murdered this child. This mother claimed she had a bad back due to her job, an excuse for the filth. She could put a load of wash in and fold the clothes on the couch, no excuse. I think the reason for the roaches in the refrigerator is because they put roach infested food in there. How else? NO child should live like this. Why have so many children? It just makes me sick.
 
  • #143
Amraann said:
WHo says she had a manicure?

Painting ones nails is hardly a manicure. Also the cost of a manicure is not going to equal to what a maid would cost.

I would be hard pressed to fault an over worked mother of several disabled children for getting her nails done.
I think its easy for us to sit back and judge without walking a mile in their shoes.

We are not talking about a maid here, a maid has very different duties. A cleaning lady cleans the house a maid doesn't. A maid will tell the cleaning lady what to clean.
 
  • #144
kgeaux said:
Didn't DCF CLEAR them of all previous charges??? How do we KNOW their previous homes were filthy. An allegation made is not necessarily indicative of FACT.

What I read is that their house was filthy before and they cleaned it so that the children wouldn't be taken away. I guess they can't help but live in filth because this house was disgusting.
 
  • #145
RiverRat said:
No - thank you. It is hard to provide these reports without commenting on my thoughts as it IS still early, so you just helped me out with your post by asking some good questions. Some friends of mine and I joke around that we work outside of the home as house-cleaning is not our forte' - having said that - there is a huge difference in a cluttered or messy home and one that is hazardess and worthy of so many prior complaints.

Think what you want of me for saying it outloud - but the family is being portrayed as a religious family.........however - the filth, the black nail polish and the bartending set off my Hinky Meter.

Only RR's opinion-
RR
Bartending sets off your Hinky Meter? Some people have to earn a living and bar tending pays extremely well. Sometimes $500 a night on a weekend.
I won't knock the father for that job.

My boyfriend is a chef in a restaurant that has bar tenders and our home is dirty, plus our one dog who is on water pills for his heart condition has peed in the house on several occasions. We clean the carpets weekly with our steam cleaner.
We sometimes leave fast food in bags in the sink for a few days because he and I work long hours and then are sleeping.
But we do not have kids.

My house is nice, my car is nice and my pets are spoiled ... but I am a messy housekeeper too with a month's worth of laundry piled up.
So which makes me a bad person or murderer? Choice a or b
a) I care for my dog and spoil him, yet he has accidents in the house almost every other day ... even after being let out several times per day? And my kitchen that is messy 5 days a week?
b) I do well at my job, take good care of my pets and work long hours?


You can't judge me because you don't know me and haven't seen my house.

We don't know this family and haven't seen the house.
What does "rotting food" look like?
What if the autisitc child did poop in the tub?
What if the roaches were at the house when they moved in?
I believe those things multiply and are hard to get rid of from what I have heard, but I do not know that for a fact.
I don't know anything for a fact in this case yet.
But I do know I am not above that woman or her family and will not judge them.
Living in a house six weeks and working a lot doesn't mean that everything is in order right away.
 
  • #146
Not many housekeepers would be prepared to clean a house if it has poo, roaches and wee. If these people are living in such conditions then it is a disgrace. There is NO excuse for putrid unhygenic living conditions. But if the wee is because of unchanged beds that need airing etc.then obviously the parents have other things on their minds and housecleaning on the morning your daughter is missing is not a priority.If they have a prior history of these type of conditions then I guess something needs to be done.
I feel sorry for their loss.Sounds like they were working hard but maybe this is at the kids expense.
 
  • #147
bakerprune64 said:
I think one of the hardest things for me to stomach here (aside from the murder of this preciosu child) is the fact that she had the time and the $$$ to get a manicure but not to hire a houskeeper??
How do you know she had a manicure? Maybe she had press on nails. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to do. Cleaning up a whole house takes hours, days even.
 
