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Hey Guardians,

It’s time for the next Guardian Zoom call, and we’re splitting it into two sessions so more people can join.

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Tricia
 
  • #2,242
I also think the fact that Wendi thought about buying a home in Tally and had resigned herself to staying put works in her favor. That she was conspired upon by Donna and Charlie out of going that route would be an important detail in a potential Wendi trial.
Unless Charlie were to testify that he told Wendi that he planned to kill Dan and therefore she shouldn't buy the house. That would be more of a bombshell than Rob's testimony was.
 
  • #2,243
I may have my timeline mixed up but I believe at the time that Charlie (in collusion with Donna behind Wendi's back) talked Wendi out of purchasing a home in Tally the family was still trying to bribe Danny with the 1 million, no?

I also think the fact that Wendi thought about buying a home in Tally and had resigned herself to staying put works in her favor. That she was conspired upon by Donna and Charlie out of going that route would be an important detail in a potential Wendi trial.

According to a Gemini search – the 1-million dollar bribe email was June 25th 2013. The text where Charlie told Donna he convinced Wendi out of purchasing a home in Tally was Oct 31 2013. Interestingly, Oct 31 is the exact same day that Charlie sent Wendi the picture of him and Katie. I know many people believe this photo was a coded signal to Wendi that Charlie had successfully secured the hitman.

I agree 100% that the text exchange between Charlie & Donna about "convincing" Wendi not to purchase a home is very favorable to Wendi. I have mentioned this previously, and believe I got pushback that it was part of the plan to throw off investigators, and that having Wendi actively search for real estate was part of a grand scheme to divert attention her way as a potential suspect. It's similar to the reverse psychology argument / logic - "If she was in on Dan’s murder, she wouldn’t have been looking for real estate."

It seems on social media anything exculpatory regarding Wendi has a convoluted explanation. I have always said I’m 50/50 on Wendi's direct involvement… but the more I participate in this forum and apply basic logic to some of the main narratives, I’m starting to believe it's more like 51/49! lol
 
  • #2,244
Wendi is a master manipulator. Of course she told the hitman story for a reason. Just like she innocently tossed out Dan's gfs ex husband as a possibility or JL. It was no accident she got her manipulated friend to echo her when she stopped by the interview. Ditto on the writing class. You cannot believe a thing she says. All planned to demonstrate her innocence.
 
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Unless Charlie were to testify that he told Wendi that he planned to kill Dan and therefore she shouldn't buy the house. That would be more of a bombshell than Rob's testimony was.

IMO, Charlie is going to need more than his word. If he was somehow able to produce evidence of a physical message he sent to Wendi re any part of the plans to murder Dan, different story. I don’t see how close to 12 years after the murder, especially since he has already been locked up for 4 years, that he would be able to produce any physical evidence of Wendi’s involvement. Assuming he would be willing to flip, I don’t see them offering him any type on deal on word alone. If he decided to flip, I guarantee they’d listen, I just think it’s unrealistic that he’d be able to produce any physical evidence of Wendi's involvement.
 
  • #2,246
At some point, Charlie might want to testify just for revenge, with no other inducement. He seems like that kind of person.
 
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According to a Gemini search – the 1-million dollar bribe email was June 25th 2013. The text where Charlie told Donna he convinced Wendi out of purchasing a home in Tally was Oct 31 2013. Interestingly, Oct 31 is the exact same day that Charlie sent Wendi the picture of him and Katie. I know many people believe this photo was a coded signal to Wendi that Charlie had successfully secured the hitman.

I agree 100% that the text exchange between Charlie & Donna about "convincing" Wendi not to purchase a home is very favorable to Wendi. I have mentioned this previously, and believe I got pushback that it was part of the plan to throw off investigators, and that having Wendi actively search for real estate was part of a grand scheme to divert attention her way as a potential suspect. It's similar to the reverse psychology argument / logic - "If she was in on Dan’s murder, she wouldn’t have been looking for real estate."

