FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #15

[Missyrocks5]

I’m really trying to be unbiased, but even if I didn’t know most the evidence - there is no way I can make the defense theory seem logical in my mind. Two thugs and a bottle girl from Miami, one of the thugs can’t even read or write, hear about the million dollar bribe to Dan to allow Wendi to move back to Miami, and they decide to kill Dan first then ask for $100,000 split three ways?

Well said I also believe SG had not killed before, nor had LR either. Let’s add that they knew where Charlie‘s former brother-in-law worked and lived, knew how to locate his home, knew his schedule to follow him, (profsblog of course lol), and also brilliantly came up with a way to frame Wendi’s boyfriend, and do it on the exact day and timing that JL went out of town while also renting a car to look like his at a distance. Lol

 

[cottonweaver]

I’m really trying to be unbiased, but even if I didn’t know most the evidence - there is no way I can make the defense theory seem logical in my mind. Two thugs and a bottle girl from Miami, one of the thugs can’t even read or write, hear about the million dollar bribe to Dan to allow Wendi to move back to Miami, and they decide to kill Dan first then ask for $100,000 split three ways?

especially over a $1million offer for Wendi to ' get her kids back ' and Dan to have a second home in Miami & commute.
( That's the way Wendi tried to characterise it - just an offer to cover Dan's expenses so he could be a Dad half-time but in a different location)

It's a bizarre scenario:
Katie: I have something to confess. You know your family was considering offering $1M to ( keep Dan alive) and just move him for half the week?
Charlie: Huh? yeah...
Wendi: Well, Tuto and Tato have killed him instead.
Charlie: WTF?! We never wanted the kids' father dead, we wanted him here in Miami Thurs - Monday.

 

[MTW2011]

I hope this is ok to share. I was looking thru filings in Sigfredo’s case this morning, specifically about his attempt at appeal and letters he had with his anppellate attorney. The one section I highlighted about Attorney Harrison telling him: “I will agree with you that I have been wasting my time offering you what I believe to be some possible relief from your life sentence but you would have to tell the whole truth about what you obviously know especially as it relates to those people down south who initiated this horrible crime. But you have been had by these people and there is little else to say.”…..

was very interesting, IMO.

 

[amicuscurie]

I hope this is ok to share. I was looking thru filings in Sigfredo’s case this morning, specifically about his attempt at appeal and letters he had with his anppellate attorney. The one section I highlighted about Attorney Harrison telling him: “I will agree with you that I have been wasting my time offering you what I believe to be some possible relief from your life sentence but you would have to tell the whole truth about what you obviously know especially as it relates to those people down south who initiated this horrible crime. But you have been had by these people and there is little else to say.”…..

was very interesting, IMO.

Wow! Wish he would flip. What’s stopping him now that his beloved Katie is in jail? He hasn’t perjured himself, he’d be a good witness. Why don’t these people want the people who hired them to pay?

 

[Weki]

If Katie flips Sigfredo has no reason to stay silent. Sigfredo would provide great corroboration for Katie. But if Charlie testifies and the state brings both Katie and Sigfredo as rebuttal witnesses it would be quite something!! JMO

 

[misantha]

I don't post that often, but I thought I would share some of my observations of the trial so far. Like a lot of you, I watched the previous trials so I really was trying to watch and listen as if I only heard the evidence prsented so far.

