GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU Law Professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #9 *arrests*

[vislaw]

My two cents ...

There will always be disagreement over whether charges should have been brought against the Adelsons prior to this time. Willie Miegs made the decision not to pursue CA or DA and the record is clear that there were differences of opinion within his office. Nevertheless, it was his decision to make and he chose not to go forward. There was every reason to believe either KM or SG (or both) would flip and, thus, waiting to pursue the Adelsons was rational in that sense (had KM taken the deal and turned State's evidence, we'd all agree the decision was sound). Be wary of exercising hindsight.

At the same time, many experienced prosecutors agree that there was (and still remains) more than enough circumstantial evidence to gain a conviction against CA and possibly DA. As we just saw, juries are always a roll of the dice and you can never be certain what the outcome will be (hence, some justification for taking one's time and deferring filing charges against the Adelsons). It is entertaining to weigh in and express opinions, but we simply do not know all of the factors in play at this time. My forensics company is currently handling murder/manslaughter cases with the prosecution in San Francisco and Dallas and I have had the opportunity to ask several assistant prosecutors in each office whether they believe charges would be filed. Their observations lead me to conclude that, if this were a betting proposition, I would place a large sum of money on the eventual prosecution of, at least, CA. You may disagree, of course, and that is what makes this discussion forum so interesting.

Anybody who claims "CA will walk" or "CA will be convicted" should be taken with a grain of salt -- just as anyone who says "CA will be charged" or "CA will definitely not be charged" doesn't really know. Prosecutors must weigh many elements before making a decision to commit the State's resources and juries are a crap shoot and always will be.

 

[justice1960]

Can you imagine the stealthy legal Markus team that would be fighting for CA should he be arrested (and brought to trial)? Little and big legal eagles and wannabe's all jumping on eager to assist. And, not one stack of stapled greenbacks would be spared in the cause. The state may have a wonderful legal team and maybe there is talent but how would it actually stack-up? Does the state have such a team and deep pockets??

Also, I wonder about the jurors and their eventual verdict at KM's 2nd trial. Do we have a lot of confidence after listening to the giggle juror?

Sadly, money just might be the name of the "entire game". (Which includes partial financial assistance for KM's defense). Well, even if I'm wrong... It is still something to think about. ETA:. I hope someone will hurry and post all the reasons why I'm wrong. What I'm thinking isn't pretty

is this a joke "even tara kawass" ?? are we suppose to rely on the statement of a defense attorney working with the adelsons?? we saw that a jury already was convinced of the adelsons' guilt. i have some, albeit limited, experience in analyzing such cases and I would venture to say the evidence as it exists now totally suffices to get a conviction against charlie adelson, and probably also donna and wendi.

That is exactly what she said and the State did not refute it...end result for me="Believe it"

 

[Gypsy Road]

I was taken aback by the ages as well. I also hope more men are on the next jury and I am a woman.

I also did not like how the Judge allowed the jurors to render SG's verdict then read the Allen Charge for them to continue deliberations.

It was apparent by the one juror's interview that nothing was going to change her mind but in her interview she did say when they originally brought their inability to reach a decision to the attention of the judge it was at 10G 2NG.

I am sure hearing and watching KM sob did not help....in the long run it does not matter. But real curious to the reasoning the one juror switched her vote so easily and quickly after going back into deliberations. She may have just been sick of the one smug juror. I know I would have been.

That’s another mind boggling thing. How in the world does someone switch from guilty to non guilty in a matter of minutes in a trial so important. Were these jurors just tired and worn down and wanting to just go home so they just gave up? I mean...besides Miss Giggle Pants - she was just biased and the six letter word that begins with an S. IMHO JMO and all that jazz

 

[dotr]

@Satchie What you've described is exactly what they're doing in this case. The problem is KM is not cooperating. No one can fathom why she's not cooperating because in any other case a person in her position would. So State is stuck! They can't go up the chain to CA without KM.

Although it seems like KM worships at the alter of $$, could it be that she is sticking to her guns and not cooperating for some other "higher" reason?
Something that allows her to lie and feel morally superior for doing so?
If she was a Latin queen or head of some other crime syndicate, we would have heard about it, right?
Could she possibly share the same interests as her SIL, Samantha Chez-Magbanua, if so- could she be frightened into silence, or emboldened - believing that a magical and expensive spell will protect her?
complete speculation, imo.

 

[Weki]

That is exactly what she said and the State did not refute it...end result for me="Believe it"

“Believe it”? Lmao. I didn’t expect that!

 

[GordonX]

If KM was willing to be a conduit for murder for only $25K, surely she'd be willing to sit in jail for 3.5 years and keep her mouth shut for $1M+.

 

[Weki]

I think KM is not cooperating bc she doesn’t want to admit to doing such a heinous thing. I genuinely believe it’s that simple. Initially I thought she was involved in other criminal activity and didn’t want to risk exposure but that was before she testified.