It seems on social media anything exculpatory regarding Wendi has a convoluted explanation. I have always said I’m 50/50 on Wendi's direct involvement… but the more I participate in this forum and apply basic logic to some of the main narratives, I’m starting to believe it's more like 51/49! lol
Respectfully wondering if there might be another possible read on some of this? And granted, I am not following this case as close as I once did.

SBMFF…. On these points…..

“I agree 100% that the text exchange between Charlie & Donna about "convincing" Wendi not to purchase a home is very favorable to Wendi.”
“If she was in on Dan’s murder, she wouldn’t have been looking for real estate.”

And assume for argument’s sake all three (CA, DA, WA) were in on the plan. Couldn’t one have also tried to use the above arguments to try and cast interest away from all three individuals? And not just WA?

Similarly, if WA was searching for alternative residences in advance of the plan or slaying, then maybe the above were also used to try and deflect interest in any plan from anyone involved. MOO
 
  • #2,248
IMO, Charlie is going to need more than his word. If he was somehow able to produce evidence of a physical message he sent to Wendi re any part of the plans to murder Dan, different story. I don’t see how close to 12 years after the murder, especially since he has already been locked up for 4 years, that he would be able to produce any physical evidence of Wendi’s involvement. Assuming he would be willing to flip, I don’t see them offering him any type on deal on word alone. If he decided to flip, I guarantee they’d listen, I just think it’s unrealistic that he’d be able to produce any physical evidence of Wendi's involvement.
His word wouldn't mean much. But call log history showing an unusual pattern of calls with him and WA is something that could be used to implicate WA.
 
  • #2,249
Respectfully wondering if there might be another possible read on some of this? And granted, I am not following this case as close as I once did.

SBMFF…. On these points…..

“I agree 100% that the text exchange between Charlie & Donna about "convincing" Wendi not to purchase a home is very favorable to Wendi.”
“If she was in on Dan’s murder, she wouldn’t have been looking for real estate.”

And assume for argument’s sake all three (CA, DA, WA) were in on the plan. Couldn’t one have also tried to use the above arguments to try and cast interest away from all three individuals? And not just WA?

Similarly, if WA was searching for alternative residences in advance of the plan or slaying, then maybe the above were also used to try and deflect interest in any plan from anyone involved. MOO

It’s always good to look at these things from multiple angles and there is evidence of very obvious texts as well phone calls between Charlie and Donna that are very clear attempts to throw off investigators, so its not a silly argument. However all those examples are post murder.

The texts I’m referencing re Charlie convincing Wendi not to purchase the real estate in Tally were in October of 2013 – 9 months before Dan was murdered. Here is my main hurdle with the theory that all three of them (CA, DA, WA) were in on it and intentionally planted those texts and the real estate search to cast suspicion away from themselves. If Charlie and Donna were planting a fake text conversation to create an alibi for all of them, they did an absolutely terrible job. It doesn't deflect interest from Charlie and Donna at all – in fact, the prosecution heavily used that exact text exchange to help convict Charlie! It was a major piece of evidence against him. It really only serves as an alibi for Wendi.

To me, it comes down to Occam's Razor. What requires fewer leaps of logic? That they orchestrated fake real estate hunts (Wendi looked into multiple homes) and scripted private family text messages to build a future alibi? Or that Wendi genuinely wanted to buy a house, and Charlie and Donna manipulated her out of it because they were plotting the hit behind her back?
 
  • #2,250
It’s always good to look at these things from multiple angles and there is evidence of very obvious texts as well phone calls between Charlie and Donna that are very clear attempts to throw off investigators, so its not a silly argument. However all those examples are post murder.