I know I'm a little behind but here are my thoughts so far.
From Agent Sanford's testimony...
I thought GC and the agent did a good job establishing the murder, and the two prong investigation that law enforcement took to lead to the Adelsons. Obviously, they need to establish the elements of the crime, but don't need to go through all the same details since CA is the one on trial not LR or SG. It obviously doesn't make sense that two strangers from another city would travel to kill DM for no reason. CA having a strong connection to the killers through KM is very damning circumstantially in my opinion. I thought DR made a good point in cross that the checks to KM are more typical of a blackmail scheme than murder for hire (although this contradicts his opening statement that KM didn't blackmail CA and that CA came to believe KM was innocent). In addition, I thought DR made a good point that the relocation filing was denied a year before the murder so why did this seem to be the main motivation for the murder.
From WA's testimony...
Initially, I thought WA was doing a great job, and her testimony was going nowhere for the state. It seemed like DA was just ranting in the emails, but there didn't seem to be any evidence that WA or CA also agreed strongly or took action on her over the top statements. When GC confronted WA about forwarding the alienation motion to DA and 12 people that hit home to me (although the email was not admitted into evidence). I thought GC brought it back around on Day 1 when she repeatedly had the documents and WA's prior interviews contradict WA's current testimony. I also thought GC hit home with the timeline that DM left a voicemail for WA with his schedule, then WA called CA for 18 min to talk about the cost of a TV. I didn't mind the snark at the end since I think GC was expressing that it is implausible that an adult doesn't know the cost of a TV is cheaper than a repair to replace the screen and that as close as WA indicated she was with DA and CA she never talked to either of them about the murder, especially after the killers were linked to brother's girlfriend. On cross from DR, I actually thought he hurt CA's case. He reinforced two ideas in my head. 1. DA wasn't just ranting. The family was actually trying to find ways to make something happen as evidenced by going to a lawyer to see what was legal (and by inference illegal). 2. WA was stuck in Tallahassee. He pointed out she was smart and had great career potential (valedictorian in HS, full scholarship to college and law school), but followed Dan to FSU. Then, she lost her job with human trafficking only to not be able to move for the lucrative job in Miami (with more opportunity for immigration work). Instead, she was stuck working as a part time professor in the law school where her ex was highly regarded (and who was disparaging her to colleagues). I could see how all of this would make the family more angry and have a greater desire for WA to relocate.
From JL's testimony...I pretty much discounted his testimony. As someone else mentioned he seemed overeager. Also, I didn't believe him when he said WA told him CA hired a hitman after WA and JL broke up. I also didn't find it plausible that WA told JL to have the kids call him Dad.
JU and Ryan's(?) testimony only established to me that he stapled money.
From LR's testimony...The main point made for me is that if he knew the dentist had a million dollars why not just go rob him instead of killing some random person for money (especially if you weren't sure you were going to get the money after the murder).

Thanks for indulging me with the long post.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Tara Kawass speculated in the video I posted last thread that SG won’t flip because he will have it very rough in prison if he turns state witness. Prisoners do not like informants and make their lives more difficult. But who knows why he won’t!? It could be a factor, but who knows. Jeez…now the lyrics of that song “Free your mind the rest will follow!” Just popped into my head. They all need to just stand up and tell the truth once and for all and give the Markels some Justice and send all involved Adelsons to the slammer!

 

[Missyrocks5]

I hope this is ok to share. I was looking thru filings in Sigfredo’s case this morning, specifically about his attempt at appeal and letters he had with his anppellate attorney. The one section I highlighted about Attorney Harrison telling him: “I will agree with you that I have been wasting my time offering you what I believe to be some possible relief from your life sentence but you would have to tell the whole truth about what you obviously know especially as it relates to those people down south who initiated this horrible crime. But you have been had by these people and there is little else to say.”…..

was very interesting, IMO.

Wow! Wish he would flip. What’s stopping him now that his beloved Katie is in jail? He hasn’t perjured himself, he’d be a good witness. Why don’t these people want the people who hired them to pay?

Thank you for posting that. SG is the wild card here because he never talked. He makes a good witness for that reason. I guess the question is, would he be in danger from gangs etc. in prison for opening his mouth. He’s not going to walk for talking. Maybe give him 25-30. But I wonder if the state will work with both he and katie to lessen their time, and if they would both finally come clean.

KM lied so much that it certainly looks as though the defense is trying to bait the state into calling her. She can also say how her defense was really paid (the story of her nurse mom having a mil for attorneys was ridiculous). But I keep saying that if she can somehow log into her WhatsApp, and show them, which I don’t know if they were ever able to access, the WhatsApp messages were they were all clearly communicating on, that is independent corroboration. Even if they say she’s lying, those are real time posts. I guess the problem is though that they have this ridiculous first extortion defense to try to explain everything away. But if the state can make it clear to the jury, there is no way that that defense is plausible, it may work.

I always say that SG loves KM, and LR said S did the hit for KM. He is never going to say anything to hurt her chances of her appeal or anything so it has to be a package deal as far as I can see. If the state can somehow make a package deal for the two of them to get less time, it could work. Of course, the defense will paint it that they’ll say anything to get a lesser sentence, and that they are lying, etc, but again, if you have independent corroboration of WhatsApp messages, that should take away any talk of them lying. But then you’ll have the defense giving a different interpretation of whatever is written. Katie and Sigfredo lived together so they discussed it in person and probably put very little in writing.

 

[MTW2011]

Wow! Wish he would flip. What’s stopping him now that his beloved Katie is in jail? He hasn’t perjured himself, he’d be a good witness. Why don’t these people want the people who hired them to pay?

I’m not sure it answers your question but I’ll just share the whole document, the letter was part of his “Motion” Sigfredo wrote “pro Se” to the Court. He seems very unhappy with his appellate attorney and also that his appeal was rejected / his sentence affirmed. As far as “why don’t they want the people who hired them to pay”, it’s a question I am still trying to figure out too. I don’t get it.

