FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #15

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  • #1,061
Deep Dive True Crime just posted Katie's 1st proffer on his YouTube for members only - fastest $4.99 I've ever spent!!!!!
I’m only a few minutes in but this IMO totally backs up KM saying the other day how nervous and scared she was at first, they just show up, a camera is in her face, her attorneys aren’t there, law enforcement is asking for her to “just talk” and she’s said she’s “never” talked to anyone about this until now (assuming she means talked about the truth of what happened to law enforcement). She seems visibly nervous, and asked if the video would be made public.

I can totally see how and why she said it took her time to start saying these things and her “truth”, especially after years of saying all these other stuff that wasn’t entirely that same truth. But JMOO.
 
  • #1,062
We’ve heard a lot of new evidence and wire taps during this trial that have never been heard before. It makes me wonder if they have any taps with Donna and Wendi talking, or Wendi and Charlie and aren’t disclosing them because Wendi isn’t on trial (yet- if she ever will be). Is that even possible?
We can certainly hope!!
There must be some conversations between Donna and Wendi (and Charlie and Wendi) that we haven't heard yet. Hopefully we will hear them at their trials!
 
  • #1,063
How do you think HA fits into this? Did he know what was going on? It seems like the family kept him out of most of the conversations, yet he and DA met with CA by the pool, where LE couldn't hear them.
 
  • #1,064
I’m only a few minutes in but this IMO totally backs up KM saying the other day how nervous and scared she was at first, they just show up, a camera is in her face, her attorneys aren’t there, law enforcement is asking for her to “just talk” and she’s said she’s “never” talked to anyone about this until now (assuming she means talked about the truth of what happened to law enforcement). She seems visibly nervous, and asked if the video would be made public.

I can totally see how and why she said it took her time to start saying these things and her “truth”, especially after years of saying all these other stuff that wasn’t entirely that same truth. But JMOO.
Interesting. Thanks for that perspective. I think LE and prosecutors were so done with Katie for not taking the immunity. Their frustration with her is at a 1000 by this point I bet. She had no leverage at that point. She should’ve had her lawyers there!
 
  • #1,065
Interesting. Thanks for that perspective. I think LE and prosecutors were so done with Katie for not taking the immunity. Their frustration with her is at a 1000 by this point I bet. She had no leverage at that point. She should’ve had her lawyers there!
Yes in the beginning of this (I’m still listening to it) she is very much minimizing her role, she’s talking about Charlie “planting seeds” in her head and she thought it was “beat up” not “murder” and 20 minutes in they’re pushing back on her for that. It’s fascinating to hear. Sorry I can’t link, it was shared on his Patreon page.

This also continues to align with what she told Charlie’s jury, that it took her time to get to saying the real details, to talk in specifics.
 
  • #1,066
I did not see the previous trials and only very, very casually followed this case over the years. Coming into this trial I only knew about the following people: Dan Markel; H, D, W, and C Adelson; and the three people already convicted.

So I comment as a newbie to the case and the facts surrounding it.

I think the prosecution has provided a strong case. I would vote “guilty” as a juror. But I also think the prosecution case has been a little bit confusing. Reading the comments here (I’ve read everything only in threads 14 and this current one) I think that many things mentioned in these pages would have made things much clearer and, more importantly, stronger. But as things stand now, the prosecution has not much to be worried about, I think. Also, based on comments here, it seems the prosecution can offer powerful rebuttal evidence.

A few of my observations:

—Charlie’s attitude toward women (except perhaps his mother!) would make a caveman proud. He even evinces no respect for his own sister. His comments about younger women for dating and the baggage children represent will surely create strong feelings among the women of the jury as well as those men who don’t see women as mere objects for their personal delight. This attitude will bolster the idea that he considers himself clearly superior to others, like when he suggests that if an oral surgeon kills a gang-banger, the doc will be believed with any old story. It’s only a small, incremental step to his assuming “no one would believe I would kill my brother-in-law”, even when he did. I think the jury will see this.

—Ex-girlfriend June seemed to treat her time on the stand as a modeling interview for hair care products. Again, it does not reflect well on CA that he seeks out beautiful but vapid and shallow women who coo and bubble over him out of love for his wallet. It was crystal clear to me that she did make numerous observations about CA at the time of her LE interview that support the prosecution’s case, even if she now wishes to minimize them.

—Lacasse was a good choice by Wendi, if she was indeed looking to litter the landscape with potential suspects not named Adelson. Even all these years later, he seemed remarkably emotional and at times bitter, especially for someone versed in social work and interpersonal relations. Nonetheless, I found his testimony believable, if slightly neurotic.

—Magbanua is a liar, there is no getting around that. However, the problem for the defense is that much of what she admits to now is supported by other evidence before the jury. The defense will, inevitably, argue that the jury should consider every single thing she says as rubbish. I don’t think they will. And the wiretaps make clear who was the conductor and who was the second trombone in this orchestrated murder.