The texts I’m referencing re Charlie convincing Wendi not to purchase the real estate in Tally were in October of 2013 – 9 months before Dan was murdered. Here is my main hurdle with the theory that all three of them (CA, DA, WA) were in on it and intentionally planted those texts and the real estate search to cast suspicion away from themselves. If Charlie and Donna were planting a fake text conversation to create an alibi for all of them, they did an absolutely terrible job. It doesn't deflect interest from Charlie and Donna at all – in fact, the prosecution heavily used that exact text exchange to help convict Charlie! It was a major piece of evidence against him. It really only serves as an alibi for Wendi.

To me, it comes down to Occam's Razor. What requires fewer leaps of logic? That they orchestrated fake real estate hunts (Wendi looked into multiple homes) and scripted private family text messages to build a future alibi? Or that Wendi genuinely wanted to buy a house, and Charlie and Donna manipulated her out of it because they were plotting the hit behind her back?
Thanks @Going Rogue …. and yes and absolutely agree. Multiple thoughts and perspectives help. And I appreciate the input and ideas. And you are also right about a simplest solution usually being the logical and often the ultimate scenario.

Also quite true about differences in pre slaying and post slaying and actions of alleged individuals. I also keep thinking post slaying, how poorly all was played by some involved in this case regarding ‘the bump’.

Time will tell it seems. And IMO hope prosecutors are looking at all angles and evidence as I am sure they are. And that they just might have a couple of other things not yet known to the public. MOO
 
  • #2,251
His word wouldn't mean much. But call log history showing an unusual pattern of calls with him and WA is something that could be used to implicate WA.

Which is exactly why I said he needs ‘physical evidence’…and as I said, it seems extremely unlikely that he will be able to produce any physical evidence. Also, just to note you are proposing a hypothetical scenario of this unusual pattern of calls… this is theory out of thin air and, respectfully, you keep pitching it like its a know fact that hasn’t ‘yet’ been proven. At least that’s the impression I get.
 
  • #2,252
Wendi is a master manipulator. Of course she told the hitman story for a reason. Just like she innocently tossed out Dan's gfs ex husband as a possibility or JL. It was no accident she got her manipulated friend to echo her when she stopped by the interview. Ditto on the writing class. You cannot believe a thing she says. All planned to demonstrate her innocence.

There are some avid followers of the case are not aligned with the theory Wendi is intelligent enough to have been the master manipulator… so I’m genuinely curious what you believe to be the reason that Wendi confided in Jeff about Charlie’s past plans to hire a hitman days before the murder? It would be good to get a fresh perspective. – I haven’t seen a lot of your post in the past so I’m asking with genuine interest.

Personally, I believe that if Wendi was an active participant in the plot to murder Dan, it’s so incredibly risky, counterintuitive and it’s unfathomable to me that she would have told this to the guy she is supposedly planning to set up as the ‘fall guy’. It defies logic to me and I can’t buy into the predominate theory on social media that it is was a planned and strategic use of reverse psychology – are you in the reverse psychology camp, or do you have another theory?

Her ‘manipulated friend’ is the one that suggested Jeff – not Wendi. I am aware that many believe Wendi manipulated her into offering up Jeff... another concept I have a hard time believing. You are correct that Wendi mentioned Amy Adler's ex-husband, but isn't that a logical suspect? Did you see the interview that Dan’s close and dear friends, the Greenbergs, had with Isom? They brought a list of at least 4 or 5 women that Dan had ‘relations’ with for potential love triangle / jealous ex motives. I don’t find it odd at all the Wendi mentioned Amy’s ex nor do I find it odd that Jeff was mentioned… Wendi’s friend Jane also told Wendi that Wendi was a logical choice. It’s normal to look at / investigate anyone that was tied to Dan romantically as well as any potential jealous ex’s or those he was involved with.
 
  • #2,253
There are some avid followers of the case are not aligned with the theory Wendi is intelligent enough to have been the master manipulator… so I’m genuinely curious what you believe to be the reason that Wendi confided in Jeff about Charlie’s past plans to hire a hitman days before the murder? It would be good to get a fresh perspective. – I haven’t seen a lot of your post in the past so I’m asking with genuine interest.