  • #148
PrayersForMaura said:
How do you know she had a manicure? Maybe she had press on nails. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to do. Cleaning up a whole house takes hours, days even.
Well they could be press on nails, but she should have cleaned her kitchen instead of wasting her time on press on nails. It's disgusting for somebody to live under those conditions, and I'm sure the people here would have been the first to point fingers at DCF for not doing anything about it.

It must be horrible for them to have lost their daughter and I do have sympathy for them there. But I don't have any sympathy for the fact the DCF placed the remaining children with the grandparents.
 
  • #149
Fathers have to work what is wrong with bar work? Hopefully it pays well. I do not see anything wrong with the woman doing her nails.Maybe, they are always like that.Perhaps it is her only indulgence.How do we know?

Sounds like they are hard working people to me. Looking after kids with Autism is very hard work. I have worked with handicapped adults and Autistic people are sometimes challenging.I would think that these people do not have enough 'down' time to do any thing.Hence, the filthy house. They need help with cleaning for sure.
 
  • #150
Didn't they say she was a speech therapist?...How does that give you back trouble? Did she say she had been up for 36 hours or worked 36 hours? If she was working who was with the kids....dad...or does he only work parttime?
 
  • #151
To people who don't have a clue. I am on the floor with my daughters condition and yes, I only washed my sheets today after a month.But, you need to look at the livelong conditions of the children.Please look at the children.
 
  • #152
I know they have children with special needs and I understand this can at times put a terrible strain on families. I understand as well that sometimes things can look bad even though it isn't normally like that. What I don't understand is how this should give them a free pass to let their home deteriorate to such a disgusting state. I don't get how whether before or after her child is murdered she has time to do her nails doesn't set off a little buzz that this mother is not taking care of this family.

We're not talking about a little dust in the lint trap, we're talking about on going filthy conditions that these children should not be subjected to. I'm amazed they aren't ill.


Honestly the condition of their home at no time has made me suspect them as murdering their little girl. I do believe though these children deserve some intervention and clean living.

Sorry, but when it comes to children I just don't cut much slack. The parents may need help but they're not children and they need to take responsibilty for their actions and the consequences.

Of course these are my own personal thoughts about the situation and I respect other points of view.

Jubie
 
  • #153
If none of us have walked a mile in those shoes I think we should not judge.


Like PFM said the roaches could have been there. (imagine the horror after paying your security deposit and hardly being able to make the rent and you discover that??)
We aren't talking like this women looked like a super model while her kids suffered ... They lived in that house too..
Makes me think they just did not know any better.


As for people ready to condemn DCF ... I live in Florida just look at their history.
I won't speak of other states but here??? OMG they kill more kids or at least as many as the scum bag parents do.
YOu bet your butt I condemn them and as my tax dollars pay for their totally lacking BS I have the right to.
 
  • #154
PrayersForMaura said:
Bartending sets off your Hinky Meter? Some people have to earn a living and bar tending pays extremely well. Sometimes $500 a night on a weekend.
I won't knock the father for that job.

My boyfriend is a chef in a restaurant that has bar tenders and our home is dirty, plus our one dog who is on water pills for his heart condition has peed in the house on several occasions. We clean the carpets weekly with our steam cleaner.
We sometimes leave fast food in bags in the sink for a few days because he and I work long hours and then are sleeping.
But we do not have kids.

My house is nice, my car is nice and my pets are spoiled ... but I am a messy housekeeper too with a month's worth of laundry piled up.
So which makes me a bad person or murderer? Choice a or b
a) I care for my dog and spoil him, yet he has accidents in the house almost every other day ... even after being let out several times per day? And my kitchen that is messy 5 days a week?
b) I do well at my job, take good care of my pets and work long hours?


You can't judge me because you don't know me and haven't seen my house.