I mean, maybe since SG seems to want to do anything for Katie, if he flips it would be hard to not implicate Katie….but at the same time, if Katie now flips, is it going to implicate the hitmen or will the state try to focus on just CA’s involvement, that’s if she is even called still…..lots of questions….we shall see with time I think

 

[cottonweaver]

Tara Kawass speculated in the video I posted last thread that SG won’t flip because he will have it very rough in prison if he turns state witness. Prisoners do not like informants and make their lives more difficult. But who knows why he won’t!? It could be a factor, but who knows. Jeez…now the lyrics of that song “Free your mind the rest will follow!” Just popped into my head. They all need to just stand up and tell the truth once and for all and give the Markels some Justice and send all involved Adelsons to the slammer!

I wonder whether Katie is still the love of his life for whom he'd do anything? Maybe he'd do it if Katie encouraged him to?

ETA Although we've been told that she's had relationships inside, I wonder if they still write each other?

 

[Mariposa]

KM is the one who should have flipped. They had SG cold for murder with good evidence (LR testimony but other evidence too) and he is the one that shot a stranger in the face twice. SG couldn’t offer much on the Adelsons, that was KM. I think she was just dumb not to flip. It’s been reported that her first trial hung jury was just based on a pity vote by one juror who thought it was unfair to their kids if both KM and SG were convicted. I don’t know if KMs attorneys knew that or when, but she should not have felt too confident going into her retrial to cooperate.

CA’s defense is dumb and a long shot. But it’s kind of the only defense he can try. Someone said above David Lat had said years ago (he also said it on the Over My Dead Body podcast) this was the only defense he personally could even think of. I don’t think CA flipping on his other family members will happen or is even the goal. Sure him setting up the murder was likely mostly done to placate DA but I bet CA also relished the chance to do so, he was a big talker who loved to seem menacing, a wannabe Scarface with dental tools (remember on the Dolce Vita tape: “When the f…..g police show up, and there’s a doctor… there’s an oral surgeon standing there with a dead gang member in his f….g driveway, they’re not gonna come down too hard on me.”)I think he is more dangerous to society and more likely to offend again than his family members too.

 

[dotr]

 

[Mrspratcher]

Here is the Dolce Vita video/audio with transcription, with CA going on and on and on.

Thanks for posting this!

 

[Seattle1]

@amicuscurie -- Officer Bannon's testimony on Friday was relatively short. He states he was wrote the primary report (securing the crime scene) and while he did testify that he knew the make/model of WA's vehicle, I interpreted this to mean he had this knowledge at the time he wrote his report.

I think he said he saw the vehicle turn around at about noon, and at cross, the defense tried to poke holes with this because WA's cell phone records did not place her near the residence until around 1 PM. However, and probably more important, the defense also didn't touch Officer Bannon's statement that he was aware [in advance] of the make/model of vehicle WA drove.

I suppose it could be police protocol to apprise Officers such as Bannon guarding the crime scene perimeter of the make/model of any known, immediate family vehicles, in the event they came upon the crime scene where IMO, the normal reaction by most individuals would be to attempt to cross the police boundary i.e., 'Let me in -- that's the home of my children, are they OK... is my ex-husband OK?'

And this brings up yet another question about WA: after seeing the crime tape, did she ever call the daycare to check on her children and confirm they were indeed at at school? We know she missed or did not pick up an incoming call from Dan the morning he was murdered so I'm not sure WA knew for certain her kids were safe at school and not at home!

FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #14

There was a podcast series about this case some years ago called Over My Dead Body: Tally. Looking back at that podcast, one very interesting thing was that the oldest Adelson sibling, Rob, who is a doctor in New York State, was interviewed. In episode 5, there’s a story about his family...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Marysmith]

I hope this is ok to share. I was looking thru filings in Sigfredo’s case this morning, specifically about his attempt at appeal and letters he had with his anppellate attorney. The one section I highlighted about Attorney Harrison telling him: “I will agree with you that I have been wasting my time offering you what I believe to be some possible relief from your life sentence but you would have to tell the whole truth about what you obviously know especially as it relates to those people down south who initiated this horrible crime. But you have been had by these people and there is little else to say.”…..

was very interesting, IMO.

Oh wow!