Personally, I believe that if Wendi was an active participant in the plot to murder Dan, it’s so incredibly risky, counterintuitive and it’s unfathomable to me that she would have told this to the guy she is supposedly planning to set up as the ‘fall guy’. It defies logic to me and I can’t buy into the predominate theory on social media that it is was a planned and strategic use of reverse psychology – are you in the reverse psychology camp, or do you have another theory?

Her ‘manipulated friend’ is the one that suggested Jeff – not Wendi. I am aware that many believe Wendi manipulated her into offering up Jeff... another concept I have a hard time believing. You are correct that Wendi mentioned Amy Adler's ex-husband, but isn't that a logical suspect? Did you see the interview that Dan’s close and dear friends, the Greenbergs, had with Isom? They brought a list of at least 4 or 5 women that Dan had ‘relations’ with for potential love triangle / jealous ex motives. I don’t find it odd at all the Wendi mentioned Amy’s ex nor do I find it odd that Jeff was mentioned… Wendi’s friend Jane also told Wendi that Wendi was a logical choice. It’s normal to look at / investigate anyone that was tied to Dan romantically as well as any potential jealous ex’s or those he was involved with.
I think she told Jeff because she couldn't help herself, much like she couldn't help herself from attempting to drive by Dan's house. While I do believe that Wendi is manipulative, I also believe she's a complete emotional mess. I don't believe Charlie and Donald realized what a liability she was.


I suspect Jeff's testimony was very eye opening and if they had access to the full interviews they would be floored. Neither Dona or Charlie had any qualms about murdering Dan. I believe Wendi did. I won't get into all of those reasons but I believe she had some. I also don't think this was fully communicated or understood. Wendi doesn't have a fixed self in my opinion so it's difficult to discuss her behavior and motivations.

I think setting Jeff up was a halfhearted effort. Again, she couldn't help herself, and she desperately wanted to create distance between herself and what was coming so she sent the totally out of character messages to Rob. That was one of her ploys and spreading rumors about his out of control jealousy was another. Consider what she told Tamara about Jeff a few weeks before the murder and how it contrasts with what she was telling the friend. There are many examples of this duplicitous behavior. Wendi has a different face for everybody she meets. It's a convoluted maze of personality disorders that are hard to understand to rational people.

I think Wendi is highly skilled in manipulation. Remember the courtroom laughter (I think it was Katie's first trial) when Jeff was asked a question about Wendi confessing to him about lying during a deposition? His answer was something like, "that is tricky because it's my understanding that she lied about lying." A classic moment from the trials. She was always hedging her bets. With Jeff she couldn't help herself but with Isom I suspect it's a little of both. Put on the spot, she felt the pressure.

To me it's unfathomable that Wendi wasn't in on it and Harvey too. This family was far too enmeshed for her not to have been. Ruth Markel writes in book that when she went to Wendy's house on the Saturday following Dan's murder, it was already packed up and ready to move. Then there's the code, the early morning Charlie call and the erratic behavior. All of this points toward Wendi being in on the crime. If Charlie and Dona hadn't kept Wendi out of the loop when they tickled the wire, she would likely be in prison. Likewise, the logistics of where she lived created enough distance to work in her favor.

I am now rambling and I haven't thought Adelson in awhile, but I have many opinions and think Wendi is incredibly lucky, but I also believe that Georgia is doing everything she can to end her lucky streak.
 
  • #2,254
I think setting Jeff up was a halfhearted effort.
I agree. Probably just to try and create confusion with LE, adding another potential suspect into the mix.
 
  • #2,255
Or she was hoping that Jeff would take the hint and volunteer to kill Dan himself. That's the simplest explanation.
 
  • #2,256
At some point, Charlie might want to testify just for revenge, with no other inducement. He seems like that kind of person.
Agree. He has likely grown up in the shadows of both RA and WA. Really what has he got to lose.
 
