Resolved FL - Fort Lauderdale, WhtFem UP7840, 45-65, notes in Arabic, Apr'03

[KivaSupporter]

How long does it take for a body to fully decompose? Is one week a reasonable time? I am afraid I don't know.

What about clothing? Would one expect some decomposed clothing including shoes within one week? A wedding ring? A purse/bag? A beach towel? Anything like it, if one were going for a swim or sunbathing?

What would one expect if a person committed suicide? Being dressed in a swim suit, pants, and jacket?

I am confused and cannot understand this.

Dear friends, members of the WS forum, please give us your opinion. Your opinion and your way of thinking are very valuable.

Personally, I realize that whatever I am saying is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. It may be right or wrong. Please help me/us solve this case. Thank you so much. I/we respect you and need your help. Thank you so much!!

Milky mama, I thought about this, too.

If I were to commit suicide, I certainly would not wear a swimming suit, pants and a jacket. I would wear it to cover myself up until I got to the swimming pool (apartments' pool?) or a nearby beach. If I wanted to commit suicide, the last thing on my mind would be swimming or sunbathing.

I also wonder about one source stating she had committed suicide overdosing on prescription pain medicine.

If she did commit suicide, was it by such an overdose or by cutting her wrists and neck? Somehow I think that would have happened prior to her suicide attempt, if indeed did happen.

Cutting her wrists - prior suicide attempt due to depression or?

Slashing her neck to commit suicide? Sorry, I cannot imagine that. I have NEVER heard of anyone commiting suicide that way. To me, slashing her neck means someone tried to kill her at some previous time. Slashing necks was a common murder during the war. As far as I know, nobody survived it. A slashed neck which she survived means torture to me. Something similar threatening to kill someone with a gun one knows is not loaded.

Horrible but it did happen and it was common.

Your opinions and comments, please?

Please note there were no such children as Pero and Zira. Pero is most likely the deceased woman's son-in-law. There is nobody named Zira. That was a mistake. Hope it helps.

Thank you all so much.

 

[carbuff]

I did some reading about this for another case I was looking into.

Slashing one's own throat is not a common method of suicide, but it does happen. More common for men than for women.

It's also fairly common for people to take an overdose of medication (or get drunk), then slash their wrists or cover their head with a bag or some similar method. The idea is that it cuts the pain -- and also that if one method fails the other will work.

Not expressing an opinion about this poor woman, though. I'm not an expert and there's not a lot of evidence.

 

[KivaSupporter]

I did some reading about this for another case I was looking into.

Slashing one's own throat is not a common method of suicide, but it does happen. More common for men than for women.

It's also fairly common for people to take an overdose of medication (or get drunk), then slash their wrists or cover their head with a bag or some similar method. The idea is that it cuts the pain -- and also that if one method fails the other will work.

Not expressing an opinion about this poor woman, though. I'm not an expert and there's not a lot of evidence.

Thank you so much for your opinion. I respect it. Like I said, I could be wrong or right. I am not an expert and I do not claim I know all about it, either. The important thing is for us to work together to solve this.

Thank you.

 

[milkymama]

If the note was written to her, could her husband be named Pero?

I can't imagine someone setting out to kill themselves, first cutting their neck and wrists, then OD'ing on pills, in a bathing suit underneath regular clothes, and all of this in a parking lot - which apparently was not her residence as no one could identify her.

 

[carbuff]

If the note was written to her, could her husband be named Pero?

I can't imagine someone setting out to kill themselves, first cutting their neck and wrists, then OD'ing on pills, in a bathing suit underneath regular clothes, and all of this in a parking lot - which apparently was not her residence as no one could identify her.

It makes sense to me that if a person was going to cut their neck and wrists, they would take a good dose of painkillers first. But I can't quite figure out the parking lot, as the reports say she was there for about a week, and in an advanced state of decay. One of the upthread posts about the location indicated the buildings might have been undergoing renovation at some point -- I wonder if that's why she chose it?

 

[Magnum P.E.]

How long does it take for a body to fully decompose? Is one week a reasonable time? I am afraid I don't know.

Three months to a year to fully skeletonize. In warm conditions like Florida probably closer to the three months.
One of the curious things about this case is that the reported condition of the body would not seem to match the listed time interval from death to discovery of remains.

 

[KivaSupporter]

If the note was written to her, could her husband be named Pero?

I can't imagine someone setting out to kill themselves, first cutting their neck and wrists, then OD'ing on pills, in a bathing suit underneath regular clothes, and all of this in a parking lot - which apparently was not her residence as no one could identify her.

I don't think so. If that was a letter to her daughter, she would have said "your father" or "your dad". It is culturally improper to call parents by their names.

 

[milkymama]

I was wondering if the UID's mom wrote it to the UID - vs it being a suicide note written by the UID herself? (Making Pero the husband of the UID.)

 

[KivaSupporter]

I was wondering if the UID's mom wrote it to the UID - vs it being a suicide note written by the UID herself? (Making Pero the husband of the UID.)

I am sorry, I misunderstood you.

Yes, that is a possibility.

Thanks.

 

[reasypeasy]

Maybe she owned no underwear that she felt was presentable, and she knew her body would be looked at, so she wore her bathing suit instead of buying fresh underwear just to die in? Not having any clean underwear in good repair is something that tends to happen to depressed people.

 

[carbuff]

Maybe she owned no underwear that she felt was presentable, and she knew her body would be looked at, so she wore her bathing suit instead of buying fresh underwear just to die in? Not having any clean underwear in good repair is something that tends to happen to depressed people.

Good thought.

Also, it's Florida. Many people wear bathing suits all the time. My mother-in-law used to go swimming, come home to shower, and then she'd change into -- a clean bathing suit.

Or maybe she wanted one last swim before she took the final step.