We don't know this family and haven't seen the house.
What does "rotting food" look like?
What if the autisitc child did poop in the tub?
What if the roaches were at the house when they moved in?
I believe those things multiply and are hard to get rid of from what I have heard, but I do not know that for a fact.
I don't know anything for a fact in this case yet.
But I do know I am not above that woman or her family and will not judge them.
Living in a house six weeks and working a lot doesn't mean that everything is in order right away.
great post PFM..................
 
  • #155
Need to add...

All our info is based upon what DCF and the police say to the media.

DCF like sooo often have their own collective neglectful butts to cover.
The police maybe would like to sway public opinion towards the guilt of these parents.
 
  • #156
kgeaux said:
Yeah. That is inexcusable, horrible of the media to inform the parents. I am hoping the media got ahold of this information by listening to a police scanner, and that LE didn't actually release the information to the media before they informed the parents.

Something is wrong somewhere with this case. The child protection agency removed the children---now they say to question them--but the initial mention of the agency says the children were removed because they were believed to be in iminent danger. Since they were returned so quickly, we can probably safely assume the children were all well cared for, healthy and well loved.

Have the children been returned? I had not heard that. Here's another article about it:

Judge: DCF had duty to take kids

http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/092109/tp1ch6.htm?date=092109&story=tp1ch6.htm
 
  • #157
Two things stand out to me from earlier links in this thread:

The family remedied the situations in the past without losing custody of the children.(I take that to mean they cleaned up the mess and put the medicine away...not that the allegations were unfounded.)

and

Coleman read a line from the motion that states a "parent as possible perpetrator" in the suspicious death investigation of Coralrose.
 
  • #158
SewingDeb said:
Two things stand out to me from earlier links in this thread:

The family remedied the situations in the past without losing custody of the children.(I take that to mean they cleaned up the mess and put the medicine away...not that the allegations were unfounded.)

and

Coleman read a line from the motion that states a "parent as possible perpetrator" in the suspicious death investigation of Coralrose.
I think that LE's last statement was that they haven't ruled anyone out as suspects, and they also haven't ruled anyone in as suspects. So I think at this point, everyone could be a possible perpetrator in this crime--including the parents. That's the latest statement I'm aware of--they could've given more updates since then that I don't know about.
 
  • #159
packerdog said:
We are not talking about a maid here, a maid has very different duties. A cleaning lady cleans the house a maid doesn't. A maid will tell the cleaning lady what to clean.
:waitasec: A maid isn't just another word for cleaning lady? Seriously, I always thought they meant the same thing? There are professional cleaning companies here called "Merry Maids", "Cleanly Maid 4 U", & "Housemaids Cleaning". What does a maid do differently than a cleaning lady? I've never had either (unfortunately) so to me they have always meant the same thing. Maybe they mean different things in different parts of the country, as some words do?

Not that it really matters, LOL--but if I've spent my life using the terms in the wrong way, I want someone to steer me to the right way...
 
  • #160
The state child abuse investigators who seized four young siblings from their grandparents a day after the family lost another child in a suspected homicide were doing their duty, a Lee County-based circuit judge said Wednesday.

Circuit Judge James H. Seals, in an e-mail obtained by the Sun Wednesday, said investigators from the Department of Children and Families are required by law to respond to abuse and neglect complaints phoned in to a state hotline.

Investigators are also required to have "face to face contact" with the children in question. But Saul and Doreen Vanderwoude, the children's grandparents, denied them access to the children, Seals wrote.

The judge sent his e-mail to a dozen people on a "court-media committee." The committee, which works to foster programs to help troubled juveniles, includes members from the media, child welfare and judicial professions.

The case illustrates "DCF's plight of 'damned if you do and damned if you don't,'" wrote Seals.

His comments came three days after the body of Coralrose Fullwood, 6, was found in a wooded area within two blocks of her North Port home. Coralrose had shared the home with four of her six siblings and her parents, Dale and Ellen-Beth Fullwood.

The family had moved to the home from Cape Coral two months ago.

The DCF investigators had become concerned that Coralrose's surviving siblings, aged 4, 8, 10 and 12, might be "in danger" if they continued to reside with their parents.