—I think it was smart of the prosecution to place Wendi and Lacasse as witnesses close in time. Lacasse had moments of stumbling and stuttering testimony that were congruent with the emotional impact of the specific events recounted. Wendi, on the other hand, was almost unbelievably calm, even when caught in lies (claiming Mama didn’t know about DM’s motion for only supervised visits between DA and the kiddoes, claiming she didn’t know the significance of being found in contempt). I’m sure the jury thought back to how easily Wendy lied when she said Dan’s family had “unfettered access” to the boys after they heard FBI agent Sanford testify that this was patently untrue.

—I wondered how obvious the code stuff would be, and I think now that all the calls and texts and the like have come into evidence, I believe the jury will believe what the prosecution believes: that codes were indeed used by this ruthless family.

—Some of the wiretap recordings are so hard to hear that it hurts. I confess that I have read here in this thread to get the gist of some of them, because I am too lazy to strain and stretch my brain and ears to make them coherent. I trust that the jury, with the headphones, are having a better time of it. I do wonder how they will deliberate over them. I hate to think they might have to listen to them again! If there’s anything which could trip up a conviction, I fear it will be a single juror saying, “I couldn’t make any sense of the wiretaps and there is not enough evidence to convict without them.” (If I understand correctly, this was also the prosecution position: They only proceeded with charging CA after they cleaned up the audio on the most important wiretaps, right?) What I heard was not cleaned up enough for easy listening.

—These comments may be pointless by tomorrow if CA hangs himself, as he is wont to do, with his own words. His arrogance will seal his fate.
 
  • #1,067
How do you think HA fits into this? Did he know what was going on? It seems like the family kept him out of most of the conversations, yet he and DA met with CA by the pool, where LE couldn't hear them.
At first I didn’t think Harvey was in on it, but over time I have changed my opinion and I think he knew.
 
  • #1,068
We’ve heard a lot of new evidence and wire taps during this trial that have never been heard before. It makes me wonder if they have any taps with Donna and Wendi talking, or Wendi and Charlie and aren’t disclosing them because Wendi isn’t on trial (yet- if she ever will be). Is that even possible?
LE only had a warrant to wiretap Charlie's phone and Katie's phone. So the only phone recordings of Donna and Wendi would be via the wiretap of Charlie's phone. My understanding is that LE did not think they had enough evidence to get a warrant to wiretap Donna and Wendi, and so didn't seek one. This was explained by LE at one of the earlier trials.
 
  • #1,069
Maybe it’s just some empathy in me but in this first proffer, Katie on the verge of tears, claiming she didn’t even know how much this all “just snowballed” from someone getting beat up to someone getting killed, and she was attracted to Charlie because Charlie was different than Sigfredo, Charlie was working, Charlie wasn’t fighting with her nonstop, Sigfredo and her were “going through so much” and Charlie was some “happy” and “stability” for her while she’s struggling and “just trying to raise her kids”.
ETA - it’s just not believable to me that SG knew it was for a murder, not some “beat this person up”, and that this whole things end in murder without KM passing on SOME sort of details to him, from Charlie….even with that “paper” she delivered

I feel bad for her, and her kids, but how much she’s claiming she “didn’t know” in this first proffer, and that she thought someone was just gonna get beat up……wow I can’t wait til he gets to post the other proffers.

(This also IMOO just bolsters what Katie said on the stand most recently, & undermines the defense even more - Katie even blurted out that she knew Charlie “trusted her”, that she “wouldn’t blackmail him” )
 
  • #1,070
LE only had a warrant to wiretap Charlie's phone and Katie's phone. So the only phone recordings of Donna and Wendi would be via the wiretap of Charlie's phone. My understanding is that LE did not think they had enough evidence to get a warrant to wiretap Donna and Wendi, and so didn't seek one. This was explained by LE at one of the earlier trials.
Thank you for clearing that up!
 
  • #1,071
I think the evidence does suggest Harvey knew what was going on. I’m a bit sad about it, another dentist
 
  • #1,072
How do you think HA fits into this? Did he know what was going on? It seems like the family kept him out of most of the conversations, yet he and DA met with CA by the pool, where LE couldn't hear them.
They are all guilty...Father Mother son and daughter....the father was not always in the details because it would have stressed him too much but do not worry...he knew what was going on.
 
  • #1,073
Again, not a detail that matters now, but I’m curious how much KM’s attorneys knew of all of these calls during her second trial? As we’ve seen today a great portion of them seem newly heard, for any defendant, in this case. But we also know they aren’t something they just received or recorded months ago.
It's my understanding the only audio that was not in discovery since 2019 when co-defendants KM/SG initially went to trial was the enhanced audio of the police covert recording at at Dolce Vita.