 

[KivaSupporter]

Is there anyone here who is familiar with the area, also including Jacksonville and St. Petersburg, who has an idea how to contact the Bosnian community in each of these areas?

Perhaps by contacting such communities and spreading the information about the UID, she could be brought back to her family and respectfully buried.

Any ideas?

 

[deca]

Is there anyone here who is familiar with the area, also including Jacksonville and St. Petersburg, who has an idea how to contact the Bosnian community in each of these areas?

Perhaps by contacting such communities and spreading the information about the UID, she could be brought back to her family and respectfully buried.

Any ideas?

When I was hunting for clues I saw that there are quite a few colleges/universities in the area that have refugee/ center for studies/ center for cultural studies type things for the Bosnian community. Some professors specialize in that study. Perhaps you can contact one of them/ one of those groups and ask?

 

[carbuff]

Is there anyone here who is familiar with the area, also including Jacksonville and St. Petersburg, who has an idea how to contact the Bosnian community in each of these areas?

Perhaps by contacting such communities and spreading the information about the UID, she could be brought back to her family and respectfully buried.

Any ideas?

The articles I posted upthread have the names of several people involved in the refugee settlements (Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL FL -Fort Lauderdale, WhtFem, 45-65, Maybe Croatian w/Daughter "Zira", Apr'03)

 

[carbuff]

She has a reconstruction now. https://identifyus.org/en/cases/7840




Three ruleouts listed: Bonnie Kelly, Polly McLean, and Parley Pate.

 

[Mira_Eg]

When I was hunting for clues I saw that there are quite a few colleges/universities in the area that have refugee/ center for studies/ center for cultural studies type things for the Bosnian community. Some professors specialize in that study. Perhaps you can contact one of them/ one of those groups and ask?

The prayer: - It is a prayer in Arabic using the Turkish pronunciation for some vowels. Many Muslims in the Balkans would mainly learn it (amongst other teachings and rituals) this way; given the cultural impact/ influence of the former Ottoman empire/ rule on this region.
- It's almost copied literally from a book not transcribed from memory. JMO
- My guess is that the woman was a Muslim who was born and lived in the Balkans before coming to the U.S. JMO

- The bathing suit: It's mentioned that she was wearing a trouser and blouse as an outfit. Some women may wear a one-piece swimming suit as an undergarment beneath outer clothes. This is probably normal.

- Many refugees and asylum seekers from Former Yugoslavia have been resettled through a very long process that involved the UNHCR and IOM, In 1993, US announced that it would receive more numbers of refugees from this area ( over the usual quota) . My guess is that she probably came over around this time 1994 - 1996) max. a year or two after the Dayton agreement.
- Maybe, some one could be able to check the names of families who settled in this state around this time.

 

[Shin Masamura]

Namus profile is down, can't find any confirmation as to why

 

[carbuff]

I hope she's been identified. But I've run into more than one instance where an older profile has been temporarily invisible, then reappeared later.

 

[Al Ka]

Oh, I really hope she has been finally identified. I briefly checked around for updates but can't find any so far.

 

[Zana Visnjic]

Hi Ya'll
I am reaching out to inform you about the status of this case. My name is Zana V. and I am a daughter of the woman that has been found in 2003. The Nam case #7840. I had picked up my mothers remains back in March of this year 2018.
My mother took off in March of 2003 leaving behind to myself my younger brother and our uncle a note each. In the note she wrote that if anyone asked for her that she had left for Canada.

Moths passed by and no contact from her ever arrived. I went to the police station and tried to report a missing person but because I had the note they told me that she had a right to leave and that they had no rights to go after her due to her not being mentally ill. My mother had never displayed suicidal tendencies. And never had it crossed my mind that she would try and commit suicide.

Years have passed by and my father decided to get his pension, the clerk kept asking him for his wife for which he replied that he had no idea of her whereabouts. A friend of my older brothers wife that works for FBI found the NAM 7840 and emailed to my older brother and then and he gave it to me. I got in touch with investigator W.C. who then told me that they had the fingerprints of the woman but for some reason the fingerprints were never sent to immigration to try and find out the identity. She was a USA citizen and her fingerprints would have been on file if they sent them when she was found but in 2017 there were no longer any records. So I had to submit my DNA sample and the test came positive match.

She was found in the area we knew not of anyone, I still don't know what was she doing there or who she could possibly be there with. She was a very positive person an optimist and very intelligent. She disliked one piece of bathing suits and would never wear one under her clothes. She was found with her jeans, bathing suit and shirt but no shoes, glasses or any other personal items. She had a decent knowledge of medicine being that my father is a doctor and I don't believe that she would have taken all that medicine and then cut herself like that...

The letter that was found with her was from her mother who was a devoted Muslim, passed away in 2012 due to stomach cancer but my mother nor her three sisters were religious nor did they speak Arabic. Regardless to that my grandma liked to give her notes with doves written in Latin so she could say them when in trouble or stress. The letter also has notes in Bosnian because we are from former Yugoslavia and the names Pero is her husband and Ziva is not a name it means Alive. We say "ziva bila" it means may you be alive in direct translation wishing good health.
I don't understand how could she lay in residential area for over a week and no one noticed a body until it started to decompose. How could she have wondered away without her glasses she had a very thick prescription.
Her sister passed away the same moth from lymphoma and I can see that she might have taken pills from her but still nothing makes sense.
She was fifty years old at the time born December 22, 1952 her name was Zulejha nick name Lela

I see a huge thread going about this case so I thought you all would want this information. I have her remains cremated in my apartment and at some point will most likely scatter them either in Atlantic or take them back to Bosnia. I have not decided yet. Her remaining sister told me to do as I wish. I cant let her go yet I have been waiting on her since 2003