 

[vislaw]

This thread is moving quickly! ... I also enjoy seeing the different opinions and ideas people have. I posted earlier today my opinion that if Charlie testifies it will result in an indictment of DA no matter what the verdict. I noticed that there were those who disagreed and apparently Mentour Lawyer expressed his opinion that if CA walks it will be the end of any further prosecution. I respectfully disagree:

I believe it is unlikely CA is acquitted because the weight of the evidence is so strong against him. Nevertheless, even if a wildcard jury should walk him, I believe his testimony will be extremely useful to the prosecution. First of all, CA would have no 5th amendment right to refuse to testify if he is acquitted. His prior testimony under oath would also be admissible as prior consistent trial testimony and he would certainly be an eligible witness in the state's case against DA. If he testifies that DA knew of the extortion and, thus, the murder, that testimony is relevant in the "brand new" case against DA. If I was the prosecutor, I would want a shot at DA to see if a second jury would buy the "second extortion" defense (I truly think most rational juries would not).

Donna could certainly claim that she didn't know anything until CA enlisted her in the pay-off scheme, but that would pressure her to take the stand and undergo cross examination. Otherwise, she would have to hope that CA's testimony would be sufficient to get her off and it would allow the prosecution to take on CA in Donna's trial. The fact that he testifies now is huge -- similar to how KM's first trial testimony was crucial to convicting her. She dodged a bullet the first trial by hanging a couple jurors, but when she tried to do it again the prosecution was ready for her. If CA somehow gets acquitted, his testimony will be key to leverage Donna in a case against her. The notion that she KNEW who the murderers were and told nobody is both outrageous and not believable. The whole crazy theory stinks and I cannot believe the DA would not want to take another shot at the Adelsons and this stupid theory if CA walks.

 

[Hiller]

The payments from the HA dental practice to KM are likely to be more significant this time around given the CA defense theory. As noted by a previous poster,these periodic payments may be characterized by the defense as consistent with extortion. I recall that the reason KM wanted on-the-books payments had to do with health insurance for her children. Depending on KM's other income this makes sense. If KM's income was too low, she would not have qualified for an Obamacare policy with a subsidy. Rather she would have been forced to apply for Medicaid, which likely would have been much inferior to an Obamacare policy in terms of quality of care,choice of doctors, hospitals, specialists, etc.). (It is not well-known that if your income is below a certain level related to the current federal poverty level, you cannot qualify for an Obamacare subsidy and must either apply for Medicaid or pay the full cost of the policy which presumably you can't afford.) I wonder if the prosecutors will address this.

 

[Marysmith]

I wonder whether Katie is still the love of his life for whom he'd do anything? Maybe he'd do it if Katie encouraged him to?

ETA Although we've been told that she's had relationships inside, I wonder if they still write each other?

Relationships with other prisoners?
Even though SG is the triggerman I feel for him… IMO.
This wasn’t worth it for anyone involved. No one got what they wanted and all their lives have been adversely affected for sure.
RIP Dan. Like others, me included, you picked the wrong spouse.

 

[Seattle1]

Their theory is that they believed the bump was a SECOND extortion, not the one with Katie. Katie was helping them solve it.

it’s still unclear to me whether they are arguing Katie was extorting them, or just the other two and Katie told them about it. If it’s the second thing, then their being friend,y to Katie makes sense. She does say “Im trying to help you out and figure out who it is“ on one of the calls. They are obviously tailoring their argument to the calls that exist. That’s the “ puzzle pieces” that he’s referring to. He has all these pieces of evidence and he has to make them all fit into his cockamamie story.

Yes, from the defense's opening, I also understood that once CA confirmed to his satisfaction that KM had no knowledge of the bump, and she wasn't part of this second extortion, CA took her in and continued confiding in her (i.e., KM was helping solve this).

 

[clearskies1]

The payments from the HA dental practice to KM are likely to be more significant this time around given the CA defense theory. As noted by a previous poster,these periodic payments may be characterized by the defense as consistent with extortion. I recall that the reason KM wanted on-the-books payments had to do with health insurance for her children. Depending on KM's other income this makes sense. If KM's income was too low, she would not have qualified for an Obamacare policy with a subsidy. Rather she would have been forced to apply for Medicaid, which likely would have been much inferior to an Obamacare policy in terms of quality of care,choice of doctors, hospitals, specialists, etc.). (It is not well-known that if your income is below a certain level related to the current federal poverty level, you cannot qualify for an Obamacare subsidy and must either apply for Medicaid or pay the full cost of the policy which presumably you can't afford.) I wonder if the prosecutors will address this.

Yes, I was wondering how the state is going to address the dental institute’s payments to Katie as well, because the only reason we know about the health insurance issue is because Katie testified about it. If she doesn’t testify in this trial there will be no explanation for it because I don’t think her prior testimony is admissible against Charlie.