I viewed the 2019 trial from UK so I don't recall the specific audio/video exhibits and only recall that the enhanced video from Dolce Vita wasn't available until the 2022 retrial of KM. Reportedly, it was the enhanced audio to led to CA's April 20, 2022 indictment and arrest.

Take note of Judge Wheeler's ruling on the enhanced audio in 2022 (where he also rejected the admission of transcript and/or subtitles).

While I doubt any justice wants their own discretion challenged simply because another judge presiding over the same evidence ruled differently, it does confirm my feelings about defense attorney Rashbaum wanting to argue over an enhanced recording just to hear the sound of his own voice. :rolleyes:

Jury in Katherine Magbanua’s upcoming trial will see Dolce Vita video, but not transcripts or subtitles

5/9/22

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (WCTV) - A judge has ruled that the jury in Katherine Magbanua’s upcoming trial will get to see a secret FBI recording, but will not see subtitles or transcripts of the conversation.

The video features a meeting between Magbanua and Charlie Adelson at the Dolce Vita restaurant in Miami back in 2016.

The state was seeking to add subtitles and share a transcript with the jury. The defense argued those were inaccurate and misleading.

Judge Robert Wheeler ruled late last week that the expert who clarified the audio and the court reporter who transcribed it are “in no better position” than the jury to authenticate the content of the conversation.

Judge Wheeler previously ruled the tape itself — with newly enhanced audio — was trustworthy and admissible and he reiterated that in his latest ruling.

Prosecutors say the newly enhanced recording is what led to the April 20 indictment and subsequent arrest of Charlie Adelson.
 
  • #1,074
anyone here who wants to give Charlie benefit of the doubt and see how he testifies tomorrow? It seems to me everyone here screams Charlie is guilty even without his testimony
 
  • #1,075
  • #1,076
reference to CA talking about the appearance of FBI undercover agent during bump ... GC was mocking him
Considering the Agent was alleged to be impersonating a Latin King, the notion of an Abe Lincoln beard and hat is indeed mocking!
 
  • #1,077
anyone here who wants to give Charlie benefit of the doubt and see how he testifies tomorrow? It seems to me everyone here screams Charlie is guilty even without his testimony
No.

Lol

All kidding aside. I’ll listen, but after hearing the mountains of evidence I’m not sure there’s much he could say to sway my personal opinion.

There’s just no way in my mind that I can believe that the two rocket science brainiacs named Sigfredo and Luis drove all the way up to Tallahassee to kill a man they didn’t know all because Katie bragged that there was a man up there that a family had tried to bribe for a million dollars to allow his ex wife to relocate. She claims she didn’t even know Dan Markel’s name. Then the matter of the $100,000 split 3 ways. Why didn’t they just rob the Adelsons? The story makes absolutely zero sense - especially given the players in all this.
 
  • #1,078
Maybe it’s just some empathy in me but in this first proffer, Katie on the verge of tears, claiming she didn’t even know how much this all “just snowballed” from someone getting beat up to someone getting killed, and she was attracted to Charlie because Charlie was different than Sigfredo, Charlie was working, Charlie wasn’t fighting with her nonstop, Sigfredo and her were “going through so much” and Charlie was some “happy” and “stability” for her while she’s struggling and “just trying to raise her kids”.
ETA - it’s just not believable to me that SG knew it was for a murder, not some “beat this person up”, and that this whole things end in murder without KM passing on SOME sort of details to him, from Charlie….even with that “paper” she delivered

I feel bad for her, and her kids, but how much she’s claiming she “didn’t know” in this first proffer, and that she thought someone was just gonna get beat up……wow I can’t wait til he gets to post the other proffers.

(This also IMOO just bolsters what Katie said on the stand most recently, & undermines the defense even more - Katie even blurted out that she knew Charlie “trusted her”, that she “wouldn’t blackmail him” )
I find it hard to believe there was any suggestion of beating up Danny. I think it was a murder for hire discussion between Katie and Charlie from the get go. That’s just another minimization detail she’s making up. Beating up Danny would’ve guaranteed that he get full custody! JMO
 
  • #1,079
Thousands of hours of recorded calls and not one of them from Sigfredo to Charlie. Not one of them Katie threatening Charlie - except when she says she’s going to call the cops. That’s not what the actual murderers who are trying to frame someone for their crime and then extort them - do. Its “just nonsense” you might say.

Charlie is going to the big house.
 
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  • #1,080
I find it hard to believe there was any suggestion of beating up Danny. I think it was a murder for hire discussion between Katie and Charlie from the get go. That’s just another minimization detail she’s making up. Beating up Danny would’ve guaranteed that he get full custody! JMO
Same. I think that’s her minimizing it to LE because she KNOWS what she did is beyond despicable and that she is truly a horrible person and doesn’t want to admit it to anyone - including herself.

I feel sorry for her children. Did she ever think how this could impact them in the event she got caught? Did she ever think of Dan’s little boys? Never. Not once.
 
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