  • #2,257
I think she told Jeff because she couldn't help herself, much like she couldn't help herself from attempting to drive by Dan's house. While I do believe that Wendi is manipulative, I also believe she's a complete emotional mess. I don't believe Charlie and Donald realized what a liability she was.


I suspect Jeff's testimony was very eye opening and if they had access to the full interviews they would be floored. Neither Dona or Charlie had any qualms about murdering Dan. I believe Wendi did. I won't get into all of those reasons but I believe she had some. I also don't think this was fully communicated or understood. Wendi doesn't have a fixed self in my opinion so it's difficult to discuss her behavior and motivations.

I think setting Jeff up was a halfhearted effort. Again, she couldn't help herself, and she desperately wanted to create distance between herself and what was coming so she sent the totally out of character messages to Rob. That was one of her ploys and spreading rumors about his out of control jealousy was another. Consider what she told Tamara about Jeff a few weeks before the murder and how it contrasts with what she was telling the friend. There are many examples of this duplicitous behavior. Wendi has a different face for everybody she meets. It's a convoluted maze of personality disorders that are hard to understand to rational people.

I think Wendi is highly skilled in manipulation. Remember the courtroom laughter (I think it was Katie's first trial) when Jeff was asked a question about Wendi confessing to him about lying during a deposition? His answer was something like, "that is tricky because it's my understanding that she lied about lying." A classic moment from the trials. She was always hedging her bets. With Jeff she couldn't help herself but with Isom I suspect it's a little of both. Put on the spot, she felt the pressure.

To me it's unfathomable that Wendi wasn't in on it and Harvey too. This family was far too enmeshed for her not to have been. Ruth Markel writes in book that when she went to Wendy's house on the Saturday following Dan's murder, it was already packed up and ready to move. Then there's the code, the early morning Charlie call and the erratic behavior. All of this points toward Wendi being in on the crime. If Charlie and Dona hadn't kept Wendi out of the loop when they tickled the wire, she would likely be in prison. Likewise, the logistics of where she lived created enough distance to work in her favor.

I am now rambling and I haven't thought Adelson in awhile, but I have many opinions and think Wendi is incredibly lucky, but I also believe that Georgia is doing everything she can to end her lucky streak.

Thanks for the detailed response and I hope you continue to participate here! I agree that Wendi showed manipulative characteristics, but I’m not sold on the idea that she was this calculating master manipulator pulling all the strings. In your original message, you seemed to support that widely held belief, but in your last response you didn’t seem fully committed to it. Wendi is a complex person that everyone tries to label and analyze, and it seems that most of what we know about her personality comes through the lens of Jeff Lacasse.

Jeff is placed on a pedestal by most people who follow the case because he rightly identified Charlie within the first ten minutes of his interview as someone investigators should focus on. I’ve never understood why that’s treated as some brilliant insight based on two main points:
  1. Wendi literally told Jeff that Charlie had looked into hiring a hitman to kill Dan days before Dan was murdered.​
  2. Jeff went into detail in his police interview about his one and only interaction with Charlie, and there were plenty of red flags.​
Someone in Jeff’s field, with his education and experience as a social worker, would have had to be grossly incompetent not to point investigators toward Charlie based on point #1 alone – point #2 is just icing on the cake.

In Jeff's first police interview, he also said he could see Charlie doing this without Wendi’s knowledge. I’m fully aware his opinion changed over time, and as I’ve said before, I have major issues with several things Jeff later claimed – too much detail to explain concisely here.

I also strongly believe there was no coordinated effort – or even a half‑hearted attempt to frame Jeff. I’ve given many specific examples in the past about why that theory makes no sense to me, so I won’t rehash all of them here. Instead, I want to focus on the point you raised about Rob’s testimony regarding the “secret boyfriend,” since that only came out at Donna’s trial.

I can’t buy the theory that Wendi messaged Rob weeks before the murder to plant a seed so he’d eventually mention Jeff to investigators as part of the coordinate set up effort. Rob lived in upstate New York. The idea that she was seeding a future misdirection through him stretches logic way too far.