In a so-called "shelter hearing" held Tuesday in Sarasota, DCF and North Port police officials testified that the Fullwoods' North Port home was filthy, littered with feces and infested with cockroaches.

Kim Poke, a DCF mental health counselor and investigative court specialist, testified that the DCF moved to take the children to investigate "past and current injuries."

The Fullwoods, however, had relocated the children Monday to their grandparents' house in Fort Myers.

When DCF officials arrived at the grandparents' house to interview the children, a legal dispute followed. Saul Sanderwoude said he contacted his attorney, who advised him that a court order would be required for DCF to talk to the children.

The DCF investigators waited in their van and deputies were summoned.

Meanwhile, news reporters who happened to contact Saul Sanderwoude at the time heard of his anguish over the DCF's pending action. Before long, TV news crews were on the scene to capture the emotions of family members as the DCF investigators drove off with the children.

Sarasota-based Circuit Court Judge Rick DeFuria ruled later Tuesday the children would be returned to the guardianship of their grandparents, but not to their parents.

DeFuria ordered the family to create a plan to clean the parents' home.

"You are all family," he said, addressing the 14 individuals gathered at the hearing. "Help each other out; help them clean."

Seals wrote in his e-mail that his comments about the case were given to the media to foster a "clearer understanding, I hope, of why DCF had to appear as though they were home-wreckers.

"The grandparents provided good photo ops to the media and inflammatory statements for broadcast and print, and I'm not blaming the media for covering it," Seals wrote. "But those photo ops and inflammatory comments came your way compliments of the parents and grandparents, not DCF."

Seals said DCF is required by law to respond to child abuse hotline calls. The DCF is also obligated to obtain court orders to enter homes with law enforcement officers to determine the safety of the child, he said.

Seals granted the order in the Fullwood case, calling it "a no-brainer."

"DCF does not have to present the judge with evidence that the children were actually being harmed," he said. "The only showing required was that they were denied access to the children."

Had the DCF turned away from such a duty, and had the children subsequently been harmed, DCF would have been crucified, Seals said.

The court-media committee members include representatives from Gannett, the News-Press, the Bonita News, Camelot Care, ABC-7, Florida Gulf Coast University and the DCF.

Seals asked in his e-mail that he not be named as the source of the information about the DCF's actions.

Seals could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

Saul Vanderwoude, contacted by phone Wednesday, declined comment, citing the advice of the family's attorney, John Coleman.

The DCF is prohibited by law from discussing details in ongoing abuse or neglect investigations, said Kelly Kelley, a supervisor over DCF child protection investigations.

Anyone, from police officers to neighbors, can report child abuse or neglect by calling the DCF's hotline at 1-800-96ABUSE.

Kelley said DCF investigators typically don't decide to seize children from their families until they visit the home and observe indications that children are in danger. The indications can include visible bruises, intoxicated parents or deplorable living conditions.

But the fact that children reside in a dirty house does not necessarily mandate their removal, Kelley said. Investigators also consider whether the children are so young that they're likely to be crawling in unsanitary conditions or to be vulnerable to rodent and insect bites, she said.

Investigators also consider the prior history of the parents.

If removal appears appropriate, investigators discuss the case with their supervisors and lawyers.

More often, investigators work to refer parents to programs to help them become better parents.

If investigators are denied access to children in an abuse investigation, "obviously, that's going to elevate concern," Kelley said.

The city of North Port has never had to respond to the Fullwoods' North Port home, located in the 2700 block of Calabash Street, prior to the 9-1-1 call reporting Coralrose missing last Sunday morning, according to a North Port Police detective.

However, Cape Coral Police responded more than a dozen times to the family's previous home there for code violations and other complaints. The family lived in the 400 block of 43rd Lane until moving to North Port two months ago.

http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/092109/tp1ch6.htm?date=092109&story=tp1ch6.htm
 

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