 

[justice1960]

My two cents ...

There will always be disagreement over whether charges should have been brought against the Adelsons prior to this time. Willie Miegs made the decision not to pursue CA or DA and the record is clear that there were differences of opinion within his office. Nevertheless, it was his decision to make and he chose not to go forward. There was every reason to believe either KM or SG (or both) would flip and, thus, waiting to pursue the Adelsons was rational in that sense (had KM taken the deal and turned State's evidence, we'd all agree the decision was sound). Be wary of exercising hindsight.

At the same time, many experienced prosecutors agree that there was (and still remains) more than enough circumstantial evidence to gain a conviction against CA and possibly DA. As we just saw, juries are always a roll of the dice and you can never be certain what the outcome will be (hence, some justification for taking one's time and deferring filing charges against the Adelsons). It is entertaining to weigh in and express opinions, but we simply do not know all of the factors in play at this time. My forensics company is currently handling murder/manslaughter cases with the prosecution in San Francisco and Dallas and I have had the opportunity to ask several assistant prosecutors in each office whether they believe charges would be filed. Their observations lead me to conclude that, if this were a betting proposition, I would place a large sum of money on the eventual prosecution of, at least, CA. You may disagree, of course, and that is what makes this discussion forum so interesting.

Anybody who claims "CA will walk" or "CA will be convicted" should be taken with a grain of salt -- just as anyone who says "CA will be charged" or "CA will definitely not be charged" doesn't really know. Prosecutors must weigh many elements before making a decision to commit the State's resources and juries are a crap shoot and always will be.

Great observation. What's the rush? That's why when in doubt do nothing...They know they done wrong and anybody with a decent set of scruples has to agree...Right now with what has been released...They are already prisoners in their own minds wondering when the next shoe will drop on them. The part of the conspiracy, the hands on people who actually did the murders, (KM included) are incarcerated at the present time. IMO. the two, WA/CA are not an actual threat to society at large and are not going to go out and commit another murder in their lifetime again. The State can take their time and attempt to build a solid and convincing case against them. The State is dealing with a criminal(s) who know all the rules of evidence and tricks of the legal trade, that is, at least one of them. The perfect murder mind set. Better to be steady and cautious and attempt to get it right on the first crack at them...Then have them walk off on a technicality. MOO.

 

[GordonX]

I think KM is not cooperating bc she doesn’t want to admit to doing such a heinous thing. I genuinely believe it’s that simple. Initially I thought she was involved in other criminal activity and didn’t want to risk exposure but that was before she testified.

I don't think it bothers her in the least bit. She's a wannabe gangsta, hustler too. Listen to the wiretaps. Look at who she surrounded herself with. This is all about the promise of MONEY.

 

[dizzychick]

Isn't it a crime to apply as an indigent person and fees paid on the backs of Florida taxpayers and still have funding coming in from wealthy people behind the scenes?
I would think all Lawyers involved in a possible scam like this would be prosecuted and disbarred in the State of Florida. A Lawyer with any brains at all wouldn't touch a situation like that with a "ten foot pole." IMO.

I posted a while back about my lunch with a criminal lawyer in Dallas in the 80's, he told me he was offered a lot of cash in a brown paper bag and turned the guy down since it was drug money maybe I cannot remember what the criminal had done but he said he couldn't take it.

 

[justice1960]

I think KM is not cooperating bc she doesn’t want to admit to doing such a heinous thing. I genuinely believe it’s that simple. Initially I thought she was involved in other criminal activity and didn’t want to risk exposure but that was before she testified.

According to previous reports She supposedly had a perfect criminal record and wants to keep it that way. IMO. Maybe she did because she never got caught...but this time she was dealing with one of the best legal minds in the Country (DM) and we found out she has been a criminal all along.

 

[justice1960]

I don't think it bothers her in the least bit. She's a wannabe gangsta too. Listen to the wiretaps. Look at who she surrounded herself with. This is all about the promise of MONEY.

Good job, Gordon! ...Queen Katie akin to King Tato. We don't know half of the people this crew (KM, SG, LR) has put in the ground. Come do a job with me. SG to LR. Routine behavior and the main source of their under the table income...SG Solutions, Inc.

 

[DTPeke]

That’s another mind boggling thing. How in the world does someone switch from guilty to non guilty in a matter of minutes in a trial so important. Were these jurors just tired and worn down and wanting to just go home so they just gave up? I mean...besides Miss Giggle Pants - she was just biased and the six letter word that begins with an S. IMHO JMO and all that jazz

Yes mind boogling to say the least. The whole thing gave me PSTD. Like vislaw said upthread it is a roll of the dice.

She mentioned bias so many times. Scary.

I was on a minor case in Houston (and when I say minor don't think I did not take it seriously). It was a DWI that involved no accident or injuries. Young girl, night on the town basically gets pulled over for speeding. Police smell alchohol. Failed all roadside tests. Refused breathalyzer. She is taken in where more tests are done and filmed. Warrant for blood issued. Blood taken on video. Long story short we hung because of one crazy lady that just could not believe what she was seeing and those were her words. I just don't believe my lying eyes. Thought the blood which came back 2x over limit was somehow tampered with at the lab. No evidence or even insuination at trial blood was tampered. Witnesses testified they were drinking with her earlier. This lady held court with other jurors....blah blah blah we learned all about her, her husband, how she ubers everywhere...her preferred restaurants.

and surprise surprise she Hated me! Yelled at me. Other jurors came to me the next morning. Apologizing.

A week of my life taken. Criminal court building in downtown Houston is a cesspool. God awful experience....and as I am waiting on my ride home from court very scary late night. Judge made us stay past 9:30 at night. She wants to hug me!

sorry OT had to get that out of my system

 

[justice1960]

Thanks.

 

[dizzychick]

Vote was 9G 3NG

by the hair of her chinny chin chin...won't be so lucky next time, she best make hay while the sun shines IMO

 

[justice1960]

If KM was willing to be a conduit for murder for only $25K, surely she'd be willing to sit in jail for 3.5 years and keep her mouth shut for $1M+.

$25k. IMO. That was her first of many payments to come. Last count before she was arrested was $72K and job with the Adelsons is not included. Above and beyond the $70K SG/LR split up. Remember the million which was offered to DM on the custody issue? That's how far these sociopaths were willing to go to get their way. KM may be visualizing in her half baked mind that she is earning 125K per year as pay for her incarceration. Why else would a person guilty beyond a reasonable doubt sit there that long and not cooperate? MOO.

 

[kay74]

So if KM is holding out so she gets her money from CA somebody needs to tell this woman that he will be brought to trial regardless of her and put away and she will get NO MONEY. Her poor kids too, her brother has no mother for his own kids she's in prison KM's mother is dead so who is taking care of her kids and how are they being taken care of?!? Her kids are her future. Someone tell her to wake up.

 

[DTPeke]

Did any of the jailhouse snitches or Jessica end up taking the stand?

 

[Weki]

Yes mind boogling to say the least. The whole thing gave me PSTD. Like vislaw said upthread it is a roll of the dice.

She mentioned bias so many times. Scary.

I was on a minor case in Houston (and when I say minor don't think I did not take it seriously). It was a DWI that involved no accident or injuries. Young girl, night on the town basically gets pulled over for speeding. Police smell alchohol. Failed all roadside tests. Refused breathalyzer. She is taken in where more tests are done and filmed. Warrant for blood issued. Blood taken on video. Long story short we hung because of one crazy lady that just could not believe what she was seeing and those were her words. I just don't believe my lying eyes. Thought the blood which came back 2x over limit was somehow tampered with at the lab. No evidence or even insuination at trial blood was tampered. Witnesses testified they were drinking with her earlier. This lady held court with other jurors....blah blah blah we learned all about her, her husband, how she ubers everywhere...her preferred restaurants.

and surprise surprise she Hated me! Yelled at me. Other jurors came to me the next morning. Apologizing.

A week of my life taken. Criminal court building in downtown Houston is a cesspool. God awful experience....and as I am waiting on my ride home from court very scary late night. Judge made us stay past 9:30 at night. She wants to hug me!

sorry OT had to get that out of my system

Oh boy! I totally relate to this! I had a psycho on my jury too. Similar behavior. She refused to acknowledge any of the evidence. Impossible to deal with. It was torture!

 

[justice1960]

Yes mind boogling to say the least. The whole thing gave me PSTD. Like vislaw said upthread it is a roll of the dice.

She mentioned bias so many times. Scary.

I was on a minor case in Houston (and when I say minor don't think I did not take it seriously). It was a DWI that involved no accident or injuries. Young girl, night on the town basically gets pulled over for speeding. Police smell alchohol. Failed all roadside tests. Refused breathalyzer. She is taken in where more tests are done and filmed. Warrant for blood issued. Blood taken on video. Long story short we hung because of one crazy lady that just could not believe what she was seeing and those were her words. I just don't believe my lying eyes. Thought the blood which came back 2x over limit was somehow tampered with at the lab. No evidence or even insuination at trial blood was tampered. Witnesses testified they were drinking with her earlier. This lady held court with other jurors....blah blah blah we learned all about her, her husband, how she ubers everywhere...her preferred restaurants.

and surprise surprise she Hated me! Yelled at me. Other jurors came to me the next morning. Apologizing.

A week of my life taken. Criminal court building in downtown Houston is a cesspool. God awful experience....and as I am waiting on my ride home from court very scary late night. Judge made us stay past 9:30 at night. She wants to hug me!

sorry OT had to get that out of my system

I believe one of the Jurors switched right after the Guilty verdict was read against SG and after KM reacted by sobbing and crying when they returned to the jury room after the Allen Charge was read to them