A far more straightforward explanation is that Wendi didn’t want her parents to know the true nature of her relationship with Jeff – which also fits perfectly with the timeline. It was the weeks leading up to Harvey’s big birthday celebration where they would all meet, and wouldn't you know it - Jeff wasn’t there?.... and Wendi knew exactly what Rob had gone through with his engagement to a non-Jewish woman his parents forced him to break off by literally threatening to disown him. Rob had already lived through a major falling‑out with them over his engagement to a non-Jewish woman that he eventually married after breaking off that engagement to please his controlling parents and marrying someone else (a Jewish woman) who he eventually divorced to marry the non-Jewish woman he loved. Based on the history and tragedy of what Rob and his current wife had been through, it makes complete sense that she’d tell him, “Don’t tell Mom and Dad about my (non‑Jewish) boyfriend Jeff.”

Now add Jeff’s own statements - he testified that there was “no way” Wendi’s parents didn’t know who he was. I fully believe they knew of him – but did they know he and Wendi were a couple? Jeff initially testified that he never had a real conversation with Donna or Harvey beyond maybe a quick hello or goodbye. So is it really hard to believe Wendi hid the seriousness of her relationship with Jeff to her mother and father?

More supporting info – Jeff told Isom (I believe in the third interview) that toward the end of the relationship, as Jeff describes, Wendi desperately threw herself at him, and Wendi told him she was going to tell her parents about 'them' because he wasn’t Jewish and that was a big deal. I find that interesting and its another Jeff contradiction (and I have many).

When you put all of this together, the simpler explanation fits better than the elaborate manipulation theories people keep trying to force onto her behavior. The inconsistencies around Jeff, Rob, and her parents don’t point to a coordinated setup – they point to someone managing family expectations, avoiding conflict, and navigating the same cultural pressures that had already blown up Rob’s relationship with their parents. None of that requires a conspiracy or a long‑term strategy. It just requires a person who was overwhelmed, conflicted, and trying to keep different parts of her life from colliding.
 
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  • #2,258
She didn't buy a house, she gave away the kids' clothes, canceled the cable, took down the kids' drawings on the walls, wrote a letter to Robert saying Jeff was a secret boyfriend her parents didn't know about. And letters about TV repairs, which provided her with an alibi. And of course, she came to the scene. To me, she's the worst of the whole family for what she did to her kids. I don't believe she'll be prosecuted.
Why give their clothes away? They were going to need clothes in S. Fla-unless it's because they were clothes that Dan bought for them?? So she'd spring for all new clothes?
 
  • #2,259
A far more straightforward explanation is that Wendi didn’t want her parents to know the true nature of her relationship with Jeff – which also fits perfectly with the timeline. .

HA and DA knew Jeff wasn't WA's secret boyfriend. They had met Jeff 6-7 times. If she wanted to keep him secret she would not have introduced them.
 
  • #2,260
Why give their clothes away? They were going to need clothes in S. Fla-unless it's because they were clothes that Dan bought for them?? So she'd spring for all new clothes?
Re kids clothes - I thought WA sorted the kids clothes and got rid of things that were too small/worn out. The type of activity you do when moving, so you don’t spend time packing clothing you won’t use in the near future. MOO
I would be more inclined to find WA not directly involved if she hadn’t been so cruel to the Markels. Had she adhered to her commitment to have the boys visit with them day after the funeral (or at least communicate to them that she had changed her mind), it would have shown her to be empathetic to Markels and demonstrated that she understood the value of their connection with Dan’s children.
Instead, WA blew them off! I can imagine DA commandeering the funeral, move etc. and WA being so shocked, hungover etc that she went along with whatever DA said.
I can see WA talking to Isom in the car on the way to Miami (another commitment blown off) and DA telling her to hang up (oops, dropped call). Hell, she probably hung up for her